Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05

[Trala]

First and foremost, I don't treat my autos any differently than I do my photos. So what is my process?

Good morning farside

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me. I am most relieved I can just train them the same way I train my 12:12 plants. I have found a method of training I really enjoy so I’m stoked I can stick to that.

I grow in a soil-less peat based medium, either store bought or homemade. This is probably of little consequence because I believe that it can be done in any medium.

I started my auto in a seed tray using a Searles seeds mix, like I do all my seeds, then went seedling pot, then into her forever pot. I actually prefer to uppot 4-5 times. It’s the way I’ve always started house plants. I have read you should plant your auto seed in it’s forever pot and not uppot. Why is this?

The reason I choose peat based is that it's pre-buffered and I don't have to worry about pH adjusting my nutrient solution. 5 gallon fabric pots is my preference.

i mainly sprout my seeds in Jiffy plugs and transplant them directly into the 5 gallon bags once the sprout has been above ground for a day. I used to remove the little mesh wrapper on the Jiffy plug but discontinued that process and didn't see a difference. Lately I've forgone the jiffy plug and have soaked my seeds in a week nutrient solution for 24 hours and then planted them in Solo cups filled with my growing medium. It seems to cut a couple days off the germination process vs Jiffy plugs. If I'm doing the Solo cup routine, I let them go until the leaves are able to reach the outside edge of the cups before I transplant. Again I don't think whichever method used has much to do with final size.

Here is where I see myself differing from the mainstream. I have very specific ppm targets for the macro elements when it comes to feeding. That and I do not significantly alter my feed blend from the growth stage to the bloom stage. The ratios remain constant, I just feed higher doses as the plant matures. My full strength fertilizer blend looks close to:

150 ppm N
30 ppm P
200 ppm K
30 ppm Mg
80 ppm Ca
30 ppm S
50 ppm Si

Omg farside I’m not the brightest star in the sky. I have zero idea about chemical and mineral ratios. I have tried to learn it but my my eyes won’t drink in the information and my brain just checks out and starts humming a random tune.

Obviously I don't start a seedling at 100%, but I taper in the feed as they age. For seed sprouting, and their first 5 days above ground, they get 1/5 of the full strength dose, or 30 ppm of N. Every 5 days or so above ground thereafter, I increase by another 1/5. So if I'm watering on day 6 or so, I'm upping their feed to 60 ppm N. Day 11, 90 ppm N, and so on. By around Day 26 I'm finally at 100%, or 150 ppm of N.

Currently I am using my own blend that I call Farside Nutrients Fertilizer, or FN Fertilizer ™, but I have successfully used those targets with various nutrient lines with varying supplements to reach those goals. I've used Dyna Gro Foliage Pro, Mega Crop, Orchidgain, MSU Orchid Fertilizer, and Jacks for tap Water, as a base, all with good results. I've created my own spreadsheet to make calculations so I can tweak the base nutrients with additives to get to my goals. There's other calculators available that will do the same but I find some of them cumbersome to operate.

I am so in awe that you can make your own nutes. And your grows demonstrate how well they work! If you ever go mainstream and decide to start a nute company let me know! I will be a customer fo sho!

While I'm increasing their feed, I'm also increasing their light intensity. I use a lux meter for my measurements. Beware, light meter apps for cell phones aren't very accurate. They're better on iPhones but horrible for Androids. For the first 5 days above ground I'll be around 8-10k lux. Day 6-10 around 12k, Day 11-15 20k, Day 16-20 25k, Day 21-26 35k, Day 26+ 50k.

I don’t understand lux and growing, and I think my lux is different. I did measure it early on as I was advised to. My lux can get to 135k outside under my Queensland sun.

So we've talked about feed and light, how about training. I try to top around node 5, which typically is around Day 21-23.

Now training, it seems my sun creates a tall looking extremely leggy plant to start with

Big leaves, long stalk, not too many branches.

Exhibit A

For this reason I wondered if topping at node 3 would be a better option. The Auto I am currently training hasn’t had the rapid growth you would expect due to my freezing temps. Something I will factor in perpetually going forward.

I've had one get to node 6 but basically I want to have my topping done no more than 3 days after I see they've declared sex. I do not remove any of the lower nodes at this time, like one would do if quadlining. I may remove node 1 later if I see it's not going to account for much. From there I bowl train. Using pipe cleaners and binder clips that are attached to the edges of the fabric pot. Lately I've been using some of the red 90 degree plant benders but you have to use extreme caution with them or you can easily break a stem.

Omg if I had a dollar every time I broke off an arm I could buy the internet! Lollling!

They do make it easier to water though since you don't have all the wires in the way. I've never been able to get super aggressive on training because I typically have 4 plants in the tent and run out of horizontal space.

As far as defoliation, I might take off a few bottom leaves to make it easier to water, but otherwise leave them go until several weeks after bloom. Then I'll clean up the bottoms good and de-larf them. If I need to thin the middle of the plant, I'll take off some inner fan leaves for better light penetration. Lately after topping, I may take off the top two upper fan leaves too for better light penetration to the lower nodes.

I’m a bit of a defoller. I like to create a green tutu and see her legs.

So all of the above applies to any thing I grow, photo or auto. The only thing that I would say is auto specific is genetics. Sometimes the difference between a small, average, and exceptional auto is out of your control. Probably not what you wanted to hear. With a photo, if you have a smaller plant, you can always choose to veg it longer until it gets the size you want, then flip it. With autos, that's not the case since you aren't in control of when the plant switches itself to bloom. Not all auto strains are created equal. Some breeders may have better auto genetics than others, and some breeders may have some strains that produce fantastic plants consistently, while other strains may be average or sub par. Growing autos is a hunt for finding those breeder/strain combos that get you great yields in a short timeframe.

I didn’t know this tbh. I must have got lucky. My first two autos have been lovely plants which were only let down by my training.

Some of my hunting results.... Personally I find Fastbuds Blue Dream and Girl Scout Cookies to be big yielders. Many of Fastbuds strains are above average in size and weight, but they're damn pricey! I don't like paying $13 a seed.

Omg I’ve paid $25! For one seed!

Nirvana's Original Glue has been incredibly uniform, plant to plant, yields great, and requires very little training. A personal favorite. A couple of their other strains, although good quality bud, just don't tip the scales as much. I grew two strains from Weedseed Express and both were disappointing. Plenty of members have had success with their photos, but for me and their autos, I'll pass. They may have a good strain or two in there somewhere, but I spent too much time and effort for lackluster yields (did 2 crops of them or 8 plants total). I grew about 6 strains from Sweet Seeds and never got anything of size or weight either. I'm currently weeding my way (see what I did there) through some of the catalog of @Expert Seedbank. Their Tropicana Cookies Purple looks solid. The Bruce Banner should be fine. It's a late developer. I was worried about them a couple weeks ago since the colas we're so spindly. The Blueberry Glues are to young to guage yet and I just ordered 4 more of their strains.

My grows are not yield driven. I barely smoke. It’s a beautiful plant that drives my grow. Your plants are breathtaking.

Hopefully some of my ramblings answered a question or two, or at least gave you a synopsis of my threads so far so that you don't have to wade through the many pages.

It was a privilege to swim in your pages of growing, bruv. Your plants are on fleek!

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain to me. I really appreciate it.

For you —->

 

[farside05]

Good morning farside

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me. I am most relieved I can just train them the same way I train my 12:12 plants. I have found a method of training I really enjoy so I’m stoked I can stick to that.


I started my auto in a seed tray using a Searles seeds mix, like I do all my seeds, then went seedling pot, then into her forever pot. I actually prefer to uppot 4-5 times. It’s the way I’ve always started house plants. I have read you should plant your auto seed in it’s forever pot and not uppot. Why is this?


Omg farside I’m not the brightest star in the sky. I have zero idea about chemical and mineral ratios. I have tried to learn it but my my eyes won’t drink in the information and my brain just checks out and starts humming a random tune.

I am so in awe that you can make your own nutes. And your grows demonstrate how well they work! If you ever go mainstream and decide to start a nute company let me know! I will be a customer fo sho!

I don’t understand lux and growing, and I think my lux is different. I did measure it early on as I was advised to. My lux can get to 135k outside under my Queensland sun.

Now training, it seems my sun creates a tall looking extremely leggy plant to start with

Big leaves, long stalk, not too many branches.

Exhibit A

For this reason I wondered if topping at node 3 would be a better option. The Auto I am currently training hasn’t had the rapid growth you would expect due to my freezing temps. Something I will factor in perpetually going forward.

Omg if I had a dollar every time I broke off an arm I could buy the internet! Lollling!

I’m a bit of a defoller. I like to create a green tutu and see her legs.

I didn’t know this tbh. I must have got lucky. My first two autos have been lovely plants which were only let down by my training.

Omg I’ve paid $25! For one seed!

My grows are not yield driven. I barely smoke. It’s a beautiful plant that drives my grow. Your plants are breathtaking.

It was a privilege to swim in your pages of growing, bruv. Your plants are on fleek!

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain to me. I really appreciate it.

For you —->

I'll work on a full response. A whole lot of drinks, Awake 27 hours straight and only 2.5 hours of sleep before that, and then a bag of Northern Lights Vapor. This Post alone took over a half hour to compose.

 

[Trala]

I'll work on a full response. A whole lot of drinks, Awake 27 hours straight and only 2.5 hours of sleep before that, and then a bag of Northern Lights Vapor. This Post alone took over a half hour to compose.

L O L L I N G !

Oiii it’s not a successful post nightshift for me until I fall into a hysterical sobbing exhausted mess over absolutely nothing. Thankfully 10 hours of uninterrupted dreamless sleep usually follows.

 

[farside05]

L O L L I N G !

Oiii it’s not a successful post nightshift for me until I fall into a hysterical sobbing exhausted mess over absolutely nothing. Thankfully 10 hours of uninterrupted dreamless sleep usually follows.

The only way I can sleep more than 4 hours at a time is to be fully loaded.

 

[farside05]

Day 20

They're getting it in gear now. Probably 3 more days till topping.

IMG_20220724_093853.jpg

• farside05
• Jul 24, 2022

On a real bad note. The air conditioner I spent $900 on a month and a half ago is officially dead. The replacement is going to cost $8,000. Ouch! Temps in the weed lab will likely be mid 80's until Wednesday when they come to replace Humpty.

 

[InTheShed]

The air conditioner I spent $900 on a month and a half ago is officially dead. The replacement is going to cost $8,000.

I hope you're getting your money back on the first one at least. Why the big price difference?

Temps in the weed lab will likely be mid 80's until Wednesday

Sounds ideal for growing cannabis to me!

 

[farside05]

I hope you're getting your money back on the first one at least. Why the big price difference?

Sounds ideal for growing cannabis to me!

The $900 a month ago was spent on the same unit that needs replaced. We've been kicking this can down the road for probably 8 years. Last month they put in 7 lbs of freon and a dose of leak seal. That will have been the 3rd time over 8 years that's been done. It's finally bad enough that the band aids won't keep her alive anymore. I'm thankful the HVAC guy even took the job. The access hole to the attic, where the unit is, is not that large. At first he said that I'd have to have someone come out and put in a pulldown set of stairs before he could do the job. Getting a contractor to show up around here if near impossible. If I had to have stairs installed first, it would be January before I could get a new AC unit. He eventually said he'd do it without a set of stairs, which means he has to disassemble the new unit to make it smaller pieces, and then reassemble once in the attic. I'll be paying a big portion of the $8000 for labor, but I'd have to spend big on getting stairs put in otherwise. Either way I loose. At least this way the job will be done Wednesday.

 

[InTheShed]

That's fast for AC this time of year!

 

[Trala]

The only way I can sleep more than 4 hours at a time is to be fully loaded.

Do you go for a walk after your night shift? I find it really helps me wind down and reconcile the nights events. Tho full disclosure I only do two in 5 days. Each fortnight part of my roster is a night, finish 7am Sunday, back 7am Monday, 7am Tuesday then 9pm Wednesday for a night.

 

[Trala]

Day 20

They're getting it in gear now. Probably 3 more days till topping.

IMG_20220724_093853.jpg

• farside05
• Jul 24, 2022

On a real bad note. The air conditioner I spent $900 on a month and a half ago is officially dead. The replacement is going to cost $8,000. Ouch! Temps in the weed lab will likely be mid 80's until Wednesday when they come to replace Humpty.

Mine are so far behind yours. The cold temperatures are really effecting my growth. Something I was wondering. I grow very tall plants, the node spacing is very wide. Tends to make my plants look like ugly ducklings to begin with tbh, but if I use my wedding cake as my guid, they soon turn swanish.

Is it possible to top at node 3 on my auto to help control the height or would you not recommend this?

 

[farside05]

I have read you should plant your auto seed in it’s forever pot and not uppot. Why is this?

The theory is you don't want to stunt them. Like most theories here, it's probably just bunk. I don't really see any difference between those I immediately transplant in Jiffy plugs and those I grow for about10 days in Solo cups and then transplant.

Omg farside I’m not the brightest star in the sky. I have zero idea about chemical and mineral ratios. I have tried to learn it but my my eyes won’t drink in the information and my brain just checks out and starts humming a random tune.

I am so in awe that you can make your own nutes. And your grows demonstrate how well they work! If you ever go mainstream and decide to start a nute company let me know! I will be a customer fo sho!

There's tutorials and product lists and weights in these threads for all the FN Fertilizer ™ products. The initial cost for the salts does get pricey though.

I don’t understand lux and growing, and I think my lux is different. I did measure it early on as I was advised to. My lux can get to 135k outside under my Queensland sun.

That's possible. My outdoor girl was getting 95k lux at noon and I guess that it would be even greater at 3PM since that's when it's hottest on the deck. My lux numbers are for indoors under a lamp that's burning 20 hours a day. I haven't bothered to work out the Daily Light Integral of what that works out to.

Now training, it seems my sun creates a tall looking extremely leggy plant to start with

Big leaves, long stalk, not too many branches.

Ammoniacal Nitrogen is said to create leggy plants with more internodal spacing. Do you know which type or blend of Nitrogen you are using?

For this reason I wondered if topping at node 3 would be a better option.

I've never tried topping an auto that soon so I don't have a point if reference.

My grows are not yield driven. I barely smoke. It’s a beautiful plant that drives my grow.

Originally I had one tent, only the wife was consuming,. I was over-producing and found myself sitting on 42oz of "spare bud". Now I have two tents and can barely keep up. Let's just say that I have a lot more people helping to smoke that bud now.

 

[farside05]

Day 22

Topping within the next couple days. Yesterday they all got a gallon of the 8's.

IMG_20220726_075619.jpg

• farside05
• Jul 26, 2022

 

[InTheShed]

They look FN happy!

 

[Trala]

The theory is you don't want to stunt them. Like most theories here, it's probably just bunk.

Well I think I will soon see. I uppotted my 26 day old auto yesterday. I was unhappy with her height, so I shaved off the base nodes and I buried them. She’s now in an 18L pot. I just don’t see how it would make any difference, like if I compare it to a house or yard plant.

I don't really see any difference between those I immediately transplant in Jiffy plugs and those I grow for about10 days in Solo cups and then transplant.

I’ll get back to you. Lolling

There's tutorials and product lists and weights in these threads for all the FN Fertilizer ™ products. The initial cost for the salts does get pricey though.

Omg I don’t understand nutes at all. So far I’ve just had people in here recommend and I’ve purchased. I was using MC but you can’t get that here anymore.

That's possible. My outdoor girl was getting 95k lux at noon and I guess that it would be even greater at 3PM since that's when it's hottest on the deck. My lux numbers are for indoors under a lamp that's burning 20 hours a day. I haven't bothered to work out the Daily Light Integral of what that works out to.

My grows are a mix of sun and light. I veg for 18 hours and flower for 12. Well ideally 12. I found out by accident that I’d somehow bumped my timer tongs so my flower light was coming on for around 90mins in the middle of her 12 hours of darkness for a few weeks. I clutched my pearls in horror! Lucky no signs of herming. I am starting to think plants are hardier than I first realised when it comes to light conditions.

Ammoniacal Nitrogen is said to create leggy plants with more internodal spacing. Do you know which type or blend of Nitrogen you are using?

Omg I’d have no idea. I can get some pics of the containers if you want to see tho. If you don’t wan’t me to clutter your journal I could link them in the journal I have. I’d be interested in whether you think they are okay. I don’t get all that science. I want to, but my brain won’t concentrate. I just want to be told yep or nup. These nutes are perfect for my grow. Wet and forget for 4 weeks.

I've never tried topping an auto that soon so I don't have a point if reference.

Point of reference will soon be in motion. Actually I think I’d prefer to get to four nodes, bury the first nodes to bring it to topping at three. If that makes sense.

Originally I had one tent, only the wife was consuming,. I was over-producing and found myself sitting on 42oz of "spare bud". Now I have two tents and can barely keep up. Let's just say that I have a lot more people helping to smoke that bud now.

I grow for my son. He had no money in his pocket and he was keeping ole mate cashed up. He’s a good kid, works full time, house, partner, two kids, life going in a great direction so the stars aligned and I decided to grow for him. I have been growing since joining here. It’s a hobby I really enjoy.

I’m trying to master perpetual growing. Omg it’s easier said than done.

 

[farside05]

Day 23

At 23 days is when I look to top. I don't see any signs of showing sex yet so I'll let them go another couple days. Did a bit of tucking to expose the lower growth that was buried under fans.

IMG_20220727_215931.jpg

• farside05
• Jul 27, 2022

 

[InTheShed]

You should just fess up and credit the Tent Chicken.

 

[farside05]

You should just fess up and credit the Tent Chicken.

Tent Chickens are like Calgon, an ancient Chinese secret.

 

[farside05]

Day 26

The back right plant just showed sex so I'll top her in the AM. Didn't do it today as I wanted a bit more space between nodes where I'm gonna top. The others will probably follow soon too.

IMG_20220729_073511.jpg

• farside05
• Jul 29, 2022

 

[farside05]

Day 27

Topped the back right this AM.

IMG_20220729_073511.jpg

• farside05
• Jul 30, 2022

 

[InTheShed]

Good call!