Got My Feet Wet Now It's Time To Dive In

[Closet Farmer]

day 21 of flower, I did my best to flush, well maybe did it to good. and I know you all need pics but thats friday.
anyway I have alot of older groth fan leaves going yellow on me so I gave them some extra N in their water yesterday, not sure if part of the reason was that they could still be in shock from the serious trimming I have done.
rekon sinse my pension check came today I'am going to the hydro store and get me a jug of sledgehammer to see if that helps with lockout. other then that the colas are filling in quite nicely.

Hey there Fish! I don't think the trimming would make the plants go in shock. I would cut the older growth fan leaves off. Mine are starting to turn yellow too. As long as the newer fan leaves are green you should be ok. I always see the older fan leaves slowly turn yellow and die during 12/12. Not sure if the sledgehammer will do what you want it to do.
Look forward to see the pics.

 

[GigaGrew]

day 21 of flower, I did my best to flush, well maybe did it to good. and I know you all need pics but thats friday.
anyway I have alot of older groth fan leaves going yellow on me so I gave them some extra N in their water yesterday, not sure if part of the reason was that they could still be in shock from the serious trimming I have done.
rekon sinse my pension check came today I'am going to the hydro store and get me a jug of sledgehammer to see if that helps with lockout. other then that the colas are filling in quite nicely.

They getting on in years brother and are about to collect their own last pension check in a few short weeks.
Depending on the species traits, non-some or heavy leaf yellowing and atrophy can be expected.
It could be perfectly natural. how healthy do the bud sites look? i would probably be reducing my N around now, not increasing it

 

[fish cake]

@ CF and Gig thank you for responding I gave them a heavy dose of big bloom(bat guano and worm castings) so will see what yall think friday

 

[jandre2k3]

day 21 of flower, I did my best to flush, well maybe did it to good. and I know you all need pics but thats friday.
anyway I have alot of older groth fan leaves going yellow on me so I gave them some extra N in their water yesterday, not sure if part of the reason was that they could still be in shock from the serious trimming I have done.
rekon sinse my pension check came today I'am going to the hydro store and get me a jug of sledgehammer to see if that helps with lockout. other then that the colas are filling in quite nicely.

Hey there Fish! I don't think the trimming would make the plants go in shock. I would cut the older growth fan leaves off. Mine are starting to turn yellow too. As long as the newer fan leaves are green you should be ok. I always see the older fan leaves slowly turn yellow and die during 12/12. Not sure if the sledgehammer will do what you want it to do.
Look forward to see the pics.

Mind if I rant? I know some of you have see this one before, but I feel that it warrants a re-post.

---

One thing people seem to FAIL to recognize, and often quote the opposite, is one simple fact.

Plants are ENCOURAGED to grow taller/bigger/stronger when damage occurs. Most people say that this stresses the plant and therefore is bad. OF COURSE IT DOES!! THAT'S THE POINT!! But stress is not always a bad thing.

Placing a fan in your grow stresses a plant and makes stronger stems, even though most people only do it to get good air circulation. The biggest reason most people forget (or don't know) is that blowing around in the wind is what CAUSES the big strong stems that hold up those huge colas.

When you snip/clip/prune/defoliate ANY plant, the plant responds by growing new stronger growth. It's a survival response. Anyone ever heard of TRUNK PIERCING?! I used to do it all the time in my larger grows. it causes very hearty growth in the veg stage because the plant believes it is constantly under attack and therefore grows stronger and stronger. When leaves are pulled, in order to survive, the plant grows more to replace what was lost. If this did not happen, eventually the same stressor, repeated would strip the plant completely and it would die. The general response, when lateral growth is removed, vertical growth is the response. I believe to possibly get above whatever has been biting on the sides.

Think of it like this. A deer comes along and munches the sides of a plant. The plant responds by growing taller, and adding weight to stems, and putting out more leaves/growth higher up. Eventually the deer would not be able to reach the vegetation it is after and wanders off in search of something else, thus the plant survives.

Adversely, when we top a plant, it responds by growing more girth and almost doubles it's lateral growth. In the deer scenario, eventually the deer will not be able to reach the inside of the plant where there is green, and the plant survives, and then can grow taller.

I know a lot of you are thinking, "A plant doesn't just make a decision to grow a certain way," and you'd be right: There is no thinking about it. But hormonal differences in plant tips, and stems, and trunks, are what causes this, and thus the response is the same. do you make a decision to scar over when you are cut? Poor example of course, but it does sort of prove my point here. Cells do what they're told to do by the circumstances they are presented. Cause and effect. When you work out, are you not sore the day after? Do you not grow stronger because of the torn muscle tissue regowing and increasing to withstand that stress later? Repeated stress of this sort can cause a dramatic change in muscle tone and bulk and strength of the tissue. The same thing can be observed in plants. Supercropping, for example...

 

[Heirloom]

Nice, jandre2k3. Well stated.

And yes, trunk piercing. I was considering playing with that one some day.

 

[fish cake]

Mind if I rant? I know some of you have see this one before, but I feel that it warrants a re-post.

---

One thing people seem to FAIL to recognize, and often quote the opposite, is one simple fact.

Plants are ENCOURAGED to grow taller/bigger/stronger when damage occurs. Most people say that this stresses the plant and therefore is bad. OF COURSE IT DOES!! THAT'S THE POINT!! But stress is not always a bad thing.

Placing a fan in your grow stresses a plant and makes stronger stems, even though most people only do it to get good air circulation. The biggest reason most people forget (or don't know) is that blowing around in the wind is what CAUSES the big strong stems that hold up those huge colas.

When you snip/clip/prune/defoliate ANY plant, the plant responds by growing new stronger growth. It's a survival response. Anyone ever heard of TRUNK PIERCING?! I used to do it all the time in my larger grows. it causes very hearty growth in the veg stage because the plant believes it is constantly under attack and therefore grows stronger and stronger. When leaves are pulled, in order to survive, the plant grows more to replace what was lost. If this did not happen, eventually the same stressor, repeated would strip the plant completely and it would die. The general response, when lateral growth is removed, vertical growth is the response. I believe to possibly get above whatever has been biting on the sides.

Think of it like this. A deer comes along and munches the sides of a plant. The plant responds by growing taller, and adding weight to stems, and putting out more leaves/growth higher up. Eventually the deer would not be able to reach the vegetation it is after and wanders off in search of something else, thus the plant survives.

Adversely, when we top a plant, it responds by growing more girth and almost doubles it's lateral growth. In the deer scenario, eventually the deer will not be able to reach the inside of the plant where there is green, and the plant survives, and then can grow taller.

I know a lot of you are thinking, "A plant doesn't just make a decision to grow a certain way," and you'd be right: There is no thinking about it. But hormonal differences in plant tips, and stems, and trunks, are what causes this, and thus the response is the same. do you make a decision to scar over when you are cut? Poor example of course, but it does sort of prove my point here. Cells do what they're told to do by the circumstances they are presented. Cause and effect. When you work out, are you not sore the day after? Do you not grow stronger because of the torn muscle tissue regowing and increasing to withstand that stress later? Repeated stress of this sort can cause a dramatic change in muscle tone and bulk and strength of the tissue. The same thing can be observed in plants. Supercropping, for example...

ty Jandre and please dont take this the wrong way! Nice prattle

 

[GracesGarden]

Mind if I rant? I know some of you have see this one before, but I feel that it warrants a re-post.

---

One thing people seem to FAIL to recognize, and often quote the opposite, is one simple fact.

Plants are ENCOURAGED to grow taller/bigger/stronger when damage occurs. Most people say that this stresses the plant and therefore is bad. OF COURSE IT DOES!! THAT'S THE POINT!! But stress is not always a bad thing.

Placing a fan in your grow stresses a plant and makes stronger stems, even though most people only do it to get good air circulation. The biggest reason most people forget (or don't know) is that blowing around in the wind is what CAUSES the big strong stems that hold up those huge colas.

When you snip/clip/prune/defoliate ANY plant, the plant responds by growing new stronger growth. It's a survival response. Anyone ever heard of TRUNK PIERCING?! I used to do it all the time in my larger grows. it causes very hearty growth in the veg stage because the plant believes it is constantly under attack and therefore grows stronger and stronger. When leaves are pulled, in order to survive, the plant grows more to replace what was lost. If this did not happen, eventually the same stressor, repeated would strip the plant completely and it would die. The general response, when lateral growth is removed, vertical growth is the response. I believe to possibly get above whatever has been biting on the sides.

Think of it like this. A deer comes along and munches the sides of a plant. The plant responds by growing taller, and adding weight to stems, and putting out more leaves/growth higher up. Eventually the deer would not be able to reach the vegetation it is after and wanders off in search of something else, thus the plant survives.

Adversely, when we top a plant, it responds by growing more girth and almost doubles it's lateral growth. In the deer scenario, eventually the deer will not be able to reach the inside of the plant where there is green, and the plant survives, and then can grow taller.

I know a lot of you are thinking, "A plant doesn't just make a decision to grow a certain way," and you'd be right: There is no thinking about it. But hormonal differences in plant tips, and stems, and trunks, are what causes this, and thus the response is the same. do you make a decision to scar over when you are cut? Poor example of course, but it does sort of prove my point here. Cells do what they're told to do by the circumstances they are presented. Cause and effect. When you work out, are you not sore the day after? Do you not grow stronger because of the torn muscle tissue regowing and increasing to withstand that stress later? Repeated stress of this sort can cause a dramatic change in muscle tone and bulk and strength of the tissue. The same thing can be observed in plants. Supercropping, for example...

Jandre, you wrote that so well, I hope you don't mind, but I had to add it to my blog, it's something to keep and look back at and help others when they start to grow, thanks for all your insite. I believe what you say is right, after my harvest last week of 3/4 of my plants, I placed them back into 12/12, and those little buds are now betting taller, and fatter, trying and stressing to grow, Good job with the rant, those kind of rants are most helpful.

 

[GigaGrew]

data absorbed..good job.
2 questions tho, just so i know the timings right.

how long before i turn to flower should topping be done (if height wasnt an issue)

How much vertical stretch happenes on a topped plant during flower. (preferably in a % form)

 

[DephOne]

I was wondering the same things.

 

[OldMedMan]

data absorbed..good job.
2 questions tho, just so i know the timings right.

how long before i turn to flower should topping be done (if height wasnt an issue)

How much vertical stretch happenes on a topped plant during flower. (preferably in a % form)

Look up the strain you are growing and check how much it usually stretches in flower, that will give you a ballpark idea.

Most seed banks don't tell you this unfortunately.

There are a couple places to look...unfortunately 420 will not let me tell you, because they are banned sites.

Use your imagination, you might even search for finder, stretch, or seeds, something close to that. Sorry.

 

[GigaGrew]

having never topped i have no way of knowing if vertical growth is anything like an untouched flowering plant.

for this rule of thumb im allowing the idea that uncut plants double in size during flower.
but how much do topped plants stretch.

and the benefits if topping in veg are not just height restriction but the girth thing so its really good to know when to...




for example it would be good to be able to say.

you top your plants halfway through your vegcycle and at a height of 40% of your chosen maximum height. so you get maximum benefit and control.

but still learning the variables

 

[QueenTokelove]

hey when you get it worked out Gig explain it to me. I know when I topped mine last grow they got really bushy.

 

[GigaGrew]

sure thing.

its just trying to avoid inefficiency

cut too soon and your plants will be shorter than you want, cut too late and you dont get all the benefits.

 

[jandre2k3]

data absorbed..good job.
2 questions tho, just so i know the timings right.

how long before i turn to flower should topping be done (if height wasnt an issue)

How much vertical stretch happenes on a topped plant during flower. (preferably in a % form)

I was wondering the same things.

Depending on Light Cycle used for veg and the strain grown, the stretch could be as much as 300%. A 2' plant could likely become a 6' plant through the stretch. Also, some landrace crosses continue to grow all throughout the flower cycle, so estimating height is even harder there.

In my personal opinion, topping should be performed at the earliest possible moment in the plant's life, and as often as needed. Some say this it at nine nodes, some say earlier. I say it is to be done when you are comfortable with plant health and vigor. I have been known to top at four nodes on some, and others I have topped the second true node. To me it all depends on what I'm doing at the time, how healthy the plant is, and how well the strain responds to said stress.

 

[OldMedMan]

I just gave my opinion on the very same subject in Grace's journal. I first find out the strains expected stretch first. Think you are much more scientific than I am.

 

[GigaGrew]

so topping doent actually stop vertical growth then i guess, lol

300% is a lot. i have short plants at the moment but their roots are like 3 times the size of the plants.

do topping and LST amplify each other?

i have no interest in FIM atm.i need to go all japanese efficiency on this one. im expecting to be working with at least a hundred plants in my grow. and fim is a lot of time and care per plant. topping shoulb be the least work, and lst is a bit more effort.

i do like the idea of using the tops to make more clones =D

 

[negativeions]

day 21 of flower, i did my best to flush, well maybe did it to good. And i know you all need pics but thats friday.
Anyway i have alot of older groth fan leaves going yellow on me so i gave them some extra n in their water yesterday, not sure if part of the reason was that they could still be in shock from the serious trimming i have done.
Rekon sinse my pension check came today i'am going to the hydro store and get me a jug of sledgehammer to see if that helps with lockout. Other then that the colas are filling in quite nicely.

pics pics pics pics!!!!!

Im a very visual person

 

[OldMedMan]

so topping doent actually stop vertical growth then i guess, lol

300% is a lot. i have short plants at the moment but their roots are like 3 times the size of the plants.

do topping and LST amplify each other?

i have no interest in FIM atm.i need to go all japanese efficiency on this one. im expecting to be working with at least a hundred plants in my grow. and fim is a lot of time and care per plant. topping shoulb be the least work, and lst is a bit more effort.

i do like the idea of using the tops to make more clones =D

If you do it right FIMing and Topping are essentially the same thing.

 

[jandre2k3]

so topping doent actually stop vertical growth then i guess, lol

300% is a lot. i have short plants at the moment but their roots are like 3 times the size of the plants.

do topping and LST amplify each other?

i have no interest in FIM atm.i need to go all japanese efficiency on this one. im expecting to be working with at least a hundred plants in my grow. and fim is a lot of time and care per plant. topping shoulb be the least work, and lst is a bit more effort.

i do like the idea of using the tops to make more clones =D

Topping gives more tops to LST out. LST can be used to shorten plants that will get too tall. Just pull down and tie off any branches that are reaching too high. You could tie down the tips of them, too, to force the auxins into another part of the plant, thus stalling growth by 2-3 days and creating new tops out of what would have been lateral growth. Alternatively, you could tie them down about half way up the stem and let the tips turn back up into the light, this will effectively shorten each long stem considerably and keep the giant colas if you like that sort of thing. Personally when I look at a soda can sized cola, I see the immense stem that I have to contend with. This also adds FALSE WEIGHT to your dry weights reported, and ultimately less smoke than expected/weighed because of the tree branch inside.

 

[GigaGrew]

yeah giant buds are just eye candy, i agree about the stem, if anyone recieved weed in my name it would have to be perfectly manicured and bone dry...finding a giant stick in your prize aquisition spoils the joy.