Herbies Desserts to Sweeten Your Day @ Otters

[Keffka]

Edit

Nvm realized the refractometer was good. I’m almost positive it’s K now. It could possibly be carbon but I doubt that if it’s a Rev mix.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Also, what is by the book? Do you have a copy of what you’re using for reference? The only DLI chart I’ve seen referenced is pretty aggressive stuff for our methods, and I haven’t seen one from Photone. Just wanna see what values you’re running

Thank you Keffka. What do you mean aggressive stuff for our methods? Are the upper limits too high for an organic grow? If so, could I ask you to suggest more suitable numbers please? I'm about to embark on a DLI conscious grow for the first time too but for autoflowers and DLI charts differ for autos and photos anyway.

Is this the chart you are referring to? I found it on the Photone website.

 

[Keffka]

Thank you Keffka. What do you mean aggressive stuff for our methods? Are the upper limits too high for an organic grow? If so, could I ask you to suggest more suitable numbers please? I'm about to embark on a DLI conscious grow for the first time too but for autoflowers and DLI charts differ for autos and photos anyway.

Is this the chart you are referring to? I found it on the Photone website.

Yes, that chart is too aggressive for most organic methods. If you’re feeding organic acids or bottled nutrients it likely won’t be an issue but for those of us mixing soils, this chart is too much too fast for our roots in the beginning and is typically too much for bloom if you don’t have an appropriate sized root ball. Our root ball is the single most important aspect in organic growing and it needs time and a good amount of space.

It’s difficult to give you a specific DLI to target as every strain and environment is different. Some folks can blast their plants with 1000 ppfd from the start and others need to wait for roots. My best advice to you is to use this chart but watch your plants. If they look like they’re unhappy, do not feel obligated to stick to the chart. Raise your light or lower your intensity but don’t feel like you MUST stick to the numbers. Use them as a guide, view them as the max, if you get there that’s awesome, if not, it’s not a deal breaker. You’ve grown plenty of plants without DLI, this is just an opportunity to see just how much light you can throw at them.

Take notes on your observations and figure out what DLI works best for your room.

 

[Gee64]

It's very fuzzy and an 8. I removed the 3 other plastic covers and barked them and gave them top water @ 1.6 ltrs.

I'd like to figure this out to keep

this one good in the 3 x 3! It'll probably start in 3 weeks. She's perfect today.

IMG_1132.jpeg

• StoneOtter
• May 26, 2024

Purple Ghost Candy

I would bet it's either O2 or hungry then. They could be one and the same.

O2 is always a good start. If you let it dry down be on the lookout for it getting worse. Your roots may rebel at 1st.

Check brix every 48 hours and see if O2 makes them climb.

The 5 things required for raising brix are Ca, P, C, microbes, and O2.

This is promising. Food can't be recognized by a microbe in the absence of O2. You need aerobic microbes, not anaerobic.

Good stuff Lets all watch at Stones expense

 

[Gee64]

Also, PPFD is a much better guide than DLI. You can easily have too much PPFD for the plant to handle and be on the lower end of "recommended" DLI. My Durban I grow can't handle over 950PPFD.

Thats fairly high for no CO2 but many run much higher well into the thousands without co2.

Thats off the non CO2 chart and starvation is guaranteed, you run out of atmospheric carbon.

Make sure you are following the non-co2 chart.

 

[StoneOtter]

Calcium is good but 8 is a problem. Do you have a copy of the soil report I can take a look at? All I see is K. Revs mixes have enough K only if you follow them to the letter, have you made substitutions? I don’t want to recommend more though without knowing what’s there.

How many colas and growing tips do these plants have?

The one having trouble has 7 main colas from a manifold. One got cut off in a tragic scissor accident! Then from those 7 mains come mainish arms that are going to make really big buds! They all look like main buds. No substitutions that I can remember. I try to keep to his words and do only what the book says.

RIMROCK SOIL TEST.jpg

• StoneOtter
• May 26, 2024

Soil test

 

[StoneOtter]

Also, what is by the book? Do you have a copy of what you’re using for reference? The only DLI chart I’ve seen referenced is pretty aggressive stuff for our methods, and I haven’t seen one from Photone. Just wanna see what values you’re running

 

[StoneOtter]

My heads spinning but in a good way! Thanks everyone! We will overcome!

 

[StoneOtter]

IT'S A NEW DAY UPDATE

Good day all!

I've been thinking. First, I do believe that this issue has likely been brought on by my watering after day one in the SIP planters. Last 5 pots didn't have this happen. I gave them one water to marry the soils and that was it! That's the only change I can think of that would create any of the scenarios we spoke of yesterday concerning having more and upper roots to grow a plant then me not feeding those roots to let them do their jobs. That's my simple translation guess. Whoever thought that, I agree. Those roots seem to be acting as wicks and getting too much moisture in/up there blocking o2.

With that said, those roots will be there and need some love so a regimen of water, and microbes are on the way. And mico. Tomorrow @DYNOMYCO Spark , a new product to me from them should arrive and I'll start giving that to them too. It's a wettable product for drenching. I water daily in flower so I'm thinking I'll stick to that in smallish amounts. Starting with, 1.6 ltrs. They will have had a round of real growers recharge and maybe a round of plain water before then.

It sure is nice to have had all this help! That's the plan I'm sticking with until I'm not Let's hope for the best! What did I miss? Light. It's backed off some compared to before. What else?

 

[KeithLemon]

Good morning Stone is it raining in your neck of the woods. Happy growing and have a great day.

 

[Gee64]

Great deductions and decisions Stone. Has the detriment stopped spreading?

If it reverses itself it was from the soil end (although not all soil issues reverse, some leave scars) but if it was light stress the leaves are what they are now. Think of it as a tan

If you follow DLI but monitor PPFD you will dial your lighting in quicker. DLI is long term goals, PPFD is real time limits.

@Jon is a lighting wizard. He straightened me right out.

 

[StoneOtter]

Good morning Stone is it raining in your neck of the woods. Happy growing and have a great day.

Yeah it's misty today. Good morning Keith!

Has the detriment stopped spreading?

Too early to tell. She wasn't on fire last night before lights out so maybe?

Great deductions and decisions Stone.

It should be! It's your and Keff and Azi, and Carmen's input! We/mostly you folks, had a thoughtful day yesterday!

If you follow DLI but monitor PPFD you will dial your lighting in quicker. DLI is long term goals, PPFD is real time limits.

On that.

@Jon is a lighting wizard. He straightened me right out.

I have to look at different light meters. My confidence has left the building and that's all there is. Apogee is out of the question unless I find one used. It'll have to be a good story of ownership though. Nothing too pricy though.

 

[Ke0ncp]

have to look at different light meters. My confidence has left the building and that's all there is. Apogee is out of the question unless I find one used. It'll have to be a good story of ownership though. Nothing too pricy though

I use the UNI-T Light Meter UT383BT I really like it. I think it was @Delps8 that turned me on to it. If I remember correctly he tested this unit next to his Apogee and results were close.

 

[Azimuth]

@StoneOtter , what level do you keep your reservoir at with your auto fill, right to the overflow hole?

If so, maybe maintaining a lower level could help as that will lower the perched water table in the pot leaving a lower level of soil in the overwet zone.

I'm trying a different style SIP design for my next run as I seemed to have similar issues to what you describe. I've had much larger and more robust plants since growing SIP, but just recently started checking brix. My big beautiful plants (at least up to the 2-3 week after pistils stage) only registed a measly 5 on the brix scale.

Gee had me change my watering practices and brix rose up to 11 in a week-ish.

I'd agree with you and the others that it's more likely water related than a deficiency in your soil, especially since you run The Rev's mix.

 

[StoneOtter]

I use the UNI-T Light Meter UT383BT I really like it. I think it was @Delps8 that turned me on to it. If I remember correctly he tested this unit next to his Apogee and results were close.

Thanks! I'll check it out!

 

[KeithLemon]

I too need a light meter because right now I can only measure temp and RH.

 

[StoneOtter]

@StoneOtter , what level do you keep your reservoir at with your auto fill, right to the overflow hole?

If so, maybe maintaining a lower level could help as that will lower the perched water table in the pot leaving a lower level of soil in the overwet zone.

I'm trying a different style SIP design for my next run as I seemed to have similar issues to what you describe. I've had much larger and more robust plants since growing SIP, but just recently started checking brix. My big beautiful plants (at least up to the 2-3 week after pistils stage) only registed a measly 5 on the brix scale.

Gee had me change my watering practices and brix rose up to 11 in a week-ish.

I'd agree with you and the others that it's more likely water related than a deficiency in your soil, especially since you run The Rev's mix.

I think it's a quarter inch from the hole, pretty close so there' slots of water in there. You're finding a lower level helps huh? That's good to know! I have to try one more grow not watering on top before I change levels and chase Brix I think. My first grows really went smoothly and brix may have been in the double digits if I remember right. My quest for auto watering has to be simple.
This soil has produced dry pounds on a few occasions, some in 10 gallon pots, once in a SIP and all water only! I have full confidence the energy is in there! I foolishly thought I was dialed in this grow! Pretty sure it's getting there now!

5 to 11 is a good jump! Gee really knows how to rub a plant the right way!

 

[StoneOtter]

I too need a light meter because right now I can only measure temp and RH.

It's a good tool to have! Takes guessing out of the grow. Your new light may have good charts though yes?

 

[Azimuth]

I think it's a quarter inch from the hole, pretty close so there' slots of water in there. You're finding a lower level helps huh? That's good to know! I have to try one more grow not watering on top before I change levels and chase Brix I think. My first grows really went smoothly and brix may have been in the double digits if I remember right. My quest for auto watering has to be simple.
This soil has produced dry pounds on a few occasions, some in 10 gallon pots, once in a SIP and all water only! I have full confidence the energy is in there! I foolishly thought I was dialed in this grow! Pretty sure it's getting there now!

5 to 11 is a good jump! Gee really knows how to rub a plant the right way!

I'm wondering if having a significant reservoir is even necessary with an auto watering set-up. We use the rez as a reserve of water to be tapped between watering so the plant doesn't run out in between fill-ups, but with auto watering your's never runs out.

Then the question turns to other facets of the reservoir like how high that makes your perched water table and that is set by how well your mix wicks moisture and is measured from the top of the water in the reservoir.

Since waterlogged soil in an organic grow by definition slows down the microbial activity by reducing O2, I'm starting to think the lower the water table in relation to the mix actually growing the plant the better, and in your setup you don't need a reserve bank inside the pot since you have a much larger one feeding the flow.

I'm trialing a different SIP design for my next round to see if I can find a better balance but your auto fill is intriguing.

 

[Ke0ncp]

I'm wondering if having a significant reservoir is even necessary with an auto watering set-up. We use the rez as a reserve of water to be tapped between watering so the plant doesn't run out in between fill-ups, but with auto watering your's never runs out.

Then the question turns to other facets of the reservoir like how high that makes your perched water table and that is set by how well your mix wicks moisture and is measured from the top of the water in the reservoir.

Since waterlogged soil in an organic grow by definition slows down the microbial activity by reducing O2, I'm starting to think the lower the water table in relation to the mix actually growing the plant the better, and in your setup you don't need a reserve bank inside the pot since you have a much larger one feeding the flow.

I'm trialing a different SIP design for my next round to see if I can find a better balance but your auto fill is intriguing.

I was thinking the same thing, just not in such a “I actually know what I’m taking about” sort of way and more of a hunch that your reservoir never fully or close to fully depletes.

Think about your past SIPs. Fill the res daily at that point in flower and the res is or damn near empty.