They're really looking good Mel and growing really fast now. 
Family Tree Grow
- Thread starter Melville Hobbes
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #162
Day 32
I cleaned them up a little bit. Just a few lower leaves that were touching the perlite.
Do si dos
I supercropped that top shoot.
Do si dos #33
Gelato
I cleaned them up a little bit. Just a few lower leaves that were touching the perlite.
Do si dos
I supercropped that top shoot.
Do si dos #33
Gelato
Thanks gwhunran!They're really looking good Mel and growing really fast now.
plants are looking good #33 looking sad again but growingDay 32
I cleaned them up a little bit. Just a few lower leaves that were touching the perlite.
Do si dos
I supercropped that top shoot.
Do si dos #33
Gelato
Thanks gwhunran!
- Thread starter
- #164
Day 33
Do si dos and Gelato are saying "Flip", so today is the last day of veg for these girls.
Do si dos
Do si dos #33
Gelato
Yeah. She's hard to please.
At least now we know that you can overwater a hempy!
Do si dos and Gelato are saying "Flip", so today is the last day of veg for these girls.
Do si dos
Do si dos #33
Gelato
Thanks con!
Yeah. She's hard to please.
At least now we know that you can overwater a hempy!
What would you think about adding a little hydroguard or similar product to #33's feed?
@West Hippie
@LKABudMan
@West Hippie
@LKABudMan
For me #33 just reads over water still.
That pronounced over tight vein structure. If it stays the same and goes purply kill it.
Meh that’s overly pessimistic of me.
How about a blast of extra N and Cal-Mag? Special mix for that one, fed lightly. Even just foliar spray.
That pronounced over tight vein structure. If it stays the same and goes purply kill it.
Meh that’s overly pessimistic of me.
How about a blast of extra N and Cal-Mag? Special mix for that one, fed lightly. Even just foliar spray.
I've never really grown in perlite, but I'd use some bennies. Hydroguard, great white, and orca all come to mind.
Dunno - didn’t @Keffka suggest myco don’t work in anything but soil? Perlite is hydro.
Its young - leave it alone and see what happens.
Its young - leave it alone and see what happens.
A lot of myco products like Great White come with more than just myco. They’ve got trichoderma and beneficial bacteria as well.
However, the myco strains themselves won’t do much good in a non soil environment, and the moment available P is put in it’s gone. You’ll still get the other stuff like the bacteria and trichoderma though
So how does one get myco and P to work together in a pot? Or are you saying in a non-soil environment?
OK. Getcha. I’m a little bit right though?
You think Myco has no value in non soil environments. For me the jury is out on that one and I have
‘cause Azi is also now talking.But with respect to our host Mel’s #33 your opinion is? Add some amendments or not? I defer to everyone in soil. I killed plenty in that! But this hydro/coco - I’m OK at that, sorta. Just leave it alone and see what happens. Don’t go throwing any extras in. Watch and wait and read the plant.
My 2c’s any way. Nice and green plant. Looks a bit droopy is all.
- Thread starter
- #172
Hmm. I'd be more inclined to add something that can make her more resilient to watering issues.
I'm pretty much certain that it is just her reaction to having constant access to water. Kind of like the problem @InTheShed was having this summer.
I think that there are just some phenotypes that don't respond well to it.
Mycorrhizae are known to aid plants in situations where there are different types of watering stress, particularly overwatering in soil.
I'm not sure what trichoderma does, I'll have to look into that.
I doubt the bacteria great white contains would find the perlite hospitable, but I don't see how they could hurt.
I know some growers have added myco to hydro before, but I've never known if it would actually be able to colonize the plants in water.
It does seem to help in coco though.
Shed seemed to think she might perk up in flower, and her water needs should pick up during stretch, so I'll give her a week after flip to see how she does before I add anything, except maybe some H2O2. That would have the added benefit of getting some extra oxygen to the roots.
I've seen side by side growth of fertilized pepper plants with and without myco, and the ones with it did better.
I think it has to do with the fact that the strains of myco we use are within the roots themselves, so they don't need to wait for the plant to provide exudates.
They also bring more than just P to the plants, although that does seem to be the main nutrient they provide.
I do have to look into what they actually do to help the plant with stress related to too much water, assuming it's more than strengthening them against harmful fungi.
There's some debate over this.
Some feel that the plant won't put out exudates if its nutritional needs are being met. However the question then arises of how did the beneficial symbiosis evolve if there weren't already exudates to attract those beneficial microbes and fungi?
I've seen the results in my garden for myself, so I don't really buy the assertion that myco are useless in fed plants.
I'm planning on leaving her alone, at least until a few days after flip.OK. Getcha. I’m a little bit right though?
You think Myco has no value in non soil environments. For me the jury is out on that one and I have
But with respect to our host Mel’s #33 your opinion is? Add some amendments or not? I defer to everyone in soil. I killed plenty in that! But this hydro/coco - I’m OK at that, sorta. Just leave it alone and see what happens. Don’t go throwing any extras in. Watch and wait and read the plant.
My 2c’s any way. Nice and green plant. Looks a bit droopy is all.
If she's still droopy, my first addition will be H2O2 to add oxygen to the root zone, and to kill off any pathogens.
If that doesn't help I'll add a myco product, which should have a clean slate to do whatever it might do in this environment. Dynomyco or great white depending on what my reading indicates about how trichoderma might help.
Thanks guys, great discussion!
My original understanding was that high levels of P (like for those using P-dominant bloom boosters or using a line that thinks high levels of P are needed) would restrict the growth of mycorrhizae in the soil. And this would back you up as well:
"Oddly, many people have erroneously concluded that phosphate kills mycorrhizal fungi. In fact, there is no killing effect going on here. Instead, in soils having high available phosphate, the host plant apparently opts to restrict fungal colonization. The fungi and their spores are still alive. They are simply experiencing a higher level of restrictions from the host plant. In fact, there is ample evidence to show that the host plant has significant control over when and where mycorrhizal fungi may enter root tissue. Theoretically, under conditions of high available phosphate, the restrictions are increased. So the levels of soluble phosphate in the soil can affect whether the host plant opens the door to the root widely or narrowly. But the mycorrhizal fungi are not killed by phosphates. This misunderstanding has been promoted by various companies who attempt to blend and sell mycorrhizal products with no real grasp of their biology."
Source
- Thread starter
- #174
So far it's looking like trichoderma are mostly useful for pest and fungal resistance.
I haven't found anything on stresses related to watering yet.
I did find its effect on fusarium and botrytis extremely interesting.
Trichoderma and its role in biological control of plant fungal and nematode disease
Trichoderma is mainly used to control soil-borne diseases as well as some leaf and panicle diseases of various plants. Trichoderma can not only prevent diseases but also promotes plant growth, improves nutrient utilization efficiency, enhances plant resistance, ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I did find its effect on fusarium and botrytis extremely interesting.
- Thread starter
- #175
Thanks Shed!
They're getting their first long night right now, so we should see if the shift to flower helps to perk her up soon.
Yeah fun mate! I don’t doubt it can all just be pheno relatex!
Some have. Genetic greedy to thair own detriment switch? Makes sense!
Some have. Genetic greedy to thair own detriment switch? Makes sense!
By having bound sources of P aka dry amendments. Oftentimes I sprinkle a little Soft Rock Phosphate a little below my root ball on transplant so the myco can mine it.
As long as you have your P sources bound up or in certain areas you’ll be successful. The reason liquid nutrients are such a problem is they not only introduce available P they also tend to saturate the entire container making the entire medium one big available P pot. The quote @InTheShed posted talks about it a bit. If you go to the source it expands on this even more.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. Myco can have enormous benefits in the correct environment. P supply is one of its big sellers but it’s not the only one. Myco can also provide as much as 25% N as well as various other elements. It can extend root radius, increase water uptake, make them more resilient, etc. You lose these benefits though when you introduce available P. Sheds quote covered it nicely. There’s a lot of signaling and communication between the plant and myco. The presence of high amounts of N and P discourages this signaling, scaring the myco off.
Correct.. This is why I’ve always opted for the “scares myco away” description. Killing fungus is tough without a fungicide. More often than not you’re likely either going to restrict it or push it into dormancy. However because of how long it takes for myco to colonize and become effective, every time you restrict this you set yourself back, never really getting the benefits.
Did you use a pure myco or one of the great white types with more than myco in it? Do you have a journal showcasing this I can look at?
I keep reading this in an accusatory tone for some reason so just a heads up I don’t mean it to be lol, I’m genuinely interested
- Thread starter
- #179
Day 34
Huh.
Do si dos
Do si dos #33
Gelato
I did that over multiple years to see if there was any benefit. I also gave them all a standard fertilization regime of Miracle Gro during veg, switching to standard tomato fertilizer at fruit set.
The MGs NPK is something ridiculous like 15-30-15.
The myco plants were bigger, healthier, and yielded better every year, so eventually I just went with myco in all pots before switching to a soil that already had glomus intraradices spores added.
The article says the plant limits the colonization by mycos, but it doesn't stop it outright.
I don't have any journals or pics, which is why I don't usually bring it up, or use it to give advice.
I didn't read your question as accusatory, just a request for information. I would be asking similar questions in your place.
Huh.
Do si dos
Do si dos #33
Gelato
I was referring to pepper plants of the same age and strain being planted in the same media, only with half of them given myco, and the other half not.
I did that over multiple years to see if there was any benefit. I also gave them all a standard fertilization regime of Miracle Gro during veg, switching to standard tomato fertilizer at fruit set.
The MGs NPK is something ridiculous like 15-30-15.
The myco plants were bigger, healthier, and yielded better every year, so eventually I just went with myco in all pots before switching to a soil that already had glomus intraradices spores added.
The article says the plant limits the colonization by mycos, but it doesn't stop it outright.
I used a product called Myke vegetable and herb. It's just mycos. As I said, this was with hot peppers, and it was before I joined the military, so long before I started growing cannabis.
I don't have any journals or pics, which is why I don't usually bring it up, or use it to give advice.
I didn't read your question as accusatory, just a request for information. I would be asking similar questions in your place.
#33 looks a lot happier, leaves are fairly horizontal & looks a bit bigger than the Gelato, niceDay 34
Huh.
Do si dos
Do si dos #33
Gelato
I was referring to pepper plants of the same age and strain being planted in the same media, only with half of them given myco, and the other half not.
I did that over multiple years to see if there was any benefit. I also gave them all a standard fertilization regime of Miracle Gro during veg, switching to standard tomato fertilizer at fruit set.
The MGs NPK is something ridiculous like 15-30-15.
The myco plants were bigger, healthier, and yielded better every year, so eventually I just went with myco in all pots before switching to a soil that already had glomus intraradices spores added.
The article says the plant limits the colonization by mycos, but it doesn't stop it outright.
I used a product called Myke vegetable and herb. It's just mycos. I said, this was with hot peppers, and it was before I joined the military, so long before I started growing cannabis.
I don't have any journals or pics, which is why I don't usually bring it up, or use it to give advice.
I didn't read your question as accusatory, just a request for information. I would be asking similar questions in your place.