In The Lab

[Bchris22]

Doc,

Sorry to put this in the journal, but I don't meet the requirements to respond to your PM. This could be user error, but I tried to email you a few times. I keep getting a delivery error due to recipients domain. Was there an error in the spelling??

 

[Doc Bud]

Doc,

Sorry to put this in the journal, but I don't meet the requirements to respond to your PM. This could be user error, but I tried to email you a few times. I keep getting a delivery error due to recipients domain. Was there an error in the spelling??

Check PM's again.

 

[Curso]

Guys I think we're looking at this whole recycling post the wrong way. Use that as a guideline for you to make work for you. That is what works for me. You very well could do it another way. That's how I have had success and shared it. It's not a "rule by Hoyle" its just an outline of how I treat my soil. We can do it different ways and accomplish the same thing. There are just a few conditions that need to be met.

 

[Bchris22]

It looks like it finally went through. I am trying to avoid putting my email in a public forum but if you don't receive it let me know and I will post it.

 

[slowgro]

Ditto. But it's all just evidence that I need to make things clearer.

Perhaps phrase the question like this:

After using your kit for one grow, what supplies would I need from you to reuse that soil for a second grow. Would I need another full kit including amendment, or just the root zone, sprays and drenches?

Duggan, CascadianDank, and I are sure Curso has not said to use another round of amendment #1 for that first reuse - just tune. Yet tavoso continues to be sure he should add it, and castings. That is the only confusion we're trying to get settled.

Even more simply: To reuse 1st run soil, do I need another bag of amendment #1?

 

[CascadianDank]

Im actually kinda confused myself now to be honest.

Yesterday I got likes and reps for my post quoting Curso's original recycle post which was pretty clear on how he does his soil.Doc has said twice since that he endorses Curso's method.

Now both of you liked Tavosvos post that basically tells me Im wrong in my post #558 which points out where he is not on the same page as the 2 of you.

I really dont see how much clearer Doc or Curso could be with their own posts but you guys liked a post that has contradicting quotes in it about how you do things. Post #559 above by Tavosvo has a quote by Tavosvo himself saying that first RECYCLE,which would be his 2nd run, to add the kit. Then run that soil 2 times before adding the 2nd amendment and fresh bag of soil to what would be his 4th run. The bottom quote by Curso in the same post says to use the 2nd amendment after the 2nd run which would be for the 3rd run.

If Im wrong or out of line here please say so and Ill ask for all my posts related to the subject to be removed but I feel that if someone is trying to help teach someone else about anything then they should fully understand what it is they are trying to teach before spreading misinformation and then telling someone else they are wrong when pointing out the mistake made.

Maybe its just a matter of type error and Im way off here IDK but there is clearly a difference in method in the 2 quotes.

 

[PakaloloHawaii]

Ok one more time:

We use regular kit amendment for the first recycle. Treat the soil as if it's new out of the bag. Then after using that soil the second time, there is a different amendment designed to set up the third run.

There are two kits. Let's call then #1 and #2.

First run: New bale of promix + EWC + # 1
Second run: same used bale of promix + EWC + #1
Third run : same used bale of promix + extra promix + EWC + #2

Tuning the soil (adding leaf scraps) can be done to any of these runs!

That is the method I would use to recycle. Both doc and curso have confirmed that it is correct. I hope this clears any confusion.

 

[Graytail]

I've been waiting to pipe up until things were clear, but they're not getting clear. The question I have is whether we add amendment for every run. Adding #2 after the second run is clear.

I've been adding a single pot portion of amendment when I dump the used soil back into the bin, so I've added amendment and recharge for each run.

Some explanations don't seem to include more amendment after the first run. I'm getting low brix readings, and too much amendment could explain that.

So ... do we add amendment after every run or not?

 

[PakaloloHawaii]

I've been waiting to pipe up until things were clear, but they're not getting clear. The question I have is whether we add amendment for every run. Adding #2 after the second run is clear.

I've been adding a single pot portion of amendment when I dump the used soil back into the bin, so I've added amendment and recharge for each run.

Some explanations don't seem to include more amendment after the first run. I'm getting low brix readings, and too much amendment could explain that.

So ... do we add amendment after every run or not?

Not sure about adding the amendment as you accumulate soil..I just wait till it have a full bales worth then amend and cook.

The way I understand cursos recycle is that yes, we add amendment for the first three times we use the soil. First two times is regular kit amendment, third time is a different mix I've called #2. After we've used this same bale of soil three times, the next run doesn't require any ammendmend, just tuning with leaves and root zone.

Which brings be to a question I have, how much root zone to use while tuning? I've been tossing my pile of leaves in there, about once a week, and I add somewhere between one teaspoon and one tablespoon of root zone on top and lightly mix. I'm not worried about not enough as I am of too much. But I think I'm safe at the level I'm using. Curso?

 

[CascadianDank]

Tavosvo I never said you were wrong. The point Im trying to make is that what you are saying and what Curso said in this post

In The Lab

are not the same thing. Either one might work but they are not the same directions for recycling your soil. That is where the confusion came from as far as I can tell so I was just making a point that people should go back and re read before making rude comments, which I did before making my comment to you.

I dont even use the kit yet so Ill just go back to lurking on this thread and not try to help anymore

 

[Duggan]

Tavosvo I never said you were wrong. The point Im trying to make is that what you are saying and what Curso said in this post

In The Lab

are not the same thing. Either one might work but they are not the same directions for recycling your soil. That is where the confusion came from as far as I can tell so I was just making a point that people should go back and re read before making rude comments, which I did before making my comment to you.

I dont even use the kit yet so Ill just go back to lurking on this thread and not try to help anymore

That's OK Cas. you don't have to leave...All you want is clarification on something we are all trying to understand. Doc has even said himself that much clearer instructions are needed. It will all happen in time i'm sure.This is all still very new and we are all learning the H.B. ropes so to speak.I think it's just how each person interprets what is said.I'l try again...let me know if it's clear...OK? When you use the soil for the second time don't add anything (except scraps if you wish) just let it rip. When you use it a third time ,add second run amendment and scraps again.This is how i understand it for the first three runs! Cheers!

 

[PakaloloHawaii]

No bro pretty sure I got it right. We use regular kit amendment for the first recycle. Treat the soil as if it's new out of the bag. Then after using that soil the second time, there is a different amendment designed to set up the third run.

Tavosvo I never said you were wrong. The point Im trying to make is that what you are saying and what Curso said in this post

In The Lab

are not the same thing. Either one might work but they are not the same directions for recycling your soil. That is where the confusion came from as far as I can tell so I was just making a point that people should go back and re read before making rude comments, which I did before making my comment to you.

I dont even use the kit yet so Ill just go back to lurking on this thread and not try to help anymore

Brother, I think the confusion comes from the fact that curso and I are saying the same thing!

After we've used our soil the first time, we need to amend it before using it a second time.

I believe Curso's reference to the 2nd run and "letting her rip", was about "tuning" the soil. And that it would be 100% better if you do, but isn't necessary.

I encourage you to use the kit. It doesn't take rocket science to use, but reading between the lines, thinking critically, and asking informed questions, like you have done, are key attributes of a successful high brixer IMO.

 

[Doc Bud]

Funny thing is both ways would probably work OK.

And recycling soil is quite risky. One outbreak of mold or insect attack and you must toss the whole mess and start over. Of course, with risk often comes reward and really good soil is worth the risk for some, perhaps not for all.

I'm happy with two runs on mine right now, because although it's more expensive for me this way, it's a time saver. I take soil that's been used exactly once, amend it with slightly less amendment than a first time amendment, add some worm castings and leaf scraps, some Roots and let it re-cook.

After the second run, I start over, because it just mechanically fits into my time and space better. I have a constant turnover of plants usually and have all kinds of trash cans full of soil lying around.....I need 4-5 cans for each "run," in order to keep things going and recycling past run 3 means more cans and less free space.....and that doesn't fit my plans just yet.

 

[CascadianDank]

At Doc's request here is how to "tune" your soil.



No problem...I'll do my best to make sense of it ...one more bong rip ...there we go..

Now that I'm good and baked and coughed myself into remembering I have broken ribs...I can explain this I think.

Lets start with explaining what I do. I add my "scrap" any plant matter I am not going to use as medicine gets recycled into my soil (aside from thick woody stems). It can be fresh or dry, I try to get it in there fresh. But it honestly doesn't matter. I add a handful of Root zone cover it with soil and water it. We will call this TUNING THE SOIL. This puts the soil energy "in tune" for our crop. Its just green mulching people have been doing it for hundreds of years. It's nothing new. I didn't reinvent the wheel. I just went back to find what they did back in the day to grow food properly before chemicals. With all this being said...

Your first round should cook per instructions with 20-30lbs of worm castings for at least 30 days. If you are able to tune this first run soil feel free to do so. If not save your trim.

You can just let the 2nd run rip if you wish. I did it was fantastic. However, if you tune it....it'll be 100% better.

After the second run. This is where things get good. I tune it and add 20lbs worm castings and a small bag of pro-mix + the 2nd amendment. Cook it for 30 days.

Third run tune it, cook it 30 days.

Fourth run tune it, cook it for 30 days.

Fifth run tune it, cook for 30 days.

To be continued at my discretion

Just a footnote. There are a few variables in this methodology. Pots are the biggest variable imo. I use smarties they allow for thin roots and loads of soil to recycle. I will not guarantee it will work with anything else. Remember this is just what has worked for me.

Also I usually only have about half of my soil in use at a time as well. So I constantly have some cooking.

I still see nothing about re-amending the 2nd run with another kit #1. Hes says use kit #1 per directions and let 2nd run rip or tune it up for even better results then use kit #2 AFTER the 2nd run. The way you wrote your directions is that you have to buy 3 kits for 3 runs. Kit #1 for 1st and 2nd runs and kit #2 for the 3rd run.

Oh man you guys have been smoking too much herb.

There are two kits. Let's call then #1 and #2.

First run: New bale of promix + EWC + # 1
Second run: same used bale of promix + EWC + #1
Third run : same used bale of promix + extra promix + EWC + #2

Tuning the soil (adding leaf scraps) can be done to any of these runs!

How is that saying the same thing?

I plan to use the kit when Im able to build my sealed room which wont be til after I move to a bigger place sometime this year hopefully.

 

[slowgro]

Funny thing is both ways would probably work OK.

And recycling soil is quite risky. One outbreak of mold or insect attack and you must toss the whole mess and start over. Of course, with risk often comes reward and really good soil is worth the risk for some, perhaps not for all.

I'm happy with two runs on mine right now, because although it's more expensive for me this way, it's a time saver. I take soil that's been used exactly once, amend it with slightly less amendment than a first time amendment, add some worm castings and leaf scraps, some Roots and let it re-cook.

After the second run, I start over, because it just mechanically fits into my time and space better. I have a constant turnover of plants usually and have all kinds of trash cans full of soil lying around.....I need 4-5 cans for each "run," in order to keep things going and recycling past run 3 means more cans and less free space.....and that doesn't fit my plans just yet.

+REPs and Hat's Off to ya, Doc - you found the answer that lets everyone be happy

Mom had a special talent for that ....(too)....

Mooooving on......

(I'll email about kits soon - I'm just slow...)

 

[PakaloloHawaii]

I still see nothing about re-amending the 2nd run with another kit #1. Hes says use kit #1 per directions and let 2nd run rip or tune it up for even better results then use kit #2 AFTER the 2nd run. The way you wrote your directions is that you have to buy 3 kits for 3 runs. Kit #1 for 1st and 2nd runs and kit #2 for the 3rd run.


How is that saying the same thing?

I plan to use the kit when Im able to build my sealed room which wont be til after I move to a bigger place sometime this year hopefully.

I try my best to follow what the master does. Here, he states his recycling method. Again, feel free to do whatever you choose when you are using the kit. As what any of us here do might not work the same for you, beyond certain techniques doc and others have shown us to work well with high brix growing. Please experiment and let everyone know how it goes so we can all use the kit better.

I'm happy with two runs on mine right now, because although it's more expensive for me this way, it's a time saver. I take soil that's been used exactly once, amend it with slightly less amendment than a first time amendment, add some worm castings and leaf scraps, some Roots and let it re-cook.

After the second run, I start over, because it just mechanically fits into my time and space better. I have a constant turnover of plants usually and have all kinds of trash cans full of soil lying around.....I need 4-5 cans for each "run," in order to keep things going and recycling past run 3 means more cans and less free space.....and that doesn't fit my plans just yet.

Doc, I've been wanting to run some strains that don't quite fit into the "landrace" bracket of strains. Seems like if you are scrapping your soil after the second run, you are able to grow salt lovers with bonemeal/guano with no recourse on the recycling program, because there isn't one!

You have a 1/4 cup of bonemeal in your 3gal pot in the LED grow right? Is there a way to grow OG, coax some flavor out of it with a smaller amount of bonemeal/guano, in a bigger pot? Maybe 1/8 a cup at the bottom of a 7gallon pot. And could this slightly dumb soil be recyled for another OG type grow?

Mahalo

 

[Doc Bud]

I try my best to follow what the master does. Here, he states his recycling method. Again, feel free to do whatever you choose when you are using the kit. As what any of us here do might not work the same for you, beyond certain techniques doc and others have shown us to work well with high brix growing. Please experiment and let everyone know how it goes so we can all use the kit better.




Doc, I've been wanting to run some strains that don't quite fit into the "landrace" bracket of strains. Seems like if you are scrapping your soil after the second run, you are able to grow salt lovers with bonemeal/guano with no recourse on the recycling program, because there isn't one!

You have a 1/4 cup of bonemeal in your 3gal pot in the LED grow right? Is there a way to grow OG, coax some flavor out of it with a smaller amount of bonemeal/guano, in a bigger pot? Maybe 1/8 a cup at the bottom of a 7gallon pot. And could this slightly dumb soil be recyled for another OG type grow?

Mahalo

Yup! Give it a try! I have to take a break from the OG crosses.....grew them 3 cycles in a row and have lots of bugs now, so be careful. But yes....it could be done and is probably a great idea!

Carefully recycled soil is the best thing you can do for quality of product...but you still get amazing, high brix product on the first and second run, especially if you green mulch it. Dr. Reams himself advocated green mulching the crop the you're trying to grow....claims it "tuned" the soil for the crop.

 

[CascadianDank]

Funny thing is both ways would probably work OK.

The point I was trying to make is settled then. There were 2 different directions posted. The confusion was that the 2 of you posted different directions. Nobody said either was right or wrong

 

[budnoob2]

All caught up now, saved all my notes from this and Q&A and now waiting for the kit

 

[trichomes]

Happy 420 Easter DocGoodBud