Fanleaf's Huge 42 COB Array Build Plus Other Builds

Hey FL

About My Light:

Right so I live outside the US I got an issue getting COBS and I don't want to pay out the bum for CREE CXB's.
I know Grow Mau5's set up but I wanted to have more control like you do, by splitting the temps.

I want the light to be 250W max (only a small light like your 1212 one) We actually had the same idea, hence why I come to you.

I had thought of a triangle shaped light with a cob at each point.

3x CLU048-1812's running at about 70W each: 2700k (90) cri

and in the middle

1x CLU048-1818 @ 6500K (cir does't matter), on a separate driver.

But I saw one of your youtube videos, in the comments you seem to dislike (90) cri. Could you confirm that?

Now the other issue is, these cobs are 52V!!!! the 1812's and 1818's are basically CreeCXb's in regards to power, the 1812 more so but still more powerful. i'm sure you're aware of the 1812's. Personally i think the sweet spot of cobs in regards to power.

The other issue is, buying them.

I have a contact at citizen who said I can get a minimum order of 5. so I have to chose 5 cobs of one temp.

5x 1812's at $15 each is great! gen 6 too. but they are 52volts running at like 1000 mah (weird) Not easy to find drivers for. Pluss to powerful to drive with an arduino Ldd drivers.

So now i think screw it, I'll have a square framed lamp and I'll buy 5 x 1212's for $55 not $80 (1812's) run them all at 40W average and use Meanwell LDD software drivers and drop the overall Watts to 150W - 200W.

Problem there is I also saw you ragging on the 1212's so now Im not so confident.

Anyway 2 choices now are

1) Buy 5 1212's at 3500K 80 cri and put them all on one rig (bare in mind is for 2 plants so requirements). I kinda think 5 on a small rig would be overkill for hot spots no?

2) buy 6 1212's at 3000k (80) and 2x 1818's at 5000K and have two triangle lights.

i really want the first light, the three 1812's at 3000k (80) and the one blue in the middle at 5000k :(

So to wrap up,

1) You're using 3000k at (80) cri and 5000k? so if i split the tempos thats the preferred set up?
2) 1212's are good as long as you run them below 50w's?
3) You think 3500k (80) in that model will be a good choice for a single temp light, like grow maul and GG uses. (single cxb3590's @3500K (80)cri.

Sorry bro, weeks of research pouring out here.

Sorry if I'm rambling, it's late, i got red eye. Wanna order these chips tomorrow though. Pending on what design i go for.
 
Sorry maybe it would be better for me to ask this.

If you were gonna grow 1 plant in a small space so you don't grow it HUGE but not too small, what would be your perfect light given what you now know?

Thats the light I'm looking to build.

Parameters are, cree cobs are too expensive.

Total out put 200W ( if you think that will be enough for the job)?

Cheap as possible.

I can get 5 clu 1212's for $55 the price of 1 cree and better light spread. So you see where Im going.
Tried looking at 3070's but still $35 for old bins.
 
Posativek said:
Hey FL

About My Light:

Right so I live outside the US I got an issue getting COBS and I don't want to pay out the bum for CREE CXB's.
I know Grow Mau5's set up but I wanted to have more control like you do, by splitting the temps.

I want the light to be 250W max (only a small light like your 1212 one) We actually had the same idea, hence why I come to you.

I had thought of a triangle shaped light with a cob at each point.

3x CLU048-1812's running at about 70W each: 2700k (90) cri

and in the middle

1x CLU048-1818 @ 6500K (cir does't matter), on a separate driver.

But I saw one of your youtube videos, in the comments you seem to dislike (90) cri. Could you confirm that?

Now the other issue is, these cobs are 52V!!!! the 1812's and 1818's are basically CreeCXb's in regards to power, the 1812 more so but still more powerful. i'm sure you're aware of the 1812's. Personally i think the sweet spot of cobs in regards to power.

The other issue is, buying them.

I have a contact at citizen who said I can get a minimum order of 5. so I have to chose 5 cobs of one temp.

5x 1812's at $15 each is great! gen 6 too. but they are 52volts running at like 1000 mah (weird) Not easy to find drivers for. Pluss to powerful to drive with an arduino Ldd drivers.

So now i think screw it, I'll have a square framed lamp and I'll buy 5 x 1212's for $55 not $80 (1812's) run them all at 40W average and use Meanwell LDD software drivers and drop the overall Watts to 150W - 200W.

Problem there is I also saw you ragging on the 1212's so now Im not so confident.

Anyway 2 choices now are

1) Buy 5 1212's at 3500K 80 cri and put them all on one rig (bare in mind is for 2 plants so requirements). I kinda think 5 on a small rig would be overkill for hot spots no?

2) buy 6 1212's at 3000k (80) and 2x 1818's at 5000K and have two triangle lights.

i really want the first light, the three 1812's at 3000k (80) and the one blue in the middle at 5000k :(

So to wrap up,

1) You're using 3000k at (80) cri and 5000k? so if i split the tempos thats the preferred set up?
2) 1212's are good as long as you run them below 50w's?
3) You think 3500k (80) in that model will be a good choice for a single temp light, like grow maul and GG uses. (single cxb3590's @3500K (80)cri.

Sorry bro, weeks of research pouring out here.

Sorry if I'm rambling, it's late, i got red eye. Wanna order these chips tomorrow though. Pending on what design i go for.
Click to expand...
Let's start with a few things.
First, you would have more money into 4X 1812's and 2 drivers then you would 4 Crees on 1 driver.
Secondly, 1812's at 70 watts each in 2700K 90CRI have a HORRIBLE efficiency of only 33.5%! HID lights are about 40%. That sucks bad!!!! Waste of time and money.

Here's what 3 1812's look like at about 70 watts each.
181212.JPG


That's really bad man. That chip don't even break 40% efficient until you go down to 15 watts per chip. My advice is to stay far far away.
Next...The 1812 is nowhere near a CXB in reguards to power efficiency. The 1818 is much closer yes and the 1818 can break 45% efficiency at a decent power level. Not great but good.

I didn't "rag" on the 1212's. They have their place. Smaller grow areas is their place. The ragging I did was because some douche bag was claiming his 1212's are hitting 300 lumens per watt! Not going to happen ever...
Telling me the size of your grow area would sure help here. Without that info I'm guessing 2.5'X2.5' fr 2 plants.

In that case I would highly reccomend going with 6X 1212 in 3500k gen 6 80CRI with all 6 chips. You can run them all on 1 36 volt driver and run all 6 at a mere 27 watts per chip @27 watts @8oomA each and have a huge ppfd of 820+ with a cob efficiency of 48.48%. That setup would be great from veg through flower. 163 watts total!
If you are running in a 3'x3' or 1m x 1m room you could do the same thing but bump it to 1000mA with all 6 chips and still have a ppfd of 840 with a cob efficiency of 46.82%. Total of 207 watts.


Heres 6 in a 2.5' x 2.5' room at 800mA
800ma.JPG





Now here is running 1000mA in a 1m x 1m room

1000ma.JPG
 
Firstly please accept my apology about using the term "ragging" that was a little loose tongued. Disparaged in context.

"In that case I would highly reccomend going with 6X 1212 in 3500k gen 6 80CRI with all 6 chips. You can run them all on 1 36 volt driver and run all 6 at a mere 27 watts per chip @27 watts @8oomA each and have a huge ppfd of 820+ with a cob efficiency of 48.48%. That setup would be great from veg through flower. 163 watts total!
If you are running in a 3'x3' or 1m x 1m room you could do the same thing but bump it to 1000mA with all 6 chips and still have a ppfd of 840 with a cob efficiency of 46.82%. Total of 207 watts".


You beauty! Perfect!

Again due to ordering issues getting 6 1212's would be perfect. Although less chips would cut down on LDD drivers, reflectors and clips etc.
But to be fair on balance and your recommendation, i think thats the way to go.

On a side note, KitCobs seems to rate Citizens higher than you appear to and I mean stats wise. An 1818 is a 250W chip no? The 1812 a 150W and the CXB 125? That would put the 1812 in the sweet spot run @ 70W if CXB's and 1818's are at peak efficacy around 60-90W?

i have also been trolling data sheets and found a reasonable Li/w of around 125-145 at nominal rates (half powered current) which @ 52 volts puts the 1812 bang on!

Either way, not going to argue with your obvious workings out, which I appreciate thanks.


How far apart would you spread the 1212's if running 6 for a small room, 2 med plants max.
 
Posativek said:
Sorry maybe it would be better for me to ask this.

If you were gonna grow 1 plant in a small space so you don't grow it HUGE but not too small, what would be your perfect light given what you now know?

Thats the light I'm looking to build.

Parameters are, cree cobs are too expensive.

Total out put 200W ( if you think that will be enough for the job)?

Cheap as possible.

I can get 5 clu 1212's for $55 the price of 1 cree and better light spread. So you see where Im going.
Tried looking at 3070's but still $35 for old bins.
Click to expand...


3070's are still far more efficient then 1212's even though they are old. I do see where you are coming from though.
For a small space for 1 plant a 2x2 area is good enough. That would give room to grow decent size. Not small, not huge.
My perfect light you ruled out because of cost per chip. my "perfect light" is the one that gives me the absolute best efficiency I can get with the most light per watt and spectrum I like without taking cost into account at all. That would be Cree all the way. You get up to 60% efficiency.

In a smaller area though it's not that critical to go that route. In a 2X2 I love the use of 1212's especially in 6 gen. My opinion if in a small area like that is to either go vero 29 7 gen or Citizen 1212 6 gen.

Myself I would go all 6 gen 3500k with 6 chips at very low power in the 1212 80CRI or 5 1212's in 3500k 80CRI and a single 2700k90CRI or 3000k 90CRI right in the middle. You won't go wrong with either of those....or 5 Vero's in 4000k ran soft.
Either way you will be over 45% efficient and have a fantastic light from start to finish.
 
Posativek said:
Firstly please accept my apology about using the term "ragging" that was a little loose tongued. Disparaged in context.

"In that case I would highly reccomend going with 6X 1212 in 3500k gen 6 80CRI with all 6 chips. You can run them all on 1 36 volt driver and run all 6 at a mere 27 watts per chip @27 watts @8oomA each and have a huge ppfd of 820+ with a cob efficiency of 48.48%. That setup would be great from veg through flower. 163 watts total!
If you are running in a 3'x3' or 1m x 1m room you could do the same thing but bump it to 1000mA with all 6 chips and still have a ppfd of 840 with a cob efficiency of 46.82%. Total of 207 watts".


You beauty! Perfect!

Again due to ordering issues getting 6 1212's would be perfect. Although less chips would cut down on LDD drivers, reflectors and clips etc.
But to be fair on balance and your recommendation, i think thats the way to go.

On a side note, KitCobs seems to rate Citizens higher than you appear to and I mean stats wise. An 1818 is a 250W chip no? The 1812 a 150W and the CXB 125? That would put the 1812 in the sweet spot run @ 70W if CXB's and 1818's are at peak efficacy around 60-90W?

i have also been trolling data sheets and found a erasable Li/w of around 125-145 at nominal rates (half powered current) which ut the 1812 @ 52 volts bang on!

Either way, not going to argue with your obvious workings out, which I appreciate thanks.


How far apart would you spread the 1212's if running 6 for a small room, 2 med plants max.
Click to expand...

I don't rate anything myself. I use the datasheets and the cob calculators. Just because you run a cob at 50% of it's rating don't mean anything as far as it's sweet spot.
The Cree is a 137 Watt chip and ran at the right drive current can reach 210 lumens per watt @60% efficient!
The 1812 driven at the same 35 watts hits 163 lumens per watt@48.7% efficient
The 1818 driven at the same 35 watts hits 166 lumens per watt@49.54% efficient.

That's not my ratings just the facts. This info comes straight from the Citizen calculator tool.


I would go with the 6x 1212's and run your outside chips close to the walls all the way around your grow area. I would go 5 inches or 12cm off the walls from each corner and split the last 2 chips in the middle. Your middle will always be the brightest so hug the walls on the outside so you get more even coverage on the edges. Something like this.....
 
Why Veros in 4k ran soft?

Efficacy to me still just means efficiency, although to yourself Im aware it means much more.

I like the idea of the single red and as Im running one cob on it's own driver, creating a balance between the temps would be fun!
A lot more programming though.

I was worried that the citizen 3500K @ 80cri 1212 6 gen spectrum might be slightly off to crees, hence why I wanted some reassurance of their usability from you, as you have experience with them.

Lastly you mentioned drivers at 32 volts for the 1212's but isn't that running them in Constant voltage?

I thought COBS were constant current? Ie the current is what you affect instead of the Voltage. Parallel VS series. I only say this so you know if Im getting it confused.
 
Yeh sorry Im missing some etiquette here. I didnt mean "your figures" as in ones you had made up or done by yourself, i meant the charts you provided in "your" message.

Sorry my bad. It's late do excuse me.
 
Posativek said:
Why Veros in 4k ran soft?

Efficacy to me still just means efficiency, although to yourself Im aware it means much more.

I like the idea of the single red and as Im running one cob on it's own driver, creating a balance between the temps would be fun!
A lot more programming though.

I was worried that the citizen 3500K @ 80cri 1212 6 gen spectrum might be slightly off to crees, hence why I wanted some reassurance of their usability from you, as you have experience with them.

Lastly you mentioned drivers at 32 volts for the 1212's but isn't that running them in Constant voltage?

I thought COBS were constant current? Ie the current is what you affect instead of the Voltage. Parallel VS series. I only say this so you know if Im getting it confused.
Click to expand...

It's still constant current. For the driver to run a 1212 at a constant current of say 800mA each cob will be at 34.25 volts per cob. A constant current driver will put out as much or little as voltage as necessary to keep the chips at 800mA (constant current).
 
Posativek said:
Why Veros in 4k ran soft?


I was worried that the citizen 3500K @ 80cri 1212 6 gen spectrum might be slightly off to crees, hence why I wanted some reassurance of their usability from you, as you have experience with them.
Click to expand...

It is slightly different but not much. That's why if anything I would add 1 90CRI to get that extra 660-730nm red.

Lastly you mentioned drivers at 32 volts for the 1212's but isn't that running them in Constant voltage?
Posativek said:
Why Veros in 4k ran soft?
I thought COBS were constant current? Ie the current is what you affect instead of the Voltage. Parallel VS series. I only say this so you know if Im getting it confused.
Click to expand...

Current CANNOT change without changing the voltage with anything in electronics ever. To change the constant current a driver does change the output voltage to bring the cobs to the current it should be.

For instance
If you want to run a 1212 at 800mA the voltage the cob is fed MUST be 34.25 volts. If you want a 1212 to run at 1000mA the voltage MUST be 34.89 volts. To run it at 1200mA it must be 35.49 volts. It's Ohms law. Volts X amps = watts always and forever. This is still constant current.
 
JimmyJames905 said:
Here's my "Spinal Tap" 3x Dimmer.
11...For when you need that little bit more.
420-magazine-mobile1570704219.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App
Click to expand...
I see you liked my aviation plug idea lol.
Did my switch wiring work out for you?
 
Interesting.

You'll be pleased to know I spent an hour or so with a Meanwell technician yesterday who said that's not possible (eye roll) lol

Now Im a little confused. If you have the time, do explain.

As far as I'm aware. constant current is where you need to add up the total of the voltage required as in grow5's video. That means he will be running his lights in series.
If you aren't changing the voltage and COBS are essentially fixed volt, then you change the current and wire them in parallel.

So for example an HLG-240-36-1400 will run how ever many cobs at a constant 36 volts and the current will be determined by which model you select so 14000mah in this example.
So 1 x 36 volt 1212 @1.4mah is like 45W.
You select the MAH rating to match the maximum MAH you want to put through the cobs (as cob rated) and that's your dimming along with lowering volts accordingly.

With Constant current you have to add up the volts (not sure if you can exceed). The current is also fixed usually low no?

To be honest its hard to tell the difference. I can kinda see one but it's not clicking.
I can also see it's kinda the same thing but it's not clicked yet.
 
Posativek said:
Interesting.

You'll be pleased to know I spent an hour or so with a Meanwell technician yesterday who said that's not possible (eye roll) lol

Now Im a little confused. If you have the time, do explain.

As far as I'm aware. constant current is where you need to add up the total of the voltage required as in grow5's video. That means he will be running his lights in series.
If you aren't changing the voltage and COBS are essentially fixed volt, then you change the current and wire them in parallel.

So for example an HLG-240-36-1400 will run how ever many cobs at a constant 36 volts and the current will be determined by which model you select so 14000mah in this example.
So 1 x 36 volt 1212 @1.4mah is like 45W.
You select the MAH rating to match the maximum MAH you want to put through the cobs (as cob rated) and that's your dimming along with lowering volts accordingly.

With Constant current you have to add up the volts (not sure if you can exceed). The current is also fixed usually low no?

To be honest its hard to tell the difference. I can kinda see one but it's not clicking.
I can also see it's kinda the same thing but it's not clicked yet.
Click to expand...


I'll shoot a quick video and post it here to show you.
 
Fanleaf's Huge 42 Cree CXB3590 COB Array Build Plus Other Builds

fanleaf said:
I see you liked my aviation plug idea lol.
Did my switch wiring work out for you?
Click to expand...

Aviation plugs rock. They are so solid!
The switching worked like a charm. I posted a vid on page 60. Thanks so much for all the help.
Ordered 6 meat chips. Vero 18. The 29' won't be in until April. I'll send you some after I get this flower test done.
If I don't like the Vero meatchips I'll use the Citi 90cri 3000.


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App
 
Posativek said:
Interesting.

So for example an HLG-240-36-1400 will run how ever many cobs at a constant 36 volts and the current will be determined by which model you select so 14000mah in this example. /QUOTE]

Use the HLG C series drivers.
A good combination with 4 top bin 36v Cree is the HLG-240h-C1750b or the HLG-185h-C1400b. That's 143v available on either driver.


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App
Click to expand...
 
JimmyJames905 said:
Posativek said:
Interesting.

So for example an HLG-240-36-1400 will run how ever many cobs at a constant 36 volts and the current will be determined by which model you select so 14000mah in this example. /QUOTE]

Use the HLG C series drivers.
A good combination with 4 top bin 36v Cree is the HLG-240h-C1750b or the HLG-185h-C1400b. That's 143v available on either driver.


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App
Click to expand...


I'm actually going to be shooting for software powered drivers.

LDD-H-MEAN WELL Switching Power Supply Manufacturer

but I will need a switch. Fan Leaf is heaping me out understand some basic electronics, which he can tell, I obviously need lol
Click to expand...
 
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