Graytail's 3rd: 4x4, HiBrix, Latest LED Tech, Lots Of Light!

Rascio said:
Maybe high Mg soils deter fungal hyphae formation or mycorrhyzal associations, or both.

Glomarin adds tilth to the soil . . . Could it be that the soil structure issues you were talking about earlier is a result of too much of a good thing?
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That crossed my mind, but it doesn't sound right. Remember, the Lab works with outdoor gardens with permanent soil cultures. At what rates do plants uptake calcium vs magnesium? Maybe it leaves excess mag in the soil. But that would also mean that mag encourages robust hyphae networks. :hmmmm: Or vice versa ...

SweetSue said:
So we're back to the differences in the soil. If the soil mix deters myco associations that might explain why they get added so much. That was always curious to me. It takes myco about 3-4 months to form solid associations, and then those connections increase in efficiency the longer you leave then undisturbed. You should only need them added when you plant. Proper maintenance of my no-till means I really don't need to add any more to my pot, because the community is already well established.

Graytail, is it possible to beef up your nitrogen needs with something as simple as tossing some comfrey leaves on as a mulch a couple weeks before the CAT?
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I've considered learning about teas and using them to tweak soil conditions. :cheesygrinsmiley: It sounds like a lot of tedious learning, though - I'm a Kit user - I like the easy lazy methods. :laughtwo:

Nope, it seems simple. Get more cation sites and more cations to fill 'em. It's easy enough to get the cations - I need to find a way to get more sites. I think ... :hmmm:
 
I had to take some branches from BHxBB yesterday - there was some mold encroaching. It was just a few branches on one side, so I'll check it every day and prune accordingly. She's trying her best to do another surge, but she's gonna lose the race to the PM. No real harm though - it's nice and ripe. :yahoo: This will be an interesting one to sample - can't wait to see if much of the Blue Blood CBD came through.

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Here's what was happening. Most of that will trim off though, and the wash will kill the rest. :cheesygrinsmiley:
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I was impressed at how hefty those few branches were - felt like a half ounce or so. Yield should be interesting. :slide:
 
Thanks for the closeup pictures. I wanted to ask, but I didn't know how painful it was. Should have known better. Now I know what it looks like. The colas look beautifully dense. And yummy. Having a tasting party Graytail?

Wow! Wouldn't that be fun? Monthly get togethers where we could sample what everyone else is growing? Ahhhh.... A girl can dream.

Wasn't I going back to bed?
 
Graytail said:
The Kit contains biochar. :cheesygrinsmiley: As I recall, it's used as a coating on one of the pelletized mineral compounds. The Lab is steeped in high-CEC methods and I'm confidant they have the value right where they want it. The amendments are very well engineered, right down to pellet sizes and makeups and blends. But they don't anticipate potted plants. They recommend that you till it into the top 7-8 inches of soil. From there, it percolates downward, different minerals at different rates, so the pellets are designed for that. Watering pots is different.

My 6 gallon pots are smaller than other growers, and I get leaf stress that the growers in 10+ gallon pots simply don't get, and I'm convinced that it's because of my small pots, so I'm trying to understand what the limiting factors are and maybe find some workarounds. I could probably feed heavily with Energy all the way through bloom, but that's cheating - that's not feeding soil - that's feeding the plant. I'd like to find a synergistic method to ramp up CEC and soil biota and see if I can't get some harmony between my pot size and the size of plant I want.

I like the 15 inch square pots - they fit so well in my 48x57 inch room. I've looked at larger pots and the softies are round, which won't work, and there isn't much selection of 15 inch square pots. Mine are actually 13 inches of soil, because of the 1 inch lip on the pot. An extra 2 inches would get me a couple more gallons, which would be about right, I think. I've also looked into milk crates with felt liners. There are a couple sizes that could work for me. :slide: Meanwhile ... I'd like to figure out this cation load and release process first - see if I can't keep the little 6 gallon pots.

The instructions don't say to feed Transplant right before Cationic drench, so it can't be a necessary thing, but it makes sense. The Cat drench will release the cations, which will have a high proportion of Potassium because it's adsorbed so easily, along with Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium, etc. I don't get enough Nitrogen from my soil, so ... is something grabbing the site and elbowing Nitrogen out, or do I have less N in the soil than I should ... ? What would a solid pre-drench of Transplant do? :hmmm:
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So many ideas in this post, so many of which I would only be guessing at. Don't forget what happened to Webster!

[er, link didnt work -- google 'far side cerebral cortex]

I mentioned biochar because I was trying to think of ways to increase CEC without upsetting anything. Is there a downside to adding more of the stuff? People that sell it recommend quite large quantities ... like pounds in a small flowerbed.

Probably im missing something but biochar, with its adsorptive and absorbing properties might be the ticket to make your 6 gals behave more like 10s. The absorption has the potential (at least in my head) to extend the CEC at the surface. Absorbed ions or salts may be in equilibrium with the surface ions, resuppling as adsorption sites become available.

As for the nitty gritty details of cationic exchange ... I simply don't have enough plant physiology to really understand what you're talking about.

(since when has that stopped me from talking?)

I know that anionic nitrogen favours veg growth, and ammonia favours reproductive growth. No idea why as yet . . . Just fascinated by the cool way that the kit goes about the switch.

Prior to the CAT drench, what are the sources of cationic nitrogen?

Fish guts

Theres gotta be some amino acids, dipeptides, small polypeptide fragments (bits of protein), in worm castings

Free ranging nitrogen fixing bacteria. Probably we innoculate with the tea?

Decomposition of dead microbes.

Any others?

Once the SFW gets going, a certain level of fixed nitrogen will be available. In pots, theres gotta be a point where the SFW can no longer provide all the N a growing, flowering plant needs.

So much to think about . . .

Cheers! :peace::passitleft:
 
Graytail said:
That crossed my mind, but it doesn't sound right. Remember, the Lab works with outdoor gardens with permanent soil cultures. At what rates do plants uptake calcium vs magnesium? Maybe it leaves excess mag in the soil. But that would also mean that mag encourages robust hyphae networks. :hmmmm: Or vice versa ...

... :hmmm:
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Yeah, and their first recommendation to farmers is bring in some truckloads of ag lime to start, then topdress thereafter. They're doing high brix too ...
 
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I just wanted to tell you how beautiful this picture was. At least it was to me. Good morning Graytail. :battingeyelashes:
 
"The instructions don't say to feed Transplant right before Cationic drench, so it can't be a necessary thing, but it makes sense. The Cat drench will release the cations, which will have a high proportion of Potassium because it's adsorbed so easily, along with Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium, etc. I don't get enough Nitrogen from my soil, so ... is something grabbing the site and elbowing Nitrogen out, or do I have less N in the soil than I should ... ? What would a solid pre-drench of Transplant do?"



edited to move my words..i believe CAT drench has transplant in it.. :)
 
i am trying a dose of 1 ml of CAT in my ACE clone, followed with a gallon of water in 10 gal softees.. i think its the Panama, with GE and a little Transplant and Tea..I am trying to introduce the CD slowly, as to not slam the ferrari into reverse whilst going 175 mph :)


i will use water and tea next, then a full dose of CAT on her.. :)
 
DrZiggy said:
"The instructions don't say to feed Transplant right before Cationic drench, so it can't be a necessary thing, but it makes sense. The Cat drench will release the cations, which will have a high proportion of Potassium because it's adsorbed so easily, along with Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium, etc. I don't get enough Nitrogen from my soil, so ... is something grabbing the site and elbowing Nitrogen out, or do I have less N in the soil than I should ... ? What would a solid pre-drench of Transplant do?"



edited to move my words..i believe CAT drench has transplant in it.. :)
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Hey Ziggs....ya mon, CD is 90% Transplant. So go easy on it if your gonna go crazy with the CD right after....sure way to crusty burnt tips and leaves....just sayin brotha!
 
Cat Drench has the same NPK fish emulsion that Transplant has, but it adds ammonium phosphate and ammonium sulphate along with some trace minerals. The ammoniums are what makes Cat Drench work. :cheesygrinsmiley:

So, yeah, good point - it sounds like the nutrients/cations are covered in the drench. :hmmm: So it's back to amping up the CEC somehow.

And Duggan ... BHxBB is a truly ugly thing and I think you may be right. With the OG on the Blue Blood side, I didn't figure her for a light feeder and she obviously was having some N issues, but now I'm pretty sure I overfed her good. :cheesygrinsmiley:


[Edit] I found this description of the Kit ingredients:

Amendment: Limestone, Gypsum, Soft Rock Phosphate, Biochar, organic fertilizer and trace elements.
Re-charge: similar to amendment
Roots!: Rock powders, biochar, organic fertilizer and myco
Tea: Liquid humic acid and LOADS of beneficials. Stupid strong.
Transplant: Liquid fish, Chilean Nitrate
Growth Energy: Liquid Calcium Nitrate
Cat Drench: Liquid fish, Ammonium phosphate, Ammonium sulphate, trace elements
Brix: Liquid fish, phosphoric acid, Calcium phosphate, dextrose.
DeStress: Liquid fish, phosphoric acid, naturally occurring plant growth regulators derived from kelp, trace elements.

:Namaste:
 
Graytail said:
Cat Drench has the same NPK fish emulsion that Transplant has, but it adds ammonium phosphate and ammonium sulphate along with some trace minerals. The ammoniums are what makes Cat Drench work. :cheesygrinsmiley:

So, yeah, good point - it sounds like the nutrients/cations are covered in the drench. :hmmm: So it's back to amping up the CEC somehow.

And Duggan ... BHxBB is a truly ugly thing and I think you may be right. With the OG on the Blue Blood side, I didn't figure her for a light feeder and she obviously was having some N issues, but now I'm pretty sure I overfed her good. :cheesygrinsmiley:


[Edit] I found this description of the Kit ingredients:

Amendment: Limestone, Gypsum, Soft Rock Phosphate, Biochar, organic fertilizer and trace elements.
Re-charge: similar to amendment
Roots!: Rock powders, biochar, organic fertilizer and myco
Tea: Liquid humic acid and LOADS of beneficials. Stupid strong.
Transplant: Liquid fish, Chilean Nitrate
Growth Energy: Liquid Calcium Nitrate
Cat Drench: Liquid fish, Ammonium phosphate, Ammonium sulphate, trace elements
Brix: Liquid fish, phosphoric acid, Calcium phosphate, dextrose.
DeStress: Liquid fish, phosphoric acid, naturally occurring plant growth regulators derived from kelp, trace elements.

:Namaste:
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Hey Gray...excellent list my brotha...that should help out a bunch of growers who have doubts or questions on the Kit ! Thanks again eh! :thumb:
 
Heheh, the BHxBB that I took down from the mold is washed and dried and in the jar, and ... sheesh ... 21 grams? It was 4 entire branches and 2 side stems. I have 10-12 more branches and countless side stems ... :thedoubletake:

:hmmmm: ... 100 gram harvest? :yahoo:
 
Not bad at all buckaroo. :high-five:
 
It's time to put in another plug for Smart Grow Technologies and their Par-Force LED panels. :cheertwo:

I got this panel as one of the prizes for Plant of the Year back in February and I've been using it for veg ever since. It was sort of an awkward thing for me, because it was a surprise prize :cheesygrinsmiley: and it was Very expensive at $1295. I felt this terrible responsibility to put it to good use, but I have a very modest little makeshift grow and I didn't have the space to use it by itself, and in the manner it was intended. Instead, I managed to fit it into my understair area along with my 250 MH and a couple 4x23w CFL reflectors - a mishmash - hard to know what's helping what, y'know?

Well, as it turns out, it's been grrreat! :yahoo: It's a full 38 inches long, so it almost reaches from edge to edge in a 4x4, and my veg area works beautifully at 30 inches by 4 feet. So the Par-Force runs along the rear 4 feet with the MH in the front left and the CFLs in the front middle and right. I can get 3 of my 15 inch pots under it, or one 15 inch and four (eight, actually, two deep) 7 inch 1.5 gallon pots. It's just beautiful. :cheesygrinsmiley: I've been running my plants at 12 inches under it, so I'm getting 300-500 umols across the entire 5 square feet. The growth I'm getting mimics CFLs :cheesygrinsmiley: not a surprise when you realize that there are 764 chips spread out over a 9 inch by 36 inch? area - fantastic dispersion! - nice tight nodes and luxurious spiking leaves. Enough CFLs to cover that area with that intensity would be high wattage and hot. And the Par-Force runs silently - no fans - and very very cool. I bet you could run this panel in a cupboard grow with a little exhaust ventilation - it's Very cool.

I can and do recommend this panel wholeheartedly, especially since they've lowered the price once again! At $5 per watt, I wasn't a bit impressed with it. :laughtwo: But it's now $500! That's $2 per watt and entirely worth it - completely competitive - and this is some pretty impressive technology they're developing. Seriously, readers and fans - check it out - read the product literature - very interesting stuff now that it's competitively priced.

:thumb:

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https://smartgrowtechnologies.com/product/par-force-240-watt-led-grow-light-norcal-red-blend/
 
Thanks for the candid review. It's nice to hear about it from people you feel you can trust. How sweet that they lowered the price. No heat at all huh?

I checked out the info and immediately thought " Oh, that would fit in my Tiny Closet." :laughtwo:

But it would. :battingeyelashes:
 
SweetSue said:
Thanks for the candid review. It's nice to hear about it from people you feel you can trust. How sweet that they lowreed the price. No heat at all huh?
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I haven't quantified it, but it's shockingly low. I'm running it without the reds, so it's pulling about 190 watts, equivalent to 8x23 watt CFLs. You know how hot those are. :cheesygrinsmiley: Occasionally I brush a bare arm against the edge of the CFL reflector, and Ow! - that's Hot! The top of the case on the Par-Force is always ... warm ... just warm. :cheesygrinsmiley: I bet it's cooler than T5s, too ... :hmmm:
 
Its dimensions are listed at 38"x 11"
 
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