Graytail's 3rd: 4x4, HiBrix, Latest LED Tech, Lots Of Light!

conradino23 said:
Hmmm I like this Dr Grinspoon it seems it's just Neville's Haze renamed. Well for sure they didn't develop it themselves :laugh:
Click to expand...

That's one of its attractions - if it was a Neville's it would be another one of those "special" wild sativas. All the phenos I've seen of this one have been the typical hybrid habit. I'm not sure how I feel about Barney's. :hmmmm: For some reason I think of them as an opportunist/commercial breeder, but two of my most favorite strains are theirs - Utopia Haze and DrGrinspoon - and both of them are true masterpieces - someone put a lot of work into those lines in order to produce such a fine strain from those genetics. IBLs take time. And the purity of the DrG high is remarkable. The Senor Garcia must have come from some old hippie grower/breeder for it to have survived all these years without being corrupted. I can easily feel all three ancestral highs in the smoke - Thai/HighlandMex/Panama. :Love: :slide:

:yahoo:

But lately I've also realized that these seed lines run in batches. This DrG is this batch - it's a great one - stable, productive and easy - the next batch might be different. I'm wondering what the next fem Destroyer is going to be like. :hmmm: Obviously the last batch sold out.
 
Looking great in here!
 
Looking great Gray I see a lot less whiteflies.

That Freddy got me .
I have 3 Carnival and the stretchy one is my keeper didn't wanted it so I have only 1 clone left.
The other 2 looked so much better and I have 3/4 clones each.
 
I'm really glad to learn of this Dr.Grinspoon strain. THANKS for sharing it! Lester Grinspoon is a wonderful man who went through some very hard times with his son's illness and Mj made the quality of his sons life better, resulting in a better quality of life for the parents of a terminally ill child. I would hope the profits from this strain go to medical research and not into someones bank account.. fingers crossed. I will be purchasing some of those seeds in the future.(first heard of him in Pen and tellers 'bullshit', i believe the war on drugs episode) R.I.P. Danny Grinspoon
 
Make sure to use something in conjunction with the spinosad so they don't develop a resistance. Amazing sugar Graytail. I love visiting here. Just hope each time I arrive that the whiteflies will be gone! Imagine how big and full your ladies will get then!
 
SweetSue said:
"....nice and speedy and a little dangerous." :laughtwo: Right up my alley. Nice description Graytail.

Oooooo.... That Rio3 is looking all ready to go and make her mark. Man, that's a pretty light, isn't it? This Vero 240 is particularly pleasing to the eye. Every morning I look in there and think "Graytail would like this light." :battingeyelashes: :Love:

BB shared with me to use the spinosad every three days. :laughtwo: I'm sorry, the phrase "three days" always sends me into Monty Python land. :rofl:

Let me take another stroll while I have lunch. Thanks for the pick-me-up. :kisstwo:
Click to expand...

I do love the white light! I'd love to convert the bloom room to white COBs. I had such great fun working out a perfect COB array that I'll probably never buy! :laugh:


Doc Bud said:
Looking great in here!
Click to expand...

:thanks: Thanks Doc! This is my bad season, so we're at a bit of a nadir here. It should start getting prettier soon.


Darkgrow said:
Looking great Gray I see a lot less whiteflies.

That Freddy got me .
I have 3 Carnival and the stretchy one is my keeper didn't wanted it so I have only 1 clone left.
The other 2 looked so much better and I have 3/4 clones each.
Click to expand...

The genetics for Freddy's Best sure are enticing. It's Chocolope x Dutch Haze x Unknown Sativa. The only indica in it comes from the Dutch Haze which lists it as an Indian indica. That piques my interest right there. :cheesygrinsmiley: I mention the indica because this isn't a typical sativa habit at all. It was a very slow early grower and it's stayed compact and dense with foliage its entire life. Usually, a leafy plant will thin out in HB soil as it matures, but this one didn't. It looks sorta Skunky in fact. But if the only indica is Indian, it might make it special. The aroma is unique ... can't explain it yet, and it's still developing. It was very orange for awhile but now it went spicy ... dunno.

It's good to hear you still have both Carnival phenos. The buzz from my compact ones isn't as speedy as the taller pheno.


lilybeanz said:
I'm really glad to learn of this Dr.Grinspoon strain. THANKS for sharing it! Lester Grinspoon is a wonderful man who went through some very hard times with his son's illness and Mj made the quality of his sons life better, resulting in a better quality of life for the parents of a terminally ill child. I would hope the profits from this strain go to medical research and not into someones bank account.. fingers crossed. I will be purchasing some of those seeds in the future.(first heard of him in Pen and tellers 'bullshit', i believe the war on drugs episode) R.I.P. Danny Grinspoon
Click to expand...

I can say that the two strains I've grown that were named after cannabis heroes - White Panther and DrGrinspoon - have both been worthy of the honor! :bravo:


ShiggityFlip said:
Make sure to use something in conjunction with the spinosad so they don't develop a resistance. Amazing sugar Graytail. I love visiting here. Just hope each time I arrive that the whiteflies will be gone! Imagine how big and full your ladies will get then!
Click to expand...

:thumb: I gave them a SNS drench today and I'll use their foliar, too. They'll die back soon anyway - it's seasonal - but I want to get some little ones started and I'd like to get rid of the flies first.
 
A couple valentine girls :circle-of-love:

DSCN76291.JPG


DSCN7619-1.jpg
 
Hmmm have you consider companion planting to combat that? I'm just shout thinking here they don't do any serious damage do they?
 
RE Whiteflies:

"Young nymphs overwinter on the leaves of host plants. In late spring adult females deposit 200-400 eggs in circular clusters on the undersides of upper leaves. The eggs hatch in 5-10 days and first instar nymphs, which resemble small mealybugs and are called crawlers, move a short distance from the egg before flattening themselves against the leaf to feed. The remaining nymphal stages (2nd, 3rd and 4th) do not move. A non-feeding pupal stage follows and within a week, young adults emerge to repeat the cycle. There are many generations per year. Whiteflies develop from egg to adult in approximately 25 days at room temperature. Adults may live for one to two months.

Note: All of the immature stages are easily overlooked. They are usually pale, almost translucent, and blend with the color of the leaf to which they are attached. Superficially they are similar to several scale insects.

Management of heavy whitefly infestations is difficult. The best strategy is to prevent problems from developing in your garden or landscape. In many situations, natural enemies will provide adequate control of whiteflies; outbreaks often occur when natural enemies are disrupted by insecticide applications, dusty conditions, or interference by ants. Avoid or remove plants that repeatedly host high populations of whiteflies.

In gardens, whitefly populations in the early stages of population development can be held down by a vigilant program of removing infested leaves or hosing down with water sprays. Reflective mulches can repel whiteflies from vegetable gardens, and yellow sticky traps can be used to monitor or, at high levels, reduce whitefly numbers. If you choose to use insecticides, insecticidal soaps or oils such as neem oil may reduce but not eliminate populations. Systemic insecticides may be more effective but can have negative impacts on beneficial insects and pollinators."
 
:thanks: Thanks Major!

So 5-10 days to hatch, and a 25 day adult life ... :hmmm: ... so if I spray spinosad once a week ...

... and no mention of annihilation ...
 
As I continually research various topics I assemble little factoids, and it occurred to me that I should document and share some of them. :Namaste:

I've looked into lighting and tried to make sense of all the competing marketing jargon:

PAR vs lumens - as long as you understand the difference you can compare lighting using either measure. Lumens are visible light seen by humans, PAR is usable light seen by plants. You can't compare blurple LED lumens to yellow hps lumens, but if you account for the difference, you can.

PAR is measured in micro mols (umols) which is a measure of the actual PAR photons being emitted. But most LED manufacturers focus the LED beam in order to show higher umols, and they don't mention that it's only directly under the panel. :cheesygrinsmiley: A better measure is PPF, which is the total umols being emitted. Most manufacturers won't show this number because it would hurt their marketing efforts.

1500 umols in a 4x4 is near the maximum useful PAR

1000 watts of hps with reflector produces 800-1000 umols.
1000 watts of Cree COBs produce 1000-1400 umols
1000 watts of Gavita DE with reflector produce 1800-2000 umols (? not sure - seems high)
1000 watts of blurple LEDs produce 800-1200 umols

Watts = heat, no way around it. It you're running 1000 watts, it doesn't matter what the light source is, they'll produce the same heat. Cooltubes make a big difference 'cause you can vent the heat before it escapes. Higher flue temps are better.

Cheap stuff runs hotter. If the electronics are less efficient, they make more heat. Efficient electronics (drivers/transformers) are expensive. If you run them at max, they make more heat. The marketing department will always quote maximum output. :cheesygrinsmiley:

Many small lights are always better than one big one. You can get the tops closer and the lightspread is better. And that is more expensive.

Twice as much light will never get you twice as much yield. The best yield per watt is wayyyy down in the 500 umol range. :straightface:

50 watts of light per square foot is as much as most growers can use. That's 800 watts in a 4x4, and 50-70 umols per square foot, depending on the source.

In the end, hps in a cooltube is easily the least expensive. :laugh:
 
Thanks teach! Lots of good info .Gonna bookmark this page when I get home. Great reference indeed. The only thing with more SMALLER lights over a big one is the lack of intensity further down in the canopy. Small LED's just don't have that intensity to get down more than a foot or so. Anyhow great bit of info Gray....thankyou.:thumb:
 
Graytail said:
:thanks: Thanks Major!

So 5-10 days to hatch, and a 25 day adult life ... :hmmm: ... so if I spray spinosad once a week ...

... and no mention of annihilation ...
Click to expand...

In general spinosad has about a 3 day persistence systemically in plants. I would spray every 3-5 days with the spino at a strong concentration, and alternate it with a neem product.
 
Graytail said:
As I continually research various topics I assemble little factoids, and it occurred to me that I should document and share some of them. :Namaste:

I've looked into lighting and tried to make sense of all the competing marketing jargon:

PAR vs lumens - as long as you understand the difference you can compare lighting using either measure. Lumens are visible light seen by humans, PAR is usable light seen by plants. You can't compare blurple LED lumens to yellow hps lumens, but if you account for the difference, you can.

PAR is measured in micro mols (umols) which is a measure of the actual PAR photons being emitted. But most LED manufacturers focus the LED beam in order to show higher umols, and they don't mention that it's only directly under the panel. :cheesygrinsmiley: A better measure is PPF, which is the total umols being emitted. Most manufacturers won't show this number because it would hurt their marketing efforts.

1500 umols in a 4x4 is near the maximum useful PAR

1000 watts of hps with reflector produces 800-1000 umols.
1000 watts of Cree COBs produce 1000-1400 umols
1000 watts of Gavita DE with reflector produce 1800-2000 umols (? not sure - seems high)
1000 watts of blurple LEDs produce 800-1200 umols

Watts = heat, no way around it. It you're running 1000 watts, it doesn't matter what the light source is, they'll produce the same heat. Cooltubes make a big difference 'cause you can vent the heat before it escapes. Higher flue temps are better.

Cheap stuff runs hotter. If the electronics are less efficient, they make more heat. Efficient electronics (drivers/transformers) are expensive. If you run them at max, they make more heat. The marketing department will always quote maximum output. :cheesygrinsmiley:

Many small lights are always better than one big one. You can get the tops closer and the lightspread is better. And that is more expensive.

Twice as much light will never get you twice as much yield. The best yield per watt is wayyyy down in the 500 umol range. :straightface:

50 watts of light per square foot is as much as most growers can use. That's 800 watts in a 4x4, and 50-70 umols per square foot, depending on the source.

In the end, hps in a cooltube is easily the least expensive. :laugh:
Click to expand...

I have one part of this that I want to run by you. BY heat I am thinking you mean heat directly produced by the light source and not by the ballast. Light is radiation and radiation produces heat. And it will be the same for each source for the same amount of light produced (photons). But efficiency comes into play as well. All light sources have a ballast or driver. My magnetic ballasts produce far more heat than my electronic ones, due to their reduced efficiency at turning power into photons. So the electronic ballast plus bulb produces less total heat than a magnetic ballast plus bulb of the same energy output.

Ok one more thing. The umols produced by HPS and by LED are approximately equivalent depending on the bulb used or LED used. But the spectrum of each is vastly different. We can easily saturate the red spectrum using an HPS or the Blue spectrum using LEDs. But combined together I think their complementation of spectrum can give a synergistic effect. Each provides what the other lacks.
 
duggan said:
Thanks teach! Lots of good info .Gonna bookmark this page when I get home. Great reference indeed. The only thing with more SMALLER lights over a big one is the lack of intensity further down in the canopy. Small LED's just don't have that intensity to get down more than a foot or so. Anyhow great bit of info Gray....thankyou.:thumb:
Click to expand...

Actually, that's one of the points that gets confused. It's not the size or wattage of the individual bulbs, it's their total output as a group. 5 watt LEDs don't penetrate any differently than 3 watt LEDs or even big COBs. It's purely total power. The rest of it all has to do with the focus. If you beam the entire panel straight down, all the output goes straight down - better penetration. But outside the footprint, everything else gets screwed.


ShiggityFlip said:
I have one part of this that I want to run by you. BY heat I am thinking you mean heat directly produced by the light source and not by the ballast. Light is radiation and radiation produces heat. And it will be the same for each source for the same amount of light produced (photons). But efficiency comes into play as well. All light sources have a ballast or driver. My magnetic ballasts produce far more heat than my electronic ones, due to their reduced efficiency at turning power into photons. So the electronic ballast plus bulb produces less total heat than a magnetic ballast plus bulb of the same energy output.

Ok one more thing. The umols produced by HPS and by LED are approximately equivalent depending on the bulb used or LED used. But the spectrum of each is vastly different. We can easily saturate the red spectrum using an HPS or the Blue spectrum using LEDs. But combined together I think their complementation of spectrum can give a synergistic effect. Each provides what the other lacks.
Click to expand...

My numbers are by no means exact, but they're accurate, if I can make the distinction. :laugh: I think you have to include the ballasts/drivers in the heat equation. As you say, that's where a lot of the heat is produced. The best LED drivers are 95% efficient. Old magnetic ballasts aren't even remotely close to that - an expensive top quality electronic hps ballast runs much cooler.

But I believe these numbers are PAR umols, so they're comparable from source to source. As far as spectrum tinkering, I still think that's small stuff. Higher PAR accomplishes the same thing, unless you already have most of your other environmental variables nailed down and you're looking for those last few advantages.
 
Back
Top Bottom