Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

sfhaze said:
Looking good SS, waiting another week to flower is a good call. I'm sure you can get at least 6oz with the HSS light. But, It took me a few runs to tune things in. My first run was a disaster.
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Yep, I think one more week will have them at a good size for bloom. Thanks for your feedback on that.

I'm giving these ladies as much love as I can (ask Mrs. Sun), so I hope I can achieve that 6oz yield per tent.

Unlike me, you seem to be a man of few words ;), but could you expand a little on what you learned along the way as far as tuning your technique to growing with LED lights?

Why was your first run a disaster?
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Brother, you seem to have a good hold on vegging with these lights. Hopefully, you'll find the key to flowering with them.

I'll continue watching...
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Setting Sun said:
There is more than one harvest to be gained here. There is the harvest of buds, and hopefully, also a harvest of knowledge and information on how these lights perform, the latter being much more global in significance and importance...
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Some nice and shiny leaves there, SS! Waxing a bit poetic, I see... feeling meta-sophical, or just philo-phorical today? :)

Sonora said:
You know SS, when I was growing soil in my perpetual grow way back when, I ended up using 33% soil and 66% perlite - it gave me the best of hydro (fast growth due to regular nute uptake) with the best of soil (relatively easy, a nice buffer in case you miss a watering). It worked really, really well for me...
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Same here; bad drainage sucks. Haven't done soil in awhile, but when I did, I had to have at least 33% perlite in the mix, and have done up to 50%. Helps big time. These days I'd do passive hydro at the least in a soilless mix, I actually find no soil=simpler. For smaller gardens I like DWC/bubblers because they're so cheap and effective. Great for new hydro folks to get there roots wet with before (possibly) moving on to other methods.

Setting Sun said:
HSS claims that their light is comparable to a 600w HID, and HGL claims that theirs is comparable to a 400w HID.

I will be conservative and say that with my 250w HID, I can pull 1.5 oz per plant with 4 plants and the same style grow. If these lights don't at *least* match the yield from my 250, I will not be happy...
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Understood. Mfg claims aside, in optimal conditions I'd expect the 126W to be equivalent to ~250W HPS, and the PPF-800 closer to ~370W. I tend to discount anything above that now as being pure marketing spin...

It seems a lot of the acrimony goes directly back to distributor claims than anything else. A good business (or manager) has the responsibility to manage expectations, whether they are of the customer, the employees, or the owners themselves. That's part of their job. Many that create issues for themselves often due so more from poor communication than due to actual performance or delivery of the product or service. In this case, giving overblown equivalency ratings in order to 'get the sale' (due to fear that folks wouldn't be able to justify the purchase any other way) in lieu of realistic #s is coming back to haunt them...

Treat people properly, communicate in a timely fashion, and they will respond in kind. Pretty simple, actually - a little effort goes a long way. Too bad more people don't actually do that.

------------------------

I think we'd all stomach some of that a little better if costs were about half (or less) of what they are now. Been reading some more on that Spanish site (cannabis cafe .net). Those folks have it together - sticky articles compiled on LED theory, best use, step-by-step DIY guides, even did a group buy for LEDs and put together a working panel configuration that they're now testing using several members growing different strains (the Mr.X results are using their custom panel). Worth a read to anyone interested in LED. Google Translate (Google/Language Tools/Translate a Web Page/Spanish-->English) does a good enough job to let you understand most of it.

Maybe it helps being in a country where personal growing and use is legal...and scientists can do actual research...one day, my friends, one day...
---------------

Keep it green, SS! Hope things continue to go as well as they have.


Regards,

-TL
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Hey lurker has mr x stated his spectrums he uses for his 120 lights anywhere on the site?
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

SouthernWeed said:
Brother, you seem to have a good hold on vegging with these lights. Hopefully, you'll find the key to flowering with them.

I'll continue watching...
Click to expand...


I think both lights performed admirably for veg duty. You could veg a significantly greater number of plants under the HSS light because of the wider coverage, so that's a consideration depending on how many plants a grower wants to veg. As far as my last update, people are going to have their preferences based on one thing or the other, but I wouldn't throw either group outa bed ;).

thank you SouthernWeed!

your plant reading skills are second to none, and I very much appreciate you following this grow ;).
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

The Lurker said:
Some nice and shiny leaves there, SS! Waxing a bit poetic, I see... feeling meta-sophical, or just philo-phorical today? :)
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Nah, just being my own straight man, lol.

The waxy, shiny leaves on the HGL plants look very resistant to bugs and other nasties.

Something else I've noted is that the HGL plants are thirstier. Those stocky fat stems are nice pipelines. The HSS stems aren't thin or spindly, but the HGL pots dry out sooner.

Same here; bad drainage sucks. Haven't done soil in awhile, but when I did, I had to have at least 33% perlite in the mix, and have done up to 50%. Helps big time. These days I'd do passive hydro at the least in a soilless mix, I actually find no soil=simpler. For smaller gardens I like DWC/bubblers because they're so cheap and effective. Great for new hydro folks to get there roots wet with before (possibly) moving on to other methods.
Click to expand...

I am transitioning from soil to passive hydro and will be experimenting with lots of different mediums until I find the one that works best for me, then after that maybe try an active hydro grow.

Understood. Mfg claims aside, in optimal conditions I'd expect the 126W to be equivalent to ~250W HPS, and the PPF-800 closer to ~370W. I tend to discount anything above that now as being pure marketing spin...

It seems a lot of the acrimony goes directly back to distributor claims than anything else. A good business (or manager) has the responsibility to manage expectations, whether they are of the customer, the employees, or the owners themselves. That's part of their job. Many that create issues for themselves often due so more from poor communication than due to actual performance or delivery of the product or service. In this case, giving overblown equivalency ratings in order to 'get the sale' (due to fear that folks wouldn't be able to justify the purchase any other way) in lieu of realistic #s is coming back to haunt them...

Treat people properly, communicate in a timely fashion, and they will respond in kind. Pretty simple, actually - a little effort goes a long way. Too bad more people don't actually do that.
Click to expand...


Could not agree more TL.

Instead of focusing on the strengths of LED lights, i.e., less heat, lower energy costs, no bulb replacements, the vendors historically have seemed to focus their advertising on how their lights are comparable or better than XXXw HID, with a lot of customer disappointment when the claims didn't pan out.

I would like to think that a vendor that marketed their product in a realistic and honest manner, focusing on the product's strengths and advantages, and using realistic comparisons to other competing technologies.

Achieving a yield equal to what can be achieved by using, let's say, 250w of the most popular competing technology, while only using 126w or 180w of LED with much less heat is pretty slick in my book.

I'd hope that a company that marketed their LED lights in that manner would be successful. Or maybe I'm wearing rose-colored glasses.


thanks again T.L. ;)
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

SS: I'm with you being that I'm a small time grower. More of a hobby than anything else. I suppose there is a huge potential market that the LED industry wants to tap and, for better or worse, will juxtapose its products with HID. If the product is superior in many ways, the market will come. I'm waiting on this grow to see about investing in this nascent technology.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

The Lurker said:
Same here; bad drainage sucks. Haven't done soil in awhile, but when I did, I had to have at least 33% perlite in the mix, and have done up to 50%. Helps big time. These days I'd do passive hydro at the least in a soilless mix, I actually find no soil=simpler. For smaller gardens I like DWC/bubblers because they're so cheap and effective. Great for new hydro folks to get there roots wet with before (possibly) moving on to other methods.
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Good post TL and I don't want to get too far off topic but did want to add one quick comment about DWC Hydro: I know it works very well for many growers but it's not foolproof. I tried using a DWC bubbler and had a terrible time with it. Even though I used nearly surgically sterile techniques, had very highly oxygenated water, perfect res temps and on and on, every attempt resulted in a reservoir full of very nasty bacteria - both the red slime and the jelly-like blobs. Despite my best efforts (and much expense) there was something in my environment that just couldn't be overcome. The link in my signature contains all the gorey details. I ended up transplanting to soil (33% perlite - I'll go 50% for my next grow) and have been enjoying very good results and a much more relaxing experience.

Back to the topic at hand: I'm such a newbie I feel a bit sheepish offering any advice regading this grow but wanted to mention one thing I've notice in my soil grow. I top-dressed two of my pots with a layer of hydroton but the third pot got almost none, just because I ran out. The pot without the top dressing dries noticably faster than the others. The hydroton also keeps water from disturbing the surface and causing the perlite to move to the top (which I imagine would cause some soil compaction over time?). So, SS, if you run in to issues with the pots drying too quickly a little hydroton, or some other lightweight dressing, might help. Just a thought...
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Setting Sun said:
Achieving a yield equal to what can be achieved by using, let's say, 250w of the most popular competing technology, while only using 126w or 180w of LED with much less heat is a *very* attractive option.
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Well said SS - this is exctly the postion I'm in. I would be very happy to trade my 250W MH/HPS for a lower wattage LED that produced equal results. Managing the heat from the HID is both expensive and noisy, and I doubt I'd be able to grow with it in the hot summer months. The extra vertical space would also be a huge bonus.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

usul said:
Back to the topic at hand: I'm such a newbie I feel a bit sheepish offering any advice regading this grow but wanted to mention one thing I've notice in my soil grow. I top-dressed two of my pots with a layer of hydroton but the third pot got almost none, just because I ran out. The pot without the top dressing dries noticably faster than the others. The hydroton also keeps water from disturbing the surface and causing the perlite to move to the top (which I imagine would cause some soil compaction over time?). So, SS, if you run in to issues with the pots drying too quickly a little hydroton, or some other lightweight dressing, might help. Just a thought...
Click to expand...


Your idea is excellent!, and I've considered adding a layer of pure Perlite or Hydroton on top. The soil has settled enough to do that. Usually by now, I've top-dressed with additional soil mix to bring the soil level back up, but I haven't on this grow because I was thinking of doing that.

I've decided not to because in this grow, I want the pics to represent the medium that I'm using for the grow. If I put a layer of Hydroton or Perlite on top, that won't happen, so while your suggestion is spot on, I've decided to just add more soil mix.

I think it's always a good idea to bring the level back up with something because it provides more root space and whatever amount of the stem you bury will sprout more roots.

I don't know, I know I can overthink things and this may be an example of that, but I'd like the pics to look like a soil grow for this one.

again, spot-on suggestion usul, thank you ;)
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

The Lurker said:
I think we'd all stomach some of that a little better if costs were about half (or less) of what they are now. Been reading some more on that Spanish site (cannabis cafe .net). Those folks have it together - sticky articles compiled on LED theory, best use, step-by-step DIY guides, even did a group buy for LEDs and put together a working panel configuration that they're now testing using several members growing different strains (the Mr.X results are using their custom panel). Worth a read to anyone interested in LED. Google Translate (Google/Language Tools/Translate a Web Page/Spanish-->English) does a good enough job to let you understand most of it.
Click to expand...

That is my dream for us, here: Figure it all out, sticky it and then get a group buy going. Keep us posted on their findings and maybe we can improve upon it or see what doesn't work. All in all, great days are ahead! :smokin:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

usul said:
Well said SS - this is exctly the postion I'm in. I would be very happy to trade my 250W MH/HPS for a lower wattage LED that produced equal results. Managing the heat from the HID is both expensive and noisy, and I doubt I'd be able to grow with it in the hot summer months. The extra vertical space would also be a huge bonus.
Click to expand...


If these lights, or at least one of them, pans out for flowering, I'm going to be looking forward to the summer heat instead of dreading it.

Right now, I have three separate grow environments going in the corner of the garage, with three exhaust and three circulation fans going, and unless I'm actually in that corner tending to my grows, I can barely hear anything in any other part of the garage. The compressor in the freezer we have in the garage is louder than all my grow gear.

My 100cfm S&P exhaust fans can manage the heat from my 250 HID in summer, but if I stick with HID, I would like to go up to a 400w for flowering, but I'm pretty sure they won't handle that much heat and the solution would have to be noisier.

Like a lot of us, I'm really hoping to see a nice LED harvest from this grow.

The extra vertical space would indeed be a huge bonus. Not on this grow, but I think with some additional CFL or LED side-lighting to help illuminate the lower growth, I could let them go pretty big in my tents.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

My 100cfm S&P exhaust fans can manage the heat from my 250 HID in summer, but if I stick with HID, I would like to go up to a 400w for flowering, but I'm pretty sure they won't handle that much heat and the solution would have to be noisier.

Like a lot of us, I'm really hoping to see a nice LED harvest from this grow.


...with much anticipation. :popcorn: Off topic, anyone else see Avatar 3D yet?
Pretty cool. Yes, I was stoned.

oops
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

hydronewbie said:
My 100cfm S&P exhaust fans can manage the heat from my 250 HID in summer, but if I stick with HID, I would like to go up to a 400w for flowering, but I'm pretty sure they won't handle that much heat and the solution would have to be noisier.

Like a lot of us, I'm really hoping to see a nice LED harvest from this grow.
Click to expand...


...with much anticipation. :popcorn: Off topic, anyone else see Avatar 3D yet?
Pretty cool. Yes, I was stoned.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Haven't seen it, but my daughter gave me a pair of the new 3-D glasses which I've been using to look at some 3D youtube vids, lol.

Now, back to topic ;).

I'd like to get some feedback on whether I should consider transplanting at some point from the square 1.75 gallon pots to some square 4.75 gallon pots.

With the big square pots, if I transplant a little off-center, I can keep the plants under the lights just as well as if they stayed in their current pots, so that's not an issue.

I do not think the transplant shock would throw off the comparison because whatever shock happens will be equal to all of them.

I would like to maximize yield as much as possible, but I need to balance that with the plants getting too tall for the LED's to penetrate well. I don't want to do any topping or training on this grow because I think it will be more useful for us to see how a plant grows without intervention under LED's.

The watering and nute cycles would drop so that would be good if I have to miss a day or two, but not good as far as pushing them with nutes.

I bought the big pots as soon as the grow began and I've been thinking about it since, but I'd like to bounce it off those reading before doing anything.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Your pots look nice and deep but I would think bigger is better,especially if you want to maximize yield. They will all experience the same shock. but as I'm sure you know, you should probably do it soon, before you flip them to flower. :peace:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Yep, that's why I'm putting it out there.

The 1.75 gallon "rose pots" are nice and deep, and I don't think they're necessarily too small to finish the grow in, but I didn't want to make the decision without hearing other people's ideas.

thanks 420warrior!
 
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