Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Still finalizing things on how I'm going to chop, sorry for the delay.
Still finalizing things on how I'm going to chop, sorry for the delay.
Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED
- Thread starter Keith Lake
- Start date
1234a5678b
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Looks like we've still got a few weeks.
Looks like we've still got a few weeks.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
unfortunately watering is reduced because water uptake is slow, because they aren't very thirsty, because with such little light they don't need to support rigorous growth as compared with a large HID.
they're just not comparable.
VK with 30 days to go. . . and under a big HID????
lets not lose sight of the fact that these tents are using just over 100 something watts. . . i don't think they're a bad size or maturity considering that. . . you have to try to mentally compare them with 150hps, not a 1000hps. thats obviously going to be a ridiculous comparison.
you have pics of VK under 150w HPS thats significantly bigger or ahead? doubt it bro.
but your right about one thing, you want huge massive buds for the same PRICE in equipment as these little micro grows, you gotta go BIG HID. . . or you can spend $5 grand on enough LED's to compete with $750 worth of HPS.
these light seem like they would be great for the personal micro grows out there who's requirements fit the light specs.
unfortunately watering is reduced because water uptake is slow, because they aren't very thirsty, because with such little light they don't need to support rigorous growth as compared with a large HID.
they're just not comparable.
VK with 30 days to go. . . and under a big HID????
lets not lose sight of the fact that these tents are using just over 100 something watts. . . i don't think they're a bad size or maturity considering that. . . you have to try to mentally compare them with 150hps, not a 1000hps. thats obviously going to be a ridiculous comparison.
you have pics of VK under 150w HPS thats significantly bigger or ahead? doubt it bro.
but your right about one thing, you want huge massive buds for the same PRICE in equipment as these little micro grows, you gotta go BIG HID. . . or you can spend $5 grand on enough LED's to compete with $750 worth of HPS.
these light seem like they would be great for the personal micro grows out there who's requirements fit the light specs.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
plus one other thing bro,
even in a stabilized strain that is very consistent, plant offspring are still individuals just people and animals, if you plant 10 beans, one or two of them might be significantly stronger or bigger than the others. this is why growing from clone is so powerful, you can find the beast and make more beasts. . . this is what most hardcore growers do.
the VK you saw may also be an exceptional plant as compared with it's sisters. In fact most "award winning" strains, probably won whatever competition they were in because the person growing that strain found an exceptional specimen and served that one to the judges.
for instance if you bought lemon skunk, or whatever the hell won the cup last year, it is doubtful (to me at least) that the beans you buy and grow out will be quite as exceptional as the one that was served to the judges. . . unless you buy 20 beans and find the best one or two and clone from there. . . then they might be more comparable.
think of the FAMED cheese pics, that exceptional pheno with all those crystals. . . . show me a cheese that someone did after that ever looked as good as that first accidental find. . . I've never found one. a clone from that plant would be worth 10x as much as some of its offspring beans, IMO.
plus one other thing bro,
even in a stabilized strain that is very consistent, plant offspring are still individuals just people and animals, if you plant 10 beans, one or two of them might be significantly stronger or bigger than the others. this is why growing from clone is so powerful, you can find the beast and make more beasts. . . this is what most hardcore growers do.
the VK you saw may also be an exceptional plant as compared with it's sisters. In fact most "award winning" strains, probably won whatever competition they were in because the person growing that strain found an exceptional specimen and served that one to the judges.
for instance if you bought lemon skunk, or whatever the hell won the cup last year, it is doubtful (to me at least) that the beans you buy and grow out will be quite as exceptional as the one that was served to the judges. . . unless you buy 20 beans and find the best one or two and clone from there. . . then they might be more comparable.
think of the FAMED cheese pics, that exceptional pheno with all those crystals. . . . show me a cheese that someone did after that ever looked as good as that first accidental find. . . I've never found one. a clone from that plant would be worth 10x as much as some of its offspring beans, IMO.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Thanks for the reality check wheelo
We're *not* comparing LED to HID on this grow, and we're *not* interested in trying to validate any claims made by manufacturers.
When I said that they are a little behind what I'm used to seeing with my *250* HPS, it was only to give us some kind of index as to where they are at compared to the only mental standard I personally have to bounce them against. Having not grown with newer LED panels prior to this grow, I have no other mental database than my 250 HPS to compare their progress to. Otherwise, I wouldn't have mentioned both technologies in the same sentence, as that is not the focus of this grow.
I think it's pretty ludicrous to compare <200w LED lights to a 1000w HPS setup, but if you have an axe to grind and that's where you have to go to discredit these lights, knock yourself out, just don't expect me or many others to take that comparison very seriously.
When I said I was happy with how they are blooming, it's because I am taking into consideration how much energy is being used to grow these plants.
There are a lot of people doing personal grows and there will be more and more. The focus of this grow, as far as I'm concerned, is to try to determine whether these two lights are a viable option for personal grows, and to compare their performance to each other in that capacity.
Thanks for the reality check wheelo
We're *not* comparing LED to HID on this grow, and we're *not* interested in trying to validate any claims made by manufacturers.
When I said that they are a little behind what I'm used to seeing with my *250* HPS, it was only to give us some kind of index as to where they are at compared to the only mental standard I personally have to bounce them against. Having not grown with newer LED panels prior to this grow, I have no other mental database than my 250 HPS to compare their progress to. Otherwise, I wouldn't have mentioned both technologies in the same sentence, as that is not the focus of this grow.
I think it's pretty ludicrous to compare <200w LED lights to a 1000w HPS setup, but if you have an axe to grind and that's where you have to go to discredit these lights, knock yourself out, just don't expect me or many others to take that comparison very seriously.
When I said I was happy with how they are blooming, it's because I am taking into consideration how much energy is being used to grow these plants.
There are a lot of people doing personal grows and there will be more and more. The focus of this grow, as far as I'm concerned, is to try to determine whether these two lights are a viable option for personal grows, and to compare their performance to each other in that capacity.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Granted, but if I had to leave my grow unattended for a few days because of my particular grow circumstances, I would rather leave them under under LED's than HID, so I wanted to mention that in case it was important to someone and a factor in deciding what lights to use.
Granted, but if I had to leave my grow unattended for a few days because of my particular grow circumstances, I would rather leave them under under LED's than HID, so I wanted to mention that in case it was important to someone and a factor in deciding what lights to use.
BreakPoint
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
it would be GREAT to not have to deal with heat and major electric consumption, and not having to water so often. Even if the plants were smaller. you could even have a couple of these small grows going in different spaces, to make up the difference. Heck you could have 3 of them going and it might still be comparable to a big HID grow, since you wouldn't have heat to deal with, just fresh air and fragrance...
it would be GREAT to not have to deal with heat and major electric consumption, and not having to water so often. Even if the plants were smaller. you could even have a couple of these small grows going in different spaces, to make up the difference. Heck you could have 3 of them going and it might still be comparable to a big HID grow, since you wouldn't have heat to deal with, just fresh air and fragrance...
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
one last thing SS then i'm done.
one reason that you SHOULD consider comparing HID lighting is cost.
no matter what system you run, big or small, cost is an important factor in any purchase you make.
that's the only reason I would bring up BIG HID's. because if you're starting from a clean slate, haven't bought any equipment yet, and deciding which direction you want to go in, personally, I'm considering the bang for my buck pretty high on the list. (coming from me that sounds weird, lol.) . . . If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't buy the wheel again. live and learn. 2 grand can buy an awful lot of nice stuff.
anyways big hid's provide way way way more light per dollar spent in setup, and these LED's would take forever to recoup that in electricity costs.
thats why these manufacturers have been laying ridiculous claims like the 100 watter= 400 HID, or 300 watter = 1000 HID. they're so damn expensive, they have to try to make them look competitive price wise, when they really aren't.
but i get your point, this thread is just to show what they are capable of.
If i were to compare both tents together vs. a standard 250 hps, i think it's pleasurably comparable, but compare the cost of both and its not quite as alluring.
one last thing SS then i'm done.
one reason that you SHOULD consider comparing HID lighting is cost.
no matter what system you run, big or small, cost is an important factor in any purchase you make.
that's the only reason I would bring up BIG HID's. because if you're starting from a clean slate, haven't bought any equipment yet, and deciding which direction you want to go in, personally, I'm considering the bang for my buck pretty high on the list. (coming from me that sounds weird, lol.) . . . If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't buy the wheel again. live and learn. 2 grand can buy an awful lot of nice stuff.
anyways big hid's provide way way way more light per dollar spent in setup, and these LED's would take forever to recoup that in electricity costs.
thats why these manufacturers have been laying ridiculous claims like the 100 watter= 400 HID, or 300 watter = 1000 HID. they're so damn expensive, they have to try to make them look competitive price wise, when they really aren't.
but i get your point, this thread is just to show what they are capable of.
If i were to compare both tents together vs. a standard 250 hps, i think it's pleasurably comparable, but compare the cost of both and its not quite as alluring.
- Thread starter
- #1,089
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
As outlined in the intial groundrules for this competition, please refrain from HID comparisons in this one sole thread
As outlined in the intial groundrules for this competition, please refrain from HID comparisons in this one sole thread
4) Netiquette
- 420 Magazine's Forum Posting Guidelines apply
- Bashing, flaming, or arguing on the part of any parties will result in an immediate ban. There will be no LED flame wars in this thread
- This thread is not for the discussion of HPS, please use one of the other 42,000 threads on our boards for this topic
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Absolutely, I'm in total agreement.
Absolutely, I'm in total agreement.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
that's why I'm so disappointed with my wheel. so much money, so much trouble.
but when you love on the edge, such is life. exciting sometimes, disappointing sometimes. more fun than the well trodden path. . . all the time.
that's why I'm so disappointed with my wheel. so much money, so much trouble.
but when you love on the edge, such is life. exciting sometimes, disappointing sometimes. more fun than the well trodden path. . . all the time.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
First, a huge
to everyone for all the great feedback, opinions, and well-reasoned discussion as regards how to handle the harvest.
In the planning stage of this journal, we had a lot of back-and-forth discussion to define the parameters for this grow. Unfortunately, chop time wasn't one of them.
Because trich color seems to generally be accepted as the most accurate way to judge bud maturity, we wanted to hear other opinions before making the final decision.
The discussion that took place pertaining to this issue contained some of the most intelligent, educated, and well-reasoned posts that I've read *anywhere*.
For the record, in a message I received from HGL, they strongly feel that both groups should be harvested when the first group is ready. HSS has not weighed in on the issue.
I've decided to chop each individual plant as it reaches 50/50 cloudy/amber trichs. I'll document the exact time for each plant so that weight correlation can be performed on the fully mature plants, both individually and as groups.
It would be silly to not acknowledge that the 50/50 method is subjective in comparison to a calendar date, but the few days range of the 50/50 method should average out across the 8 chops.
I'd think the plants would finish randomly, so that the chop sequence may switch between groups as opposed to one complete group being harvested before the other.
Handling it this way will let us do in-group comparison as well as group to group comparison, and it should also help to reduce the effect of variations caused by different phenos, while preserving light to light finish time and yield comparisons.
I like the idea of looking at the final results as many ways as possible, so we'll look at gross yields as well as applying a time factor to normalize the results.
Harvest times will be clearly reported so that people who are factoring speed heavily will have clean data.
To wrap things up, I believe the plants should come down when they're individually ready because the qualities of taste and effect are *essential* to judging the performance of grow products and gear, and we'd be sacrificing that if we took a few down before they were done according to our criteria.
First, a huge
to everyone for all the great feedback, opinions, and well-reasoned discussion as regards how to handle the harvest.In the planning stage of this journal, we had a lot of back-and-forth discussion to define the parameters for this grow. Unfortunately, chop time wasn't one of them.
Because trich color seems to generally be accepted as the most accurate way to judge bud maturity, we wanted to hear other opinions before making the final decision.
The discussion that took place pertaining to this issue contained some of the most intelligent, educated, and well-reasoned posts that I've read *anywhere*.
For the record, in a message I received from HGL, they strongly feel that both groups should be harvested when the first group is ready. HSS has not weighed in on the issue.
I've decided to chop each individual plant as it reaches 50/50 cloudy/amber trichs. I'll document the exact time for each plant so that weight correlation can be performed on the fully mature plants, both individually and as groups.
It would be silly to not acknowledge that the 50/50 method is subjective in comparison to a calendar date, but the few days range of the 50/50 method should average out across the 8 chops.
I'd think the plants would finish randomly, so that the chop sequence may switch between groups as opposed to one complete group being harvested before the other.
Handling it this way will let us do in-group comparison as well as group to group comparison, and it should also help to reduce the effect of variations caused by different phenos, while preserving light to light finish time and yield comparisons.
I like the idea of looking at the final results as many ways as possible, so we'll look at gross yields as well as applying a time factor to normalize the results.
Harvest times will be clearly reported so that people who are factoring speed heavily will have clean data.
To wrap things up, I believe the plants should come down when they're individually ready because the qualities of taste and effect are *essential* to judging the performance of grow products and gear, and we'd be sacrificing that if we took a few down before they were done according to our criteria.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
sound reasoning my friend. looking forward to seeing it happen.
sound reasoning my friend. looking forward to seeing it happen.
420warriors
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
I agree with wheelo, very sound reasoning. I am sure some will disagree but hopefully all will respect your decision and the vast amount of work you have put into this comp grow.
. I believe you have done an excellent job and based on the large amount of input received on this issue for both sides, you were faced with a difficult decision. again.
I agree with wheelo, very sound reasoning. I am sure some will disagree but hopefully all will respect your decision and the vast amount of work you have put into this comp grow.
. I believe you have done an excellent job and based on the large amount of input received on this issue for both sides, you were faced with a difficult decision. again.1234a5678b
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
I totally agree with your plan. After all of your hard work, you deserve to have every bud ripened to perfection.
I totally agree with your plan. After all of your hard work, you deserve to have every bud ripened to perfection.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
There are growers who will stick with the same method once they get their game down to their satisfaction, and then there's those who will risk failure to love (typo? ) on the edge.
Nothing wrong with either approach, but yeah, life tends to be more fun with higher highs and lower lows.
There are growers who will stick with the same method once they get their game down to their satisfaction, and then there's those who will risk failure to love (typo?
) on the edge.Nothing wrong with either approach, but yeah, life tends to be more fun with higher highs and lower lows.
hydronewbie
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
SS:
Many thanks for everything you've done here including the application of fair and judicious logic.
And thanks to the mods for keeping the attitude in check. There's no reason for anyone to get snippy - unless it's harvest time.
Again, I'm glad I've been able to participate somewhat in this adventure and am eagerly waiting the results.
You forgot to mention where the booth will be where we all get to go and sample the final product.
SS:
Many thanks for everything you've done here including the application of fair and judicious logic.
And thanks to the mods for keeping the attitude in check. There's no reason for anyone to get snippy - unless it's harvest time.
Again, I'm glad I've been able to participate somewhat in this adventure and am eagerly waiting the results.
You forgot to mention where the booth will be where we all get to go and sample the final product.
usul
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Great work SS on the harvesting plan. Not only will we get to see what the lights can do, we'll know how long it takes them to do it.
Great work SS on the harvesting plan. Not only will we get to see what the lights can do, we'll know how long it takes them to do it.
Slowpuffer
Well-Known Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Then you will harvest and send each of us a joint, and we'll be happy for 2 hrs. !! Ha !! Grow on bro. !! You made the right decision !!
Then you will harvest and send each of us a joint, and we'll be happy for 2 hrs. !! Ha !! Grow on bro. !! You made the right decision !!