BigIrishDoode
Fallen Cannabis Warrior
agreed i know of what you speak its a disaster of a thread, i stay here where its safe and ppl are rational thank gowd
Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?
- Thread starter Bassman59
- Start date
Seabow - prior to end of stretch, say... up to day 21-25 bloom or so, depending on the strain, you can usually count on them to heal and right themselves back up again with a nice big knuckle where the bend was, from what I've seen so far.
After that time, you can still supercrop/bend over branches, but the plant is so focused on flowering that it may not fully heal or "right" the bend again. Still, I'd expect the buds to grow just fine, and be unaffected negatively. But, the branch will stay bent over and never fully knuckle up like bends done in veg and prior to end of stretch. I just did some experimenting with this in my last grow, as did Vick - we both came to this same conclusion and had the same results. From here on out, I'll try to keep the bends mostly to veg and the first 3 weeks of bloom, though I won't sweat it if I have to bend later - just now know that the effect will be slightly different.
Hope this helps!
Bass, is this a typo and supposed to be 32x32 square space?
I have been averaging 12-15oz out of 30x32 but with 3 to 5 plants. We like a variety and usually do a couple plants at once.
I also do a lot of LST and Supercrop also. to reach that amount, and try to keep the over crown in check.
And I have also got 12+ out of one plant in the same space. as a rookie before I really knew how resilient the plants are and bending wouldnt hurt them. I did a little LST supercrop and top combo and some defol. If I knew a little more than I might have approached 20oz as you can see in the third pic, their are empty spaces
- Thread starter
- #165
No typo HH, 32"x32" plant area. 28-32" high. These numbers are not set in stone. Everyone will be different to some degree. But it illustrates the idea of short, fat, max light throughout the zone sizing. No reason to let them grow to say 48" tall if the light only gives out good light up to 32" from the bulb. On a 4 foot plant you could have 20 inches of plant not getting nearly enough light to produce anything. Yet the plant veg'd the same time as the 32" WIDE girl getting light top-bottom.
So yes, we're employing various forms of training as well.
Your pics look great!
So yes, we're employing various forms of training as well.
Your pics look great!
spring2012
Well-Known Member
Bass, is this a typo and supposed to be 32x32 square space?
I have been averaging 12-15oz out of 30x32 but with 3 to 5 plants. We like a variety and usually do a couple plants at once.
I also do a lot of LST and Supercrop also. to reach that amount, and try to keep the over crown in check.
And I have also got 12+ out of one plant in the same space. as a rookie before I really knew how resilient the plants are and bending wouldnt hurt them. I did a little LST supercrop and top combo and some defol. If I knew a little more than I might have approached 20oz as you can see in the third pic, their are empty spaces
Nice pics and grow. I like what you have accomplished.
Smokemupm8
New Member
My grow space is nearly 9ft high and 4.5ft wide..
My last grow Cindy, grew to 6'3 in her 25cm tall pot, and was filling out the whole 4.5ft width also. I LST d her, No supercropping,or topping..
400w MH in soil, 600w HPS for flower. Now, Unfortuantely I was robbed of 2/3rds of my harvest, but my plant had at least 4 x 2ft long buds, and then about 8 1-1.5ft buds. The 4, 2ft buds yielded me over 6oz dry by themselves, So given that and what i lost, Id guess I got over 13oz dry at least from 1 plant. I had to trim fan leaves when required, and I also couldnt position 2-3 main branches well enough and they grew little colas, laughable really IMO.. But If I had the extra width - THE STORY WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT I FEEL!
Id hazard a guess to say if I was able to set Cindy out as Id liked to, she may have given me closer a pound, in 15 weeks of growing total, inc. 58 day flower period..
My current grow Ive set out nearly the same as my last grow, but I believe this is an Indica?? So maybe shorter growth wise, but she s forming nice and has some solid branches now. Ive removed 1 main branch due to crowding, and Im finding Im having to trim every 2-3days a few fans for light to shoots. I will probably remove more leaves this grow, as some buds suffered due to me being a little hesitant in trimming, but I took over 3oz of wet leaf and shoots from my last grow over its veg and flower without any noticeable effects.
Heres a couple pics of my last girl and new project..
Last grow, Cindy.
My new Gal, Kiksumass..
My last grow Cindy, grew to 6'3 in her 25cm tall pot, and was filling out the whole 4.5ft width also. I LST d her, No supercropping,or topping..
400w MH in soil, 600w HPS for flower. Now, Unfortuantely I was robbed of 2/3rds of my harvest, but my plant had at least 4 x 2ft long buds, and then about 8 1-1.5ft buds. The 4, 2ft buds yielded me over 6oz dry by themselves, So given that and what i lost, Id guess I got over 13oz dry at least from 1 plant. I had to trim fan leaves when required, and I also couldnt position 2-3 main branches well enough and they grew little colas, laughable really IMO.. But If I had the extra width - THE STORY WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT I FEEL!
Id hazard a guess to say if I was able to set Cindy out as Id liked to, she may have given me closer a pound, in 15 weeks of growing total, inc. 58 day flower period..
My current grow Ive set out nearly the same as my last grow, but I believe this is an Indica?? So maybe shorter growth wise, but she s forming nice and has some solid branches now. Ive removed 1 main branch due to crowding, and Im finding Im having to trim every 2-3days a few fans for light to shoots. I will probably remove more leaves this grow, as some buds suffered due to me being a little hesitant in trimming, but I took over 3oz of wet leaf and shoots from my last grow over its veg and flower without any noticeable effects.
Heres a couple pics of my last girl and new project..
kickensomeassforsure 
nice plants you guys. Hey bassman Im getting so saturated with info on defoliation and supercropping I am getting a little confused. I am hoping it will all get a little less overwhelming once I can take the book smarts and get some on hands time in the lab. I am away from home for 4 days (hoping I have a home and plants when we return) and as soon as we get back and the plants are big enough to take cuttings I will and asap have my journal up and do my best to show 420mag and its followers what you have taught me
Thanks again
nice plants you guys. Hey bassman Im getting so saturated with info on defoliation and supercropping I am getting a little confused. I am hoping it will all get a little less overwhelming once I can take the book smarts and get some on hands time in the lab. I am away from home for 4 days (hoping I have a home and plants when we return) and as soon as we get back and the plants are big enough to take cuttings I will and asap have my journal up and do my best to show 420mag and its followers what you have taught me Thanks again
Smokemupm8
New Member
Thanks mate, she s getting there, but doesnt look much atm. Hoping she will be bigger in few weeks, then Ill consider flowering , just have to see how big it will get in this time. May not grow that large??But yeah, some trimming is neccessary to expose some shoots..And I will continue this with all my future grows, as its way better to make sure the large cola's you want get most light.. JUST DONT GO CRAZY.. Few every other day should be ok..
And dont worry about 'Supercropping' or such mate, Unless youre prepared to use 1 as a PROJECT PLANT to test out what you can do, But IMO, using an LST method is about as complex as you should need to get. A SCROG or SOG, is KIND OF similar to an LST but with them you usually use a screen above it to grow the plant under and you remove most foliage below the screen and just let tops and buds thru for lighting.. LST is simialr in that you set your plant up so that instead of having 1 main cola on your plant as with a standard Xmas tree looking grow, the plant send auxins to the shoots and then more than 1 main cola begins to form. Suddenly, side branches are turned into Primary branches and each grows vertically as a main cola. My last grow had 13 primary main Cola's..
Its very simple to do, My first attempt I grew Cindy in soil in about 15/16weeks yielding over 12oz dry.. I did lose some weight on about 2 or 3 branches as my space wasnt wide enough toward the end of the grow and crowding caused a couple to get minimal lighting. But the rest surely made up for it..
I hindsight I should have removed more leaves for certain areas.. But you do need to do things in a certain way not just hack into your plant... Smokemup
hey guys just wanted to ask a quick question is it to early to start defoliating, these plants are about 3 1/2 weeks from seed will be vegged for another 10 days - 2 weeks, there is a few leaves i would like to take to open the plants up to light a bit more, also i mentioned here nefore i am not completely defoliating the plants just a fair amount.
heres a couple of pics, might top a few aswell.#
heres a couple of pics, might top a few aswell.#
- Thread starter
- #171
Side pics are much better to get a perspective on the branching popcorn. Off hand, without seeing the branching well, I would say it's a go on the two middle plants and the front right plant. The others may be a cpl days behind but closer side pics of them all would be easier to say.
Ill be heading home in the morning and should see some growth now that I've got the Metal Halide up and the led lights sold. 96 hours of growth ought to be a nice suprise just hoping there were no issues.
Smokemupm8
New Member
Hey mate,
IMO, they still seem a little small for trimming yet. But this is about the age where I start to LST them and once theyve set out, then I trim a fair bit, I actually just removed 5 branches and about the same in fan leaves.. Rather do it now as its still young in Veg, and then leave her be til near flower.. This is the size of my girl Im trimming just for a reference on when I usually trim regular..
Hope this helps, Smokemup
IMO, they still seem a little small for trimming yet. But this is about the age where I start to LST them and once theyve set out, then I trim a fair bit, I actually just removed 5 branches and about the same in fan leaves.. Rather do it now as its still young in Veg, and then leave her be til near flower.. This is the size of my girl Im trimming just for a reference on when I usually trim regular..
Hope this helps, Smokemup
- Thread starter
- #174
They are in no way too small to strip! Almost optimal, 3 are I'm sure but side shots would confirm, and the other 3 may possible be ready too.
Smokemup, At the stage of your two pics above, my plants would be having their second major defoliation in veg. Possibly even having finished re-leafing from it and about to go into flower.
Now mind you, this is all based on my explanation of defoliation as a technique for higher yields in a given space. Your methods will work fine, no doubt. But I was responding to the poster's question in the context of this thread. So as to not miss lead him. I know you dont mean to miss lead either. But with limited space, waiting too long to defoliate, doing it heavy like this thread suggests, then again, in veg, and maintaining the suggested cycle, will give that person plants that will be way too huge for his light. Again, in the context of this thread.
Smokemup, At the stage of your two pics above, my plants would be having their second major defoliation in veg. Possibly even having finished re-leafing from it and about to go into flower.
Now mind you, this is all based on my explanation of defoliation as a technique for higher yields in a given space. Your methods will work fine, no doubt. But I was responding to the poster's question in the context of this thread. So as to not miss lead him. I know you dont mean to miss lead either. But with limited space, waiting too long to defoliate, doing it heavy like this thread suggests, then again, in veg, and maintaining the suggested cycle, will give that person plants that will be way too huge for his light. Again, in the context of this thread.
Smokemupm8
New Member
Yeah fair enough Bassman Thats one aspect I was going to touch on - I have removed some fans @ this stage for lighting to the primary shoots below, say maybe the 2nd or 3rd pair of fans down from the top, I DO KNOW PEOPLE SIMILAR TO YOURSELF< who start to defoliate and such from the early stages, thats fine, Each to their own!
- So yeah, I wasnt trying to say its not possible, or NOT TO TRIM EARLY, but was just showing my growing style as a point of reference..
See, I am a soil grower, who usually Veg's a plant until its 3-4ft tall, then Ill flower it. Resulting in 5-7ft plant..
I grow a single plant p/grow, and i try to get the most from my space too, so my style is applicable to me, But for me, with my LIMITED experience with LST and trimming/branch removal, I tend to maybe be a little more on the ' careful ' side of things, and like my plant to be fairly established before Ill start trimming it. During the Veg stage I find is the best time for defoliation, and I like to stagger what I take, so not totally stripping branches of pairs of fans, but taking 1 on either branch to allow lighting to where needed most. They will grow out well usually and a day or so later cant tell its been done!!
In nature plants are prepared in some sense for leaf loss, and they repair and bend n move towards light like there s no tomorrow.
So the regenerative side is quite good, But I try not to risk a Hermie, and if the leaves need to be taken as there s no room, or blocking shoots light etc; then so be it.. I have taken a fair amount of leaf and branch material throughout my last LST attempt, and I should have taken a little more possibly had I known some buds wouldve suffered, tho my plant was showing some Defic. signs and thats what I concentrated on for a while, And it was sort of neccessary for me to leave some dying leaves intact as she was still finishing up n using nutes..
This grow, Ive been alot more aggressive, taking branches and fans now way more than I have before, she seems to be ok with it thus far, she has only just recently showed the starts of her 2 pre-hairs from the single pistil at the stalk/Stem joint, I hope she will stay a she!!
I think I may have nearly Hermied my last as I saw a few BANANA's I think they were, forming on some bud sites.. Bloody Banana's I aint in Queensland... But she was like @ day 54 flower or so when I saw one, so too late prob to do any damage, but its no surprise after what she was put thru near the end!!
Anyways, Yes, I need to make most of my yield from each plant in a limited space. Though I do not use a SCROG,screen etc; Lst is the best for me. Depending on how many she keeps going, but Im already over 10 possible primary branches, Id actually like to keep it to around 10, as I had about 13/14 with my last and a few got smothered by the size of the buds above.. So Im trying to focus attention onto the most dominant branches and again, these will form the bulk of my yield. From each plant Ive grown in soil in about say 15/16 weeks, Ive gotten about 8oz dry p/plant or more.. This time frame maybe a few weeks longer than most growers, but I like my plant to strong, healthy and nicely formed before I flower it. I was thinking of doing a 12 week grow, 6 wk Veg and flower.. IF THIS GROW GETS BIG ENOUGH IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS I MAY BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE CLOSE TO THIS?? As im into bout week 4 now.. But I think this may grow a little slower, this maybe an INDICA, so may grow slower or smaller, not sure, but Ive set her up and how ever long it takes her to get a little height well Ill have to take it as it comes..
So there are definately benefits for removing some foliage, But I do say that with the added - Done selectively and with direction, as I DO NOT HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC BACKUP OR AMAZING THEORY FOR MY POST, Just my observations and thoughts from ppl who ve done similar, and have seen the growth/response to heavy trimming or total stripping of a plants foliage..
I dont mean to cause a big debate guys?? SORRY!! Many growers have totally stripped plant and grown buds so plants can do it! Im a big softy when it comes to my weed, just cant bring myself to chop em up.. BUT sometimes its - TOUGH LOVE
Anyways whatever one chooses to do, just make sure you have the basics right first then if you are a first timer, maybe do bit of research or if youve got someone u can trust help guide you, and from there if youre confidant GO FOR IT!! I DOVE IN HEAD FIRST AND LOVED IT!!! But I didnt over step my abilities as I have no one for guidance of late, except for the guys here Theyve saved my butt once or twice!!
GOODLUCK AND GOOD GANJA GROWING GUYS
Smokemup
Thats one aspect I was going to touch on - I have removed some fans @ this stage for lighting to the primary shoots below, say maybe the 2nd or 3rd pair of fans down from the top, I DO KNOW PEOPLE SIMILAR TO YOURSELF< who start to defoliate and such from the early stages, thats fine, Each to their own! - So yeah, I wasnt trying to say its not possible, or NOT TO TRIM EARLY, but was just showing my growing style as a point of reference..See, I am a soil grower, who usually Veg's a plant until its 3-4ft tall, then Ill flower it. Resulting in 5-7ft plant..
I grow a single plant p/grow, and i try to get the most from my space too, so my style is applicable to me, But for me, with my LIMITED experience with LST and trimming/branch removal, I tend to maybe be a little more on the ' careful ' side of things, and like my plant to be fairly established before Ill start trimming it. During the Veg stage I find is the best time for defoliation, and I like to stagger what I take, so not totally stripping branches of pairs of fans, but taking 1 on either branch to allow lighting to where needed most. They will grow out well usually and a day or so later cant tell its been done!!
In nature plants are prepared in some sense for leaf loss, and they repair and bend n move towards light like there s no tomorrow.
So the regenerative side is quite good, But I try not to risk a Hermie, and if the leaves need to be taken as there s no room, or blocking shoots light etc; then so be it.. I have taken a fair amount of leaf and branch material throughout my last LST attempt, and I should have taken a little more possibly had I known some buds wouldve suffered, tho my plant was showing some Defic. signs and thats what I concentrated on for a while, And it was sort of neccessary for me to leave some dying leaves intact as she was still finishing up n using nutes..
This grow, Ive been alot more aggressive, taking branches and fans now way more than I have before, she seems to be ok with it thus far, she has only just recently showed the starts of her 2 pre-hairs from the single pistil at the stalk/Stem joint, I hope she will stay a she!!
I think I may have nearly Hermied my last as I saw a few BANANA's I think they were, forming on some bud sites.. Bloody Banana's
I aint in Queensland... But she was like @ day 54 flower or so when I saw one, so too late prob to do any damage, but its no surprise after what she was put thru near the end!!Anyways, Yes, I need to make most of my yield from each plant in a limited space. Though I do not use a SCROG,screen etc; Lst is the best for me. Depending on how many she keeps going, but Im already over 10 possible primary branches, Id actually like to keep it to around 10, as I had about 13/14 with my last and a few got smothered by the size of the buds above.. So Im trying to focus attention onto the most dominant branches and again, these will form the bulk of my yield. From each plant Ive grown in soil in about say 15/16 weeks, Ive gotten about 8oz dry p/plant or more.. This time frame maybe a few weeks longer than most growers, but I like my plant to strong, healthy and nicely formed before I flower it. I was thinking of doing a 12 week grow, 6 wk Veg and flower.. IF THIS GROW GETS BIG ENOUGH IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS I MAY BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE CLOSE TO THIS?? As im into bout week 4 now.. But I think this may grow a little slower, this maybe an INDICA, so may grow slower or smaller, not sure, but Ive set her up and how ever long it takes her to get a little height well Ill have to take it as it comes..
So there are definately benefits for removing some foliage, But I do say that with the added - Done selectively and with direction, as I DO NOT HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC BACKUP OR AMAZING THEORY FOR MY POST, Just my observations and thoughts from ppl who ve done similar, and have seen the growth/response to heavy trimming or total stripping of a plants foliage..
I dont mean to cause a big debate guys?? SORRY!! Many growers have totally stripped plant and grown buds so plants can do it! Im a big softy when it comes to my weed, just cant bring myself to chop em up.. BUT sometimes its - TOUGH LOVE
Anyways whatever one chooses to do, just make sure you have the basics right first then if you are a first timer, maybe do bit of research or if youve got someone u can trust help guide you, and from there if youre confidant GO FOR IT!! I DOVE IN HEAD FIRST AND LOVED IT!!! But I didnt over step my abilities as I have no one for guidance of late, except for the guys here
Theyve saved my butt once or twice!!GOODLUCK AND GOOD GANJA GROWING GUYS
Smokemuphey guys just wanted to ask a quick question is it to early to start defoliating, these plants are about 3 1/2 weeks from seed will be vegged for another 10 days - 2 weeks, there is a few leaves i would like to take to open the plants up to light a bit more, also i mentioned here nefore i am not completely defoliating the plants just a fair amount.
heres a couple of pics, might top a few aswell.#
sry for the late response, net was down for a while.
it all depends on what method of defoliation your using i.e phased or continuous. Bassman has given the advice i was expecting...( i love it when someone is consistent) I however am MUCH more aggresive on defol than bassman and my answer would be that each plant looks like it has at least 8 leaves too many
i cut em all off with regular plants ( i use a single phase now with autos, right at the transition between veg and flower). all i leave using either method is the growing shoots and enough stalk from each leaf to prevent its future bud site from drying and dying.
This grow, Ive been alot more aggressive, taking branches and fans now way more than I have before, she seems to be ok with it thus far, she has only just recently showed the starts of her 2 pre-hairs from the single pistil at the stalk/Stem joint, I hope she will stay a she!!
I think I may have nearly Hermied my last as I saw a few BANANA's I think they were, forming on some bud sites.. Bloody Banana's
Anyways, Yes, I need to make most of my yield from each plant in a limited space. Though I do not use a SCROG,screen etc; /snip
dont all regular females go hermie if left to over ripen?
i dont know what the flowering time is on your strain, but ive personally never had one that needed that long(yep i know there are some 10 week strains that exisit out there). hell my autos were harvested less than two weeks more than that amount of days
Smokemupm8
New Member
Yeah some flower in 35-45 days, This C99xPR has a 75 day flower period, I pulled her about day 60, Due to damage..
- Thread starter
- #178
@Smokemupm8,
You're getting good overall yield results. A good job indeed.
Some thoughts to consider. The idea of this is for those with real height and area or plant limitations, to get the best possible yield without harming the quality of the plant. I've never once seen nor heard of a single hermie from defoliation. It just doesn't happen. The times where there was a hermie, never was defoliation the cause. There were always other issues involved. Oh I'm sure it's possible that a grow was perfect and a defoliated plant hermied. But you can bet and give 8:1 odds it came from a hermie plant/seed/clone.
Also, we're really trying to make nothing but bud from top to bottom. We aren't just taking care of the main cola's. For those of us NOT doing vert lighting, our goal is to maximize light penetration throughout the light's entire useable range. For a 1k watt light as an example, this is about a 36" distance from the bulb. Anything further just won't get enough light. But if we get this good light to EVERYTHING between, we will see the results!
For the vert grower, he's getting his penetration from the side. But each plant is often surrounded by lights too, so while defoliation works well for him/her, generally speaking, they don't have to penetrate 36". Often more like 24" or so to get to the middle. I am of the belief that anyone growing plants taller than 36" should be using vertical lighting, even if the do not apply this technique. Now this belief is strictly based on a desire to maximize yield. I could care less about one single two liter size cola. Imho, huge colas are for outdoors and/or ego feeding. Sure we like big buds, but we're not focusing on monster colas here.
My current grow is in day 46 of flower, on a roughly 60-70 day strain (indica dom). Trichomes are clear, but shaped nicely like big ole mushroom heads. I still vegged them 2-3 inches too tall and the result is while the mid sections are really nice, the absolute bottoms are not quite up to par and because of height adjustment issues with the 1k light, the outsides are getting a little bit less light than I would like. Each strain will stretch a little bit differently in those first 21 days or so of 12/12. Once we learn the strain well, we can dial in our veg period to maximize the value of the light(s). I don't care what strain it is, the maximum value of the light for me is in the 7"-36" range and theorhetically only in 10"-36" range but this may vary with hoods, fans, etc.
Understanding that we're manipulating the plants to be optimal to the light FIRST, I think is the key. If a person has a 600w light for example, his depth of good light will only be to about 29" from the bulb. Subtract about 6" for "too close" and our plant height limitation for best range of light is now 23". To take things a step further, we look at our reflector hoods! HUGE important issue here! If our hood is too narrow, then we can't get a proper spread of light. I had this issue with my last hood. Even though I had 1k hps, my hood was not able to offer the light wide enough when the plants were at optimal max height. The cure for this is either fewer plants in the same sq footage, or a wider hood or another light. It wouldn't matter if the light was a 2k watt hps. If the hood is too narrow, the light wont get to the wider plant(s).
So we determine how to maximize based on our equipment first! Then strain and methods. In the end, it will probably take a few grows of same strain and methods to dial in perfect timing, size, and optimal width. I firmly believe, with height & plant limitations, doing anything but vertical lighting, our best yield comes from getting max light to every square inch of useable light and filling those square inches with flowers rather than leaves.
While these pics do not show much at all in terms of depth, I just took them today for my journal. But what you can see is very few fan leaves with stems on the buds. Once the stem is long enough to clip with my fingernails w/o nipping the buds or thus knocking off trichomes it's gone. In the end, the lower range of the plant gets more light to the flowers.
You're getting good overall yield results. A good job indeed.
Some thoughts to consider. The idea of this is for those with real height and area or plant limitations, to get the best possible yield without harming the quality of the plant. I've never once seen nor heard of a single hermie from defoliation. It just doesn't happen. The times where there was a hermie, never was defoliation the cause. There were always other issues involved. Oh I'm sure it's possible that a grow was perfect and a defoliated plant hermied. But you can bet and give 8:1 odds it came from a hermie plant/seed/clone.
Also, we're really trying to make nothing but bud from top to bottom. We aren't just taking care of the main cola's. For those of us NOT doing vert lighting, our goal is to maximize light penetration throughout the light's entire useable range. For a 1k watt light as an example, this is about a 36" distance from the bulb. Anything further just won't get enough light. But if we get this good light to EVERYTHING between, we will see the results!
For the vert grower, he's getting his penetration from the side. But each plant is often surrounded by lights too, so while defoliation works well for him/her, generally speaking, they don't have to penetrate 36". Often more like 24" or so to get to the middle. I am of the belief that anyone growing plants taller than 36" should be using vertical lighting, even if the do not apply this technique. Now this belief is strictly based on a desire to maximize yield. I could care less about one single two liter size cola. Imho, huge colas are for outdoors and/or ego feeding. Sure we like big buds, but we're not focusing on monster colas here.
My current grow is in day 46 of flower, on a roughly 60-70 day strain (indica dom). Trichomes are clear, but shaped nicely like big ole mushroom heads. I still vegged them 2-3 inches too tall and the result is while the mid sections are really nice, the absolute bottoms are not quite up to par and because of height adjustment issues with the 1k light, the outsides are getting a little bit less light than I would like. Each strain will stretch a little bit differently in those first 21 days or so of 12/12. Once we learn the strain well, we can dial in our veg period to maximize the value of the light(s). I don't care what strain it is, the maximum value of the light for me is in the 7"-36" range and theorhetically only in 10"-36" range but this may vary with hoods, fans, etc.
Understanding that we're manipulating the plants to be optimal to the light FIRST, I think is the key. If a person has a 600w light for example, his depth of good light will only be to about 29" from the bulb. Subtract about 6" for "too close" and our plant height limitation for best range of light is now 23". To take things a step further, we look at our reflector hoods! HUGE important issue here! If our hood is too narrow, then we can't get a proper spread of light. I had this issue with my last hood. Even though I had 1k hps, my hood was not able to offer the light wide enough when the plants were at optimal max height. The cure for this is either fewer plants in the same sq footage, or a wider hood or another light. It wouldn't matter if the light was a 2k watt hps. If the hood is too narrow, the light wont get to the wider plant(s).
So we determine how to maximize based on our equipment first! Then strain and methods. In the end, it will probably take a few grows of same strain and methods to dial in perfect timing, size, and optimal width. I firmly believe, with height & plant limitations, doing anything but vertical lighting, our best yield comes from getting max light to every square inch of useable light and filling those square inches with flowers rather than leaves.
While these pics do not show much at all in terms of depth, I just took them today for my journal. But what you can see is very few fan leaves with stems on the buds. Once the stem is long enough to clip with my fingernails w/o nipping the buds or thus knocking off trichomes it's gone. In the end, the lower range of the plant gets more light to the flowers.
i still see a lot of shade makers there.
have you yet tried ignoring the stems that you cant get at and going at the leaf directly...like if you can only cut the fingers of the leaf, do it anyway.
im still doing the same as you atm, ie as soon as i can get at the stem, off it goes, but im thinking of going even more agressive.
by the time i harvested my fastbuds they needed NO manicuring as i had already done it while they were alive...but not in such a way as to track and monitor any benefit/loss of production.
have you yet tried ignoring the stems that you cant get at and going at the leaf directly...like if you can only cut the fingers of the leaf, do it anyway.
im still doing the same as you atm, ie as soon as i can get at the stem, off it goes, but im thinking of going even more agressive.
by the time i harvested my fastbuds they needed NO manicuring as i had already done it while they were alive...but not in such a way as to track and monitor any benefit/loss of production.
- Thread starter
- #180
As I learned about the method, we don't pull the sugar leaves (the smaller leaves with no stem) and we pluck fans once they have a stem we can grab. So that's what I'm doing. There is one big ole cola in the back that has lots of long skinny leaves. But no stems really sticking out. Yet they are also spaced out a bunch and because of the angle from the light, they are not shading lower buds. So I haven't touched them. I also tend to be a little lazy and less ocd, and go in and yank when I can get many handfuls rather than just a cpl.