Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?

Awesome Job BassMan...:bravo:

I have been following your thread and have philosophized while wrapping my head around your science since it was posted. I like what you have set out to do and all I can say is that you are spot on with your research.

What has sold me is the fact that for us Hydro peeps, we have a dialed in our system with a constant supply of healthy nutes, light, ventilation, temps and humidity for our babies, so it makes perfect sense to bypass the middle man (foliage). But as you said, the system must be dialed in..

Since you have several runs under your belt, I would like to propose a question in which I am sure you can answer, however I am still a little leery on.

How do you approach the flushing stage? As there are several schools of thought on that subject, my concern is that since we are not using the plants built in "banking" system for nutes/H2O, there is less nutes for the plant to consume during the flushing/pre-harvest phase, thus minimizing or possibly eliminating the need for flushing?

Part of me says yes we should still flush to an extent, but there must be a limitation to when more harm is done than good. Much like the human body, we pull from our fat storage when fasting, however once that storage is gone (0% body fat) then we start to break down and consume muscle. Thus the reason for my question as you can see, we dont want our babies consuming the very thing we are trying to maximize.

Thanks again for your great insight and keep up the awesome work..:goodjob:
 
@PG,

Let me be the first to welcome you to 420mag! I'm honored your 1st post is in this thread and with a well thought out question.

I tend to "turn down" the nutes during the last two weeks by just adding straight ph adjusted ro water. As we get closer to our harvest day based on trichome color, we have to try to time it a little. We may need to take out some water because it isnt thin enough (say 200ppm or over) and then add back straight ro water, or do a drain and replenish. But the final goal for me is going to have to be about a week of sub 200 ppm.

But I'm not dialed in on this part yet. My last harvest does have a bit of unwanted taste to it. I could have let it go a couple more days or thinned it more, slightly earlier.

Now for me, the hard part is I can only go by what a couple friends tell me. I don't smoke, I treat my mother with this. So I have to see what they say and try to get a feel for it.

Lest we forget, there are still a reasonable amount of leaves even at harvest time. Sugar leaves basically, and a few fans. Just not the overabundance of predefoliation.
 
@Bassman

Thank you for the warm welcome and praise for the question.

Your answer is exactly what I was looking for:

Bassman59 said:
But the final goal for me is going to have to be about a week of sub 200 ppm.
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However I am a bit surprised that even with this defoliation technique we still want a sub 200 ppm for a week. By no means am I saying that is wrong as I do concur that there are are still some "storage facilities" on our babies, it just seemed that flushing would be minimized a bit. The recipients of your labor are very knowledgeable, keep them close as when the time comes and this process in 100% dialed in, they will be the happiest people you know and very grateful for all your hard work.

You are definitely on the right track and I applaud you for your outstanding research, science and most importantly the patience skills that are required to step out of the proven box and make a better and greater growing box...:bravo:
 
Will this method work in soil grow, I'm growing 2 grass o matic max gom and one blue widow, can I expect to get Abigail yield off of this technique?
 
Hey Bassman, can you tell us what strains other than the master kush, kosher kush that you have either grown RDWC style or thought might work well with defoliation? I am looking for some data to help me choose a sativa strain as it helps me alot more than the idicas. Been wanting to try Bay 11. I do have a g13 labs "Raw Diesel" growing right now thats supposed to be a sativa dominant hybrid. It's growing a little to lanky for my likes but I think with some training, and some extra love that it would work. Of course I will be mirroring your defoliation methods to my best ability and I will also journal it from start to finish to help others learn this state of the art growing style.
 
Hi guys,
My grow just finished, was my first LST. It was a C99xPR and i started light training of it at about 2 .5weeks? Anyway, she blew up!!
I vegged her for about 6 weeks and flowered her for 58 days. She grew to 6'3 in her 25cm pot, and 4.5ft wide, in soil - No Co2 etc;, she ended up making 13 Primary colas growing vertically. I tethered them as best i could but some got blocked out as i had very large foxtails over 2ft each and other s over 1ft. Anyway, i had probs with light in her centre and certain bud sites, so i had to trim her a bit to achieve a good yield.
All up, i removed over 3oz of wet material from her and she didnt hermie on me,and produced well.
This current grow im experimenting with a little early defoliation and then some minor LST to place branches is the best position to grow well..
Ill be starting a journal soon, but yeah, I lost most of my last harvest to Burglars - they took nearly everything - BUT left my 2ft buds?? Now dry and cured a bit, they weighed over 6.5oz dry. So my total harvest would have been over 110z dry for sure..
Ill add a link to my new journal once its up n running... But IMO, some minor defoliation, done correctly and selectively will benefit growth of your Primary cola's that are under direct light. I dont like Stripping/lollipopping i know it can be good but i dont use those methods..
Here s a pic of my last girl Cindy. And some buds from harvest, ones hanging upside down on hanger were ones they left me?? Stupid..
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Thanks guys.. Smokemup...Take care and Happy toking;)
 
That's an incredible grow; do you have any lessons learned about the burglary? Besides sucking and making you feel like shit, I mean. I have been there, but not in a very long time. I think we all take security for granted too often.n I hope you recover from the loss.
 
Arizonameds said:
Hey Bassman, can you tell us what strains other than the master kush, kosher kush that you have either grown RDWC style or thought might work well with defoliation? I am looking for some data to help me choose a sativa strain as it helps me alot more than the idicas. Been wanting to try Bay 11. I do have a g13 labs "Raw Diesel" growing right now thats supposed to be a sativa dominant hybrid. It's growing a little to lanky for my likes but I think with some training, and some extra love that it would work. Of course I will be mirroring your defoliation methods to my best ability and I will also journal it from start to finish to help others learn this state of the art growing style.
Click to expand...

Those mentioned are my only personal experience. I've never grown sativa strains. I have height limitations. I know that can be overcome with shorter veg, but with the tall lankyness nature I don't think I could get what I need out of them without going over plant limitations.

Maybe grow one as a mother, topping often, then the clones would be tighter nodes, and topping those and maybe it would make for short node spacing? But I can't say for sure.
 
Arizonameds said:
Hey Bassman, can you tell us what strains other than the master kush, kosher kush that you have either grown RDWC style or thought might work well with defoliation? I am looking for some data to help me choose a sativa strain as it helps me alot more than the idicas. Been wanting to try Bay 11. I do have a g13 labs "Raw Diesel" growing right now thats supposed to be a sativa dominant hybrid. It's growing a little to lanky for my likes but I think with some training, and some extra love that it would work. Of course I will be mirroring your defoliation methods to my best ability and I will also journal it from start to finish to help others learn this state of the art growing style.
Click to expand...

i know its not quite what you want, but i myself am a sativa man. i am about to start an auto grow with a brazilian sativa x russian ruderalis (auto equiv of a landrace afaik).

anyway, i will be running extensive tests on defoliation with this strain, from hardcore "leaf! kill it!" approach to defoling once per grow e.t.c
as i say, its not quite what your after, but its strain review tells us its a 7 footer indoor like a typical sativa.


i dont put too much stock in the 'its an auto dont defo' mentality because well, lets be honest. russia has plant grazing animals like everywhere else, i believe a plant can get used to being eaten.

chop all the leaves off in a day and you get shock, nibble a little bit here and there and you get adaptation..thats the theory ill be testing ;)
 
Yeah im in the process of finding all involved, and as i was fortunate enough to be left some buds im going to use that as to benefit me, by giving someone an Oz for info:) Youll be amazed what people will do once they have nothing and get an offer they cant refuse..
Ive been having a few run ins with people and the whole town is very quiet atm.. Ill find out in good time.. Thanks for the great comments mate... Take it easy, Smokemup..
 
Smokemupm8 said:
Hi guys,
My grow just finished, was my first LST. It was a C99xPR and i started light training of it at about 2 .5weeks? Anyway, she blew up!!
I vegged her for about 6 weeks and flowered her for 58 days. She grew to 6'3 in her 25cm pot, and 4.5ft wide, in soil - No Co2 etc;, she ended up making 13 Primary colas growing vertically. I tethered them as best i could but some got blocked out as i had very large foxtails over 2ft each and other s over 1ft. Anyway, i had probs with light in her centre and certain bud sites, so i had to trim her a bit to achieve a good yield.
All up, i removed over 3oz of wet material from her and she didnt hermie on me,and produced well.
This current grow im experimenting with a little early defoliation and then some minor LST to place branches is the best position to grow well..
Ill be starting a journal soon, but yeah, I lost most of my last harvest to Burglars - they took nearly everything - BUT left my 2ft buds?? Now dry and cured a bit, they weighed over 6.5oz dry. So my total harvest would have been over 110z dry for sure..
Ill add a link to my new journal once its up n running... But IMO, some minor defoliation, done correctly and selectively will benefit growth of your Primary cola's that are under direct light. I dont like Stripping/lollipopping i know it can be good but i dont use those methods..
Here s a pic of my last girl Cindy. And some buds from harvest, ones hanging upside down on hanger were ones they left me?? Stupid..
Click to expand...

Omg, that is ridiculous. Absolutely beautiful! What type of light do you use?
 
Bassman59 said:
New strain name: Butterfly Shit Bud
Click to expand...
:rofl:

you send in the wasps way before they start to flower. this idea is primarily for LARGE long veg grows.

defoliation is amazing...period.

but our current methods do not scale well.
imagine trying to apply your defoliation style to 3 metre monsters by the acre...im just thinking outside the box to scale things up.
its just a first idea on the table, any ideas that could scale up are most welcome by anyone that can :)
 
hey BassMan59 what do you think:?? Grand Daddy Purp creator Ken Estes introduces his new break out Sativa strain "Bay 11" and captures top honours at the 2011 High Times Cannabis Cup Awards!

This is truly an amazing Sativa strain of medical marijuana that because of it’s ability to cut through to what ails you, is quickly becoming a collective favourite among patients. It is a full-bodied in odour, flavour and effect.

Thick and sticky this colourful strain provides a unique richness of experience that is missing in so many other medical strains. Its thick and dense buds grow in perfect formation and are, simply put, wonderful to look at! Every nugget is made up of two beautiful shades of pale green splattered with golden rod spots and covered in crystals. Each and every one packs a giant amount of milky to amber trichomes that are soaking into every nook and cranny.

There’s very little leaf on each bud and its thick coating of resin, makes this a true connoisseur’s delight. This superior strain is a great daytime medicine with a slightly sweet distinct recognisable odour, and an extremely smooth clean taste. Its fruity flavour plant has a high pistil-to-leaf ratio that makes smoking it a treat as well as a true validation to the strength and beauty of this variety.

Our Grand Daddy Bay 11′s medicinal properties include helping with sleeping disorders and pain-relieving attributes. It is also proven effective in treating of appetite, and is ranked as one of the hottest new medical strains to acquire.

Indoor Specifications
Height: 3-4' (90-120cm)
Flowering: 9-10 weeks from start to finish
Yield: 2-2.5lbs (900-1100g) per light

Outdoor Specifications
Height: 7-10' (2-3m)
Flowering: 10 weeks
Plant: June 1st
Finish: End of October
Yield: 3-5lbs (1.3-2.3kg) per plant

hope i didn't just break rules by copying and pasting this, just want your opinion if you'd attempt this strain if you were me? lol be glad your not lmao
 
As with anything there is a certain amount of sales pitch to weed through. I take the sales pitches with a grain of salt. I look at reviews and try to decide from there. I find that reviews can also be somewhat distinguishable from adult experienced growers/users to kids too. Based on sentence structure and words used. Then I again weed out the kids.

It sounds like a great plant and the reputation of Ken Estes and GDP is already good.

But for me I still worry about height issues. We used to love sativas back in my younger years of recreational use. If I was growing outside I wouldn't hesitate.
 
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