Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

[BreakPoint]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I have always felt that competition, though useful, is limiting because it forces us to rely on comparison in order to make judgments rather than seeing the qualities of each thing objectively.

Setting Sun has been amazing in his wisdom with regards to this competition. By growing with the simple attitude of the happy observer he is able to deliver a fantastic learning experience for all of us, and that's a beautiful thing. I completely agree that it is unfair to compare this grow to an HID grow, not to mention irrelevant to the experiment. Secondly, I agree with SS that each plant should be harvested when they are "ready" as it would be foolish to reduce this experiment to grow time. Let's learn everything we can from this awesome opportunity.

As a newcomer to 420 culture and online forums in general, I feel fortunate to be in the company of such intelligent, thoughtful people. Thanks all for teaching me so much for my first grow!

me too thanks everyone

 

[CharlieMopps]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

How many more weeks to go? This last batch of pics reminded me of how bad the light penetration is.

 

[hydronewbie]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

How many more weeks to go? This last batch of pics reminded me of how bad the light penetration is.

On what criteria are you making this observation? The camera may be skewing the light as it is perceived by the viewer. Are you still 'comparing' LED penetration with HID thus making a judgment of bad penetration? Both control groups look good to my observation; the HGL looks bushier to me.

 

[MountainHigh]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Thanx, man the ladies are looking luscious.

I don't know how you cure, if, for some reason you hang whole plants, the total dry weight/plant would give better #s, but wet weight wiil work. In very simple English, I'm looking to measure the ratio of finished product to total [above ground] plant mass. I call it the treasure/trash ratio. We smoke bud, not stix or leaves, the ratio gives you the percent of total plant mass that is bud, a measure of productive efficiency. I want to grow as much treasure and as little trash as possible. This is why I want to breed my purple dwarf, she don't waste time and energy making stix. The grams/watt-hr calc. measures how efficient we are growing bud in terms of electricity I want to measure how efficient the plant is in growing bud, and this calc. does that.

With regards to your nuteburn,
More is not better past a point, the flat part of the curve represents luxury consuption [waste] and once you begin downsloping on the right, you're doing damage [and wasting $]. IMO, the middle of the curve is the [optimum] place to be, not too much waste, not borderline over or under. This curve applies for all parameters, and is useful in decision making. [If you want to really fine tune, the vertical line marking the point of diminshing returns on the left is a good upper limit.]

thanx again for this, your doing a public service.

Yeah in one of my ramblings, I came to the same conclusion, so I have decided on my next grow I am gonna try out Dutchmasters Gold series inorganics in soil, bought my clearex . I am gonna stick with the 3/4 strength feeding unless they show deficiency that I can't attribute to ph. I honestly don't expect any deficiencies getting fed once a week. I figure 3/4 str is probably more in the "safe" zone. I hate hurting my babies..... No intentional tip burn for me. I imagine I will end up going back to organics but the ones I want are prohibitive in cost atm and next time I do organic I am gonna try 3-4 soil additives for buffering and have been thinking about brewing my own teas this summer outside...we will see. That would take some research...sounds like fun maybe. That would be a kick, growing your pot with your own nute's.

MountainHigh's Miracle Tonic!!!! Cures all your plant's ailments...slow growth, poor production...hermaphrodism, that's RIGHT this snake oil...I mean nutes will cure almost anything...you have to drink it and pee it on your plants . I get to watch you drink it.

brothers.

 

[Keith Lake]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Great chart, and while I can't dispute their assertion with references, it either intuitively doesn't make sense to me or I'm failing to grasp the nuance.

Doesn't this imply that as long as you're not deficient or toxic, then there's essentially no difference in the benefit of the nute level as measured by the plant's response?

My assumption (which might be wrong) is that you want as much nutrient available to the plant up to the point where it's more than it can handle. This chart indicates my thinking is wrong by introducing me to the concept of luxury consumption.

The method of brushing the upper edge to ensure you're maxing out is a conventional wisdom - but could be group-think if this chart is accurate.

Essentially, it's seems more analogous to the way our body's treat vitamins and minerals (expulsion) than to the way our bodies treat food. I say this because there's a lot of luxury consumers with 50" wastelines in my neck of the woods.

 

[Cephas]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Deems some purdy photos SS

 

[Sanwan]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Took me a week to catch up and read thru this but awesome grow comparison SS. I can only imagine how it would be if you could apply some hands on skills!

 

[420warriors]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Plants look great SS, looks like the bud development has picked up a little. Maybe you will get lucky and they will really start to pack it on through the rest of flowering.

Hey bmarduk, I like your treasure/trash idea but does growing that way affect taste or potency? I'm just wondering since thick stalks indicate strength and health, and the vegetation contain plant sugars and such that aid in bud development.

 

[MountainHigh]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Great chart, and while I can't dispute their assertion with references, it either intuitively doesn't make sense to me or I'm failing to grasp the nuance.

Doesn't this imply that as long as you're not deficient or toxic, then there's essentially no difference in the benefit of the nute level as measured by the plant's response?

My assumption (which might be wrong) is that you want as much nutrient available to the plant up to the point where it's more than it can handle. This chart indicates my thinking is wrong by introducing me to the concept of luxury consumption.

The method of brushing the upper edge to ensure you're maxing out is a conventional wisdom - but could be group-think if this chart is accurate.

Essentially, it's seems more analogous to the way our body's treat vitamins and minerals (expulsion) than to the way our bodies treat food. I say this because there's a lot of luxury consumers with 50" wastelines in my neck of the woods.

I have been 3/4 recommended on Lilbit my whole grow. Figured I wanted to play it SAFE, but I have been using molasses every watering so maybe that is enough supplement. Anyway soon you will see what slight undernuting has done for Lilbit. A 3 week old seedling too. I think a nute grow should be ran next!!!!!! 1/2 str 3/4 str and full str and 1 1/4 str head to head for weight comparison, and I think plant weight versus bud weight will be important figure too so you can see what each level of nute accomplishes. Give them basic nute set from whatever manufacturer wanted to step forward or just pick one from Butchers nute poll. Also use a bloom enhancer and cal-mag. I think that would be not only interesting but majorly informative in a way I have never seen done. Could be done with 4 plants in the same tent (clones), maintain canopy height with foam (this is my edit, anyone know what I meant here?) or LST them all (might as well grow for yield too). I know to make a real test we need a lot more data but this will give a clue I think.

 

[MountainHigh]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Oh and I wanted to say, I like the acceleration in the bud growth now, not sure how it will end but they look much nicer now! +rep when I can for your patience with us loudmouths .

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

DAY 37 BLOOM

A couple of the plants have a little tip burn, so I'm about where I want to be with my nutes. I'm pushing them pretty hard, using the full FF schedule at almost every watering, and tracking PH carefully. I'm beginning to think that some of the reports of FF nutes being "too hot" may be more a case of not adjusting the PH before use. On the last feeding, the uncorrected PH of the full FF schedule nute mix was 5.2.

Plants are green and healthy.

Steady as she goes .

bro you plants look so good and healthy. loving it brother.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I have always felt that competition, though useful, is limiting because it forces us to rely on comparison in order to make judgments rather than seeing the qualities of each thing objectively.

Setting Sun has been amazing in his wisdom with regards to this competition. By growing with the simple attitude of the happy observer he is able to deliver a fantastic learning experience for all of us, and that's a beautiful thing. I completely agree that it is unfair to compare this grow to an HID grow, not to mention irrelevant to the experiment. Secondly, I agree with SS that each plant should be harvested when they are "ready" as it would be foolish to reduce this experiment to grow time. Let's learn everything we can from this awesome opportunity.

As a newcomer to 420 culture and online forums in general, I feel fortunate to be in the company of such intelligent, thoughtful people. Thanks all for teaching me so much for my first grow!

I really like your "happy observer" description of how I approached this grow! I don't think I could define it any better.

I'm glad you've been able to learn from this journal. My curiosity about this plant has never burned brighter, and I've only scratched the surface of the art and science of growing.

You've landed in a good place and I'm glad you're here.

Best wishes on your first grow .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Could the reduced water usage simply be from the lower temps?

My widow didn't drink much either. I'm sure temp is at least one of the factors.

Not only could be, but mostly, are. "The Photosynthesis-Transpiration Compromise" is worth googling and groking.

Both grow space temps and canopy temps are lower with LED's. You can hold your hand directly under these two lights all day.

Fabric pots might be a good choice for LED grows.

 

[go green]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Hey SS, Thanks for the spectacle of your ladies in so many ways! Good photography my friend...

Hope all is well in your world, SS! :0)

Peace bro...hit me up sometime. Let's chat.

-GO

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Nice update SS!

thank you slimm, glad you're onboard .

me too thanks everyone

thanks for participating BreakPoint!

Deems some purdy photos SS

thank you Cephas, hope school is going well and that all is well with you .

Took me a week to catch up and read thru this but awesome grow comparison SS. I can only imagine how it would be if you could apply some hands on skills!

thanks for reading through jawasan!

I would have loved to have bent these ladies over, but I think it would be hard to LST eight plants equally, and even if you did, they might not respond equally, so I decided to just let them go. I could be wrong on the LST introducing a significant variable. It would be interesting to see how each light fares with a horizontal grow.

again, thanks for reading through this novel and glad you're subscribed

Plants look great SS, looks like the bud development has picked up a little. Maybe you will get lucky and they will really start to pack it on through the rest of flowering.

It would be good if bud growth accelerates in the next few weeks. It's hard for me to judge how they're doing because I really don't have a frame of reference. My only previous experience with LED's has been using a couple of 50w red/blue panels for veg purposes, so I don't have any experience flowering with them.

bro you plants look so good and healthy. loving it brother.

Thanks irish!

It's been quite a ride and it ain't over yet .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

man. I'm up early as hell today. and to my pleasure, what did i find???

beautiful pics my man.

the HGL looks like it will yield significantly better towards the bottom of the plant.
we'll find out soon enough.

here's to you SS.
PEACE.

Thanks wheelo!

Taking pics is always fun for me, long as I have the energy. If I'm tired, they start lookin' tired .

At this point in the grow, the HGL's have more extensive branching and more bud sites at mid and bottom.

Can't wait to see how it plays out .

take care bro

 

[BreakPoint]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I have been 3/4 recommended on Lilbit my whole grow. Figured I wanted to play it SAFE, but I have been using molasses every watering so maybe that is enough supplement. Anyway soon you will see what slight undernuting has done for Lilbit. A 3 week old seedling too. I think a nute grow should be ran next!!!!!! 1/2 str 3/4 str and full str and 1 1/4 str head to head for weight comparison, and I think plant weight versus bud weight will be important figure too so you can see what each level of nute accomplishes. Give them basic nute set from whatever manufacturer wanted to step forward or just pick one from Butchers nute poll. Also use a bloom enhancer and cal-mag. I think that would be not only interesting but majorly informative in a way I have never seen done. Could be done with 4 plants in the same tent (clones), maintain canopy height with foam or LST them all (might as well grow for yield too). I know to make a real test we need a lot more data but this will give a clue I think.

daggum good idea

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Excellent update SS.

Could you maybe remind us how tall they were before flowering and how tall they are now? (assuming they have finished stretching, which I think have).

Just wanted to get an idea of how much they have stretched under each of the lights.

Keep up the exemplary work!

They were flipped at 5 weeks veg and averaged around 12", ranging from 11-13", with the HSS group averaging about 1" taller than the HGL group.

They have finished stretching and this is how tall they are today:

HGL 1 - 21"
HGL 3 - 21.5"
HGL 4 - 22"
HGL 5 - 27"

HSS 1 - 24"
HSS 2 - 38"
HSS 4 - 24"
HSS 5 - 24"

there ya go bro

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Thanks for the great update SS!

My experience with the FF nutes matches yours: I've been feeding at about the same rate and at day 45 of flowering all plants are now showing about 1mm of tip burn. And, yes, pH of the unadjusted nute mix is 5.2 so I bring it up to 6.7 or 6.8 before application. I realize that's a bit on the high side but runnoff is 6.5 so it's looking good to me. As I get closer to harvest I've been adding an extra tsp of Tiger Bloom per gallon, which increases the ppm from 850 to 1150 - a level the plants seem to like. So, in my experience, not only are the FF nutes not too hot, there's room in the feeding schedule for a bit of twiddling.

Thanks for sharing your experience usul. I certainly haven't had any overnute issues, even giving them the full schedule more frequently than every other watering since bloom started.

How many more weeks to go? This last batch of pics reminded me of how bad the light penetration is.

Barney's says 7-8 weeks for this strain, but each plant's going to be chopped when trichs are 50/50, so there's probably going to be a spread.

On what criteria are you making this observation? The camera may be skewing the light as it is perceived by the viewer. Are you still 'comparing' LED penetration with HID thus making a judgment of bad penetration? Both control groups look good to my observation; the HGL looks bushier to me.

It's hard to not make the mental comparison to what we are used to growing with and seeing, but you're right, that isn't what we're comparing.

After the stretch, the groups still exhibit the same differences. The HGL plants are shorter and bushier, and the HSS are taller with more open branching.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Holy Smokes! I really like what you expressed about legalization in CA. I really think it's going to happen this year. I agree that people are going to want the type of product you suggest - plug and play - of course, here in CA we will be able to grow a 5' X 5' for personal consumption according to the initiative that was sent to government with the required petition signatures.

Let's hope that logic and common sense are exercised this time around.

(A little off topic...all about me, sorry)I decided I'm going to go buy some indica clones at Harborside today and start a hydro/CFL grow. I was waiting on this grow, but darn it, my green thumb is itchy and I've developed a nasty case of spring fever with growers envy.

I had a few successful grows last year. This time, I really want to grow some major dank chronic. So I'll be tapping experts on this forum. I've never uploaded photos before but I can see the benefits of keeping a journal in progress. It keeps one focused and open to suggestions from experts. Also, I'm really going to try to include my wife in the effort this time. I hate to admit that I get all control freak on her, but I'm only human. Okay, enough about that. Thanks for letting me digress...

Good for you!

It's hard to look at all these journals and be patient if you have an inclination to grow.

You can grow fine with CFL's, so I don't blame you for getting a head start. Keeping a journal is a really good way to get good advice and help, so I'd encourage you to journal your grow. Uploading pics isn't hard, and the tutorial explains it well.

I think it's a great idea to include your wife if she's interested! I've struggled with control freak issues, so I know from whence you speak. I have a few mantras that help keep me centered, and "control is an illusion" is probably the one I tell myself most often.

Ok, I'm starting to sound like Dr. Phil, lol

keep it green, my friend