First Grow In Over 20 Years! Northern Lights Under 600W LED

[Homer Simpson]

There are buffers that will adjust your ph up or down and there’s little you can do about except keeping your feed water within normal range.

That seems to be the consensus that feed water is all that matters but I worry when my runoff is so much lower because it seems like that would be the reading the plant would be mostly exposed to? But I am feeding at 6.5 pH so technically I am at the high end of the range.

I'm interested, and this ^.

I don't remember if you did your slurry test with distilled water or not (it makes a difference) but the alkalinity of your water and the type of nitrogen used in your nutrients make the difference in the drift of your soil pH. Sometime I will get a post on my thread of the conversation I had with an expert at ProMix.

I did my slurry test with the water I use to feed with nutes and adjusted to 6.2 pH. Have you posted anywhere what the promix expert said because it sounds like it would be interesting?

I found an hour or two at night and things work great that way for me. Light schedule helps. I always have mine turn on at 7pm so I've had my dinner, puffs and off I go to the tent.

Fluffiness could be many things, but I hear more often than not it's lighting issues. It's something worth looking into more for your own information unless others can give advice. But I haven't had a need to go looking yet.

Sounds like you have a good schedule system worked out. Hmmmm... I will do some research on fluffiness being related to lights because my lights are not the best.

If it were me regarding pH I would still be metering at the correct range. I'm not so sure it's smart to start messing with the pH going in. I hope others correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know either to be honest but with 6.5 pH going in I am getting 6.0 ph coming out which are both in range but if I went 6.3 pH going in I would be coming out at about 5.8 pH which is out of range. I am not saying I am right it just makes sense to me.

It couldn't hurt!

I hope not because I am, lol....

 

[Pennywise]

Chasing runoff data will have you chasing ghosts.

 

[MrSauga]

I don't know either to be honest but with 6.5 pH going in I am getting 6.0 ph coming out which are both in range but if I went 6.3 pH going in I would be coming out at about 5.8 pH which is out of range. I am not saying I am right it just makes sense to me

I dunno buddy, I'm hoping you're not looking too deep into the runoff problem. I think you need to concentrate on the pH going in.

 

[MrSauga]

Chasing runoff data will have you chasing ghosts.

Yes, a much better way of explaining it than my way.

 

[InTheShed]

I did my slurry test with the water I use to feed with nutes and adjusted to 6.2 pH. Have you posted anywhere what the promix expert said because it sounds like it would be interesting?

Every slurry testing method I have ever read uses distilled water. That's all I can tell you.

I have not posted the conversation yet and I don't want to start the discussion here or you may not regain control over your grow journal for quite some time . In the meantime, I would pH your nutes going in as we all do, and if you see signs of nutrient lockout, slurry test your soil the way it's described here:
The Ultimate Guide to Testing Soil pH

When I post that conversation I will drop a link here for you!

 

[Homer Simpson]

Chasing runoff data will have you chasing ghosts.

I dunno buddy, I'm hoping you're not looking too deep into the runoff problem. I think you need to concentrate on the pH going in.

As I said I am not saying I am right just that it makes sense to me but I am open to the idea maybe I should just care about the pH going in. I am watering at 6.5 pH which is the high end of the range so maybe I will lower to 6.3 pH since everyone seems to agree that makes more sense.

Every slurry testing method I have ever read uses distilled water. That's all I can tell you.

I have not posted the conversation yet and I don't want to start the discussion here or you may not regain control over your grow journal for quite some time . In the meantime, I would pH your nutes going in as we all do, and if you see signs of nutrient lockout, slurry test your soil the way it's described here:
The Ultimate Guide to Testing Soil pH

Yes, I am heeding the advice about nutes going in. You certainly have piqued my curiosity about this company expert's radical notions!! Looking forward to that link.

 

[Dutchman1990]

Ph usually drifts in your medium as well so if your watering at 6.5 it could be drifting higher and locking certain nutrients out

 

[Homer Simpson]

Ph usually drifts in your medium as well so if your watering at 6.5 it could be drifting higher and locking certain nutrients out

Watering at 6.5 pH and having my runoff be about 6.0 pH I would think if anything my pH is drifting lower in the medium but I concede yours and everyone else’s point that I should be watering in the proper range and not worrying about my runoff.

Obviously, the majority of people are doing this method and it is working fine so why rock the boat.

 

[InTheShed]

It could be drifting lower as well. Without a slurry test and distilled water you won't know. The pH of runoff doesn't tell you what's happening in the soil.

 

[MrSauga]

Well that's correct Homer...but my understanding of testing runoff is to find out which way the drift is. The you adjust your soil, but is hard to do during a grow as it's slow acting.
IMHO, you need to start off with a good balanced neutral base, such as Promix HP, FFOF, and some others. Mixing coco, castings and some other ingriedients mean you have no idea what your soil is at pH wise. So ya testing runoff to me only dictates what the soil is doing to the water.

 

[MrSauga]

Just so there's no confusion, Shed's post and mine are not the same thing. He's referring to the slurry test which tells what pH level your soil is at, what I am saying is, if, if, your soil is 7.5, and you pump in 8.0 water, the 8.0 water-in will drop to whatever value because the soil is 'thinning' the water out if I can put it that way.
Hopefully Shed I didn't kill what you were trying to state, if I stated what you were trying to state correctly.

 

[InTheShed]

I just meant that if you think you're having pH issues in your leaves, what's important is slurry testing the soil and not checking the pH of the runoff.

 

[MrSauga]

Awesome, and what I am trying to say is, if Homer doesn't know what his soil is at, and he's drifting down from water at 6.5, then chances are his soil pH is lower than that. But changing his pH to a higher value to compensate imo is just adding to the problem.

 

[InTheShed]

All possibilities. A slurry test with distilled water will be the only way to actually determine what is happening.

 

[MrSauga]

Sometimes I think it was easier to put man on the moon. But, I did learn a lot tonight and that's what it's about!

 

[InTheShed]

As promised:
Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

 

[Homer Simpson]

So ya testing runoff to me only dictates what the soil is doing to the water.

I just meant that if you think you're having pH issues in your leaves, what's important is slurry testing the soil and not checking the pH of the runoff.

I am certainly not trying to be argumentative and I am very open to adjusting my pH to the recommended values like everybody else is because obviously it works but honestly I just don’t understand why everyone thinks runoff readings don’t matter when logically to me it seems like they are the only thing that should matter.

This is what just makes sense to me and obviously everybody disagrees so tell me what you think is the flaw in my thinking. To me the most important thing in pH is the reading of the pH of the water in the soil that is delivering the nutrients to the plant which is hard to test.

I would think that both the pH of the water you feed and the pH of the soil are two variables which interact on each other so you get an average and that average is in constant flux and flow but it is the most critical pH because it is the water that is delivering the nutrients to your plants in the soil in the pot.

So to me the pH of the water you feed doesn’t really matter because it’s going to be changed by the soil so you should change that feedwater so that the interaction between that and the soil results in the proper pH of the water at the roots. And I would think the best way to get a representation of that water that is delivering the plant its food is to read runoff because runoff is the result of the interaction between the soil pH and the nutrient water you add. So that’s why to me the only number that matters is the runoff and everyone says it’s the only thing that doesn’t matter.

I don’t understand why the pH of the soil matters at all other than in relation to what it does to the water in contact with the roots. So I just don’t understand the point of doing a distilled water soil test because the soil isn’t delivering nutrients to the plant it’s only changing the pH of that water. And as long as it is changing the delivery water to the proper pH once it’s in the soil that is all that matters.

Again I concede I may be totally wrong about everything but logically that’s how I see pH working.

Update; after reading Shed's post I realize the major malfunction in my thinking is the ph of the growing medium is what matters not the water pH delivering the nutes to the plant. Who knew?? Never mind....

 

[Homer Simpson]

I just meant that if you think you're having pH issues in your leaves, what's important is slurry testing the soil and not checking the pH of the runoff.

Knowing now that the pH of the soil is critical and not the pH of the water at the root delivering the nutes it now makes sense to use distilled water to test soil. My bad.... better late than never.

 

[Homer Simpson]

My budding plants are still plugging away and I plan on doing another partial harvest of about a third on the weekend and then the last third I’m going to wait until things are nice and Amber. See pic below.

@InTheShed really upset the apple cart with his thread about do we need to adjust pH in our nutrient solutions but I found it really interesting. I’m not saying I understand all the intricacies of pH now but I really thought just monitoring the pH going in was not covering all the bases.

If I understand what the rep from Promix said properly my understanding is that two things affect soil pH and they are the type of nitrogen in the fertilizer and depending which type it is it can make the pH go up or down and the second is the alkalinity of the water which is the total amount of calcium carbide which tends to raise pH because it neutralizes acids. And that the pH of the nutrient water has no effect.

Because it was my first grow I had lots of problems in that I started out with a topical fertilizer which didn’t seem to be cutting it so I switched to Megacrop and then I had a bad pH meter so I was watering way to a acidically so basically I’m not going to worry about that grow because it’s almost done.

But with my new generation I have been watering without adjusting the pH instead I start with my tap water which is about 7.6 pH and add my Megacrop and calmag which brings it down to about 6.5 pH and the runoff was no one thinks matters is about 6.1 pH. Just out of curiosity I am going to monitor my runoff and do the occasional soil tests throughout my grow with a distilled water slurry.

Recently I took a portion of my nutrient water and set it aside and tested the pH which as I said was 6.5 pH after I added my nutes and a few days later it was back up to 7.4 pH so that tells me that the alkalinity of the water buffered it back up. If that is true there really isn’t much point in adjusting the pH of the water you add if the alkalinity or calcium carbonate in the water just raises it back up. So to test that I took some of my tap water at 7.6 pH and added some acid to drop it down to 6.0 and I bet in a day the buffering action of the calcium carbonate in the water will raise it back up to 7.4 to 7.6 and if that happens there is no reason to adjust your feedwater pH because the alkalinity just raises it back up.

Anyway I doubt anyone agrees with my approach but I’m going to try that given Shed’s new information. Seems pretty controversial on that thread so I think I will just read it and glean whatever information I can find and try and apply it. Thanks for the info Shed.

 

[MrSauga]

Anyway I doubt anyone agrees with my approach but I’m going to try that given Shed’s new information.

Well if I have made you feel like I am not listening to your opinions then I do apologize. I have not once thought you have not known what you are talking about. You're a very theoretical type of guy and I understand completely why you want to try new methods or experiements.
I did not want to insinuate that the run-off meant nothing... all I was trying to state was there is not much that can be done quickly to neutralize the soil for the best pH, or at least that's what I have been learned, so worrying about the run-off does nobody any good, and adjusting the pH up or down to compensate doesn't help if I understand correctly.
So, feeding the plant with the right pH'd nutes could help the plant absorb what it needs. If it's already locked out with bad soil it would be a lot worse imho.