Yes you could, but you would only be using your expensive full spectrum LED lights for 7 hours or less per day.. And for the price you paid, I'm sure you would think it's a waste..Especially since to do this 24hr flowering method all you need is a blue source that is 425nm through 445nm dominate and 660nm and 730nm. So you need three spectrums... Blue,Red and IR 730nm and three timers. pretty simple once you see it done.
Everything LED, Open Source Light?
- Thread starter Scooby_Snacks
- Start date
Wow. Is all I have to say after reading through all of this. The 24 hour method sounds great. I'm currently using a 90w UFO 460nm blue, and 660nm red lighting in a a 10 sqft area.
I was wondering if my current unit could support the 6 1/2 hours of the 24 hours or if I would need to get a new unit with more wattage?
I was wondering if my current unit could support the 6 1/2 hours of the 24 hours or if I would need to get a new unit with more wattage?
A blue only ufo would be better.. But the only all blue ufo I've seen are 460nm or 470nm blue..Not the best blue only source at all..They need to make a 440nm or better yet a 420/440nm blue only ufo.
Yes that ufo will work as the 6.5 hour (blue) source in the 24hr method..It's not the most optimum lighting, but yes it will work..Any full spectrum lighting will work for the blue light source. It's just that 425/440nm blue is the best. I use a small wattage MH for this purpose. MH's are a very blue dominate light source..
But 10 sq feet IMO requires at least aprox 350w of led's using the 24hr method.. So to make your setup work good, you would need aprox 250w of 660nm (2 120w 660nm panels) spread out evenly throughout the garden plus one 75w incandescent black light bulb (preferably on a dimmer switch) or two 40w T10 incandescent black light bulbs, again (on a dimmer switch). I like using two T10 incandescent black light bulbs because it helps spread out the 730nm more evenly over the canopy and using a dimmer switch helps control the intensity during early flowering stretch (the first two weeks for most strains)..After aprox three weeks into flowering. I have the 730nm black lights intensity ramped all the way up.
A 90w(ufo) + 250w(660nm) + 75w(incandescent black light) = 415w total.. Those three lights on three separate timers and your well on your way to competing with any 400w HID setup. Also believe it or not you will use a lot less wattage per day then a typical 12/12 HID setup.
If you would like I could give you an example of what I'm talking about as far as power consumption is concerned...
A blue only ufo would be better.. But the only all blue ufo I've seen are 460nm or 470nm blue..Not the best blue only source at all..They need to make a 440nm or better yet a 420/440nm blue only ufo.
Yes that ufo will work as the 6.5 hour (blue) source in the 24hr method..It's not the most optimum lighting, but yes it will work..Any full spectrum lighting will work for the blue light source. It's just that 425/440nm blue is the best. I use a small wattage MH for this purpose. MH's are a very blue dominate light source..
But 10 sq feet IMO requires at least aprox 350w of led's using the 24hr method.. So to make your setup work good, you would need aprox 250w of 660nm (2 120w 660nm panels) spread out evenly throughout the garden plus one 75w incandescent black light bulb (preferably on a dimmer switch) or two 40w T10 incandescent black light bulbs, again (on a dimmer switch). I like using two T10 incandescent black light bulbs because it helps spread out the 730nm more evenly over the canopy and using a dimmer switch helps control the intensity during early flowering stretch (the first two weeks for most strains)..After aprox three weeks into flowering. I have the 730nm black lights intensity ramped all the way up.
A 90w(ufo) + 250w(660nm) + 75w(incandescent black light) = 415w total.. Those three lights on three separate timers and your well on your way to competing with any 400w HID setup. Also believe it or not you will use a lot less wattage per day then a typical 12/12 HID setup.
If you would like I could give you an example of what I'm talking about as far as power consumption is concerned...
Ya an example would be great. I just started a new LED grow with the UFO, and I'm extremely interested in the 24 hour method mentioned in this thread for when I get to flowering next month.
Yo what's up everyone.
Dog, I tried to PM you but dont have enough posts to do so yet...
I have read lots of your posts all over the net which have inspired my current effort.
I have a rauber PAD grow going. I started a thread, dont mean to hijack this one
Calling all martians
There are some pics posted, the grow area is within the requested max size for posting pics of 36" x 36", its actually 30" x 40". This morning tho, I moved the girls into their new home, I changed my HPS to a vertical set up and built some shelves. I set up the 2 90w red 660nm LED UFO's and 4 75w black lights along with 1000w dimmable HPS currently running at 600w inplace of the 90w blue 452nm LED UFO I had been using which I'll use to veg some clones now...
452nm all blue LED UFO from ebay, the wavelength peaks at 452 but should take a nice little swip below 450nm, seemed to work well the set up I had going, check the pics to see results, plants look good.
I am curious to see how the plants respond to different set up with HPS replacing blue LED. Also space is larger 48" x 48" so red LED more spread out and so is black light. Unfortunately this space is larger than the max pic posting size requested by the temporal photonics guys, so unless I am told otherwise I dont think I should be posting pics of this set up yet... altho you can see the smaller set up in the thread I linked to...
peace all and respect
Dog, I tried to PM you but dont have enough posts to do so yet...
I have read lots of your posts all over the net which have inspired my current effort.
I have a rauber PAD grow going. I started a thread, dont mean to hijack this one
Calling all martians
There are some pics posted, the grow area is within the requested max size for posting pics of 36" x 36", its actually 30" x 40". This morning tho, I moved the girls into their new home, I changed my HPS to a vertical set up and built some shelves. I set up the 2 90w red 660nm LED UFO's and 4 75w black lights along with 1000w dimmable HPS currently running at 600w inplace of the 90w blue 452nm LED UFO I had been using which I'll use to veg some clones now...
452nm all blue LED UFO from ebay, the wavelength peaks at 452 but should take a nice little swip below 450nm, seemed to work well the set up I had going, check the pics to see results, plants look good.
I am curious to see how the plants respond to different set up with HPS replacing blue LED. Also space is larger 48" x 48" so red LED more spread out and so is black light. Unfortunately this space is larger than the max pic posting size requested by the temporal photonics guys, so unless I am told otherwise I dont think I should be posting pics of this set up yet... altho you can see the smaller set up in the thread I linked to...
peace all and respect
Ok this might get kind of confusing but I'm going to give this a try...LOL..
This example is using 6.5 hours of a blue lighting source or (full spectrum lighting) and 17.5 hours of PAD lighting.
This example is using your 90w UFO led source.. Then 660nm and 730nm with three separate timers
OK the 24hr flowering method is all about cycling the three spectrums Red,Blue,730nm with three different timers.
So the first power consumption is the 90w ufo.. 90w x 6.5 hours on per day = 585 watts used in a 24 hour period.
The blue light source or the (full spectrum light) dose not CYCLE. It stay's on the full 6.5 hours.
Second is the 660nm. This spectrum cycles every 1/2 hour on then a 1/2 hour off for the full 24 hour period. So the 660nm actually only runs 12 hours per day......We will use the 250w of 660nm for this example..
250w x 12 hours per day = 3,000 watts per day.
Third is the 730nm. This spectrum only runs after the blue light turns off. It cycles opposite the 660nm after the blue light goes out. (I hope this is making scene) It's part of what's called PAD lighting. It also cycles for a 1/2 hour on then a 1/2 hour off. Now if you take away the 6.5 hours of blue lighting (on time), this leaves us with 17.5 hours left in the 24hr day. The 730 spectrum cycles every 1/2 hour opposite the 660nm for the rest of the 17.5 hours of the 24 hours. The 17.5 hours of lighting is what's called (PAD) lighting...So the 730nm spectrum only runs for a total of 8.75 hours per day when using 6.5 hours of blue lighting (on time). When you change the blue lighting (on time) down to let's say 5.5 hours on (for ripening) then the 730nm would cycle for longer because your PAD lighting time would now be on for 18.5 hours. Dose this make sence..
So 75 watts of 730nm x 8.75 hours = 656.25 watts per day.
Add all this up and you have a total lighting power consumption per 24 hours of 4,241.25 watts used per 24hr day..
A 400w HPS (Digital) using aprox 400 actual watts per hour goes like this. 400 x 12 = 4,800 watts used per 24hr day..
A 400w HPS (Magnetic ballast) using aprox 460 watts per hour goes like this. 460w x 12 = 5,520 watts used per 24hr day..
Ok I will get over there and check it out... Ya they want only public 3x3 areas at this time.. A 30" x 40" is ok though..
Your example made perfect sence. I cant wait until I get to flowering to try this out.
GrowLEDHydro
New Member
Yo I can get panels to your specs made with my led's.. it may take about 3 to 4 weeks but it can be done.. If anyone's interested hit me up..
BörjeBlue
New Member
First of Respect to all those that want to optimize the use of LED's for making med's!!
Dogsnova i have some questions, but i cant PM you since i lack post's to do so, can you maybe PM me a mail address so we can talk private?
again Respect to every LED user!
Dogsnova i have some questions, but i cant PM you since i lack post's to do so, can you maybe PM me a mail address so we can talk private?
again Respect to every LED user!
cathymagurno
New Member
Hey boys,
I have been following Mother, Sal & The Dogman here since fall of last year. I originally switched over to LED's in the fall and could not be happier with my previous experience. I am ready to move on to the more exotic! I have read the forums back till 2006 looked at Mother's MM grow #1 and #2 and saw some learning going on.
Now here is my question as it seems that technology has changed a lot. Even the PAD method has changed a bit.
You have your 3 stages or used to (Regular Light or PAL) your PAD (Or Artificial Darkeness) and you used to have to have some true darkness as well (SID).
Now it seem that it is not the case anymore?
Question #2. My previous grows were using both a Lighthouse Triband UV and the newer model with 6 bands and white LED's. I had some very interesting and unexpected results!
1) Can I use either of my current LED's for the PAL part of this grow? Or would you need to know the exact ratios of wavelengths?
2) When I started learning about this, there was no mention of black lights. Can someone tell me the purpose? Is it for UV?
So here is what I have on order for a 48" X 48" area. 4 - 90w Cree 660nm all red. I am debating using the all White LED's with the blue peak as I have had extreme results with another version of this light. The whole reason I went to LED's was because I hate heat and the fire risk in my house with the kids. I would like know what ratio of blues or I may test the white HO in place of it.
Now my question is, what is the ratio of output needed between the blue and 660nm and 730nm. Each produce a different amount of power, 660's more than the blue 460's etc.
Gotta get back to the kids! Thanks all of you so much!
Cathy
I have been following Mother, Sal & The Dogman here since fall of last year. I originally switched over to LED's in the fall and could not be happier with my previous experience. I am ready to move on to the more exotic! I have read the forums back till 2006 looked at Mother's MM grow #1 and #2 and saw some learning going on.
Now here is my question as it seems that technology has changed a lot. Even the PAD method has changed a bit.
You have your 3 stages or used to (Regular Light or PAL) your PAD (Or Artificial Darkeness) and you used to have to have some true darkness as well (SID).
Now it seem that it is not the case anymore?
Question #2. My previous grows were using both a Lighthouse Triband UV and the newer model with 6 bands and white LED's. I had some very interesting and unexpected results!
1) Can I use either of my current LED's for the PAL part of this grow? Or would you need to know the exact ratios of wavelengths?
2) When I started learning about this, there was no mention of black lights. Can someone tell me the purpose? Is it for UV?
So here is what I have on order for a 48" X 48" area. 4 - 90w Cree 660nm all red. I am debating using the all White LED's with the blue peak as I have had extreme results with another version of this light. The whole reason I went to LED's was because I hate heat and the fire risk in my house with the kids. I would like know what ratio of blues or I may test the white HO in place of it.
Now my question is, what is the ratio of output needed between the blue and 660nm and 730nm. Each produce a different amount of power, 660's more than the blue 460's etc.
Gotta get back to the kids! Thanks all of you so much!
Cathy
cathymagurno
New Member
So what I can see, there are 4 lights in the system... 425nm blue, possibly white, 660nm, 730nm you have the blue/white in the "daylight" periods and then the 660nm/730nm in the "nighttime" periods.
Am I getting this correctly?
If I am going for 12/12 or 12/24
8:00am 425
8:15 425/white
8:45 425
9:15 425/white
etc...
8:00pm 660nm
8:15pm 660/730nm
8:45pm 660nm
and so on
Am I getting this correctly?
If I am going for 12/12 or 12/24
8:00am 425
8:15 425/white
8:45 425
9:15 425/white
etc...
8:00pm 660nm
8:15pm 660/730nm
8:45pm 660nm
and so on
It's much easer just to look at it like this. 4 to 6 hours of 425nm/660nm (this is your daylight). Then 18 to 20 hours of 730/660nm (this is your PAD lighting). The 6/18 lighting schedule is real close to a standard 12/12 flower. The 4/20 lighting schedule (4 hours of daylight and 20 hours of PAD lighting) is a lot like a 14/10 flowering.
So as you can see it takes some fine tuning to find you plants correct PAD timing.
From my understanding the true PAD lighting setup is 425nm 660nm and 730nm. Three spectrums, three timers and currently a lot of tuning..LOL
So as you can see it takes some fine tuning to find you plants correct PAD timing.
From my understanding the true PAD lighting setup is 425nm 660nm and 730nm. Three spectrums, three timers and currently a lot of tuning..LOL
cathymagurno
New Member
Hmmm... I must be suffering from brain freeze. Now I have seen in the manual that any wavelength above 600nm can be used. Anyone tried this with 630nm?
Please forgive my silly or stupid I just would like to try this with the new light.
8:00am 425nm
8:15am 425/660
8:45am 425nm
Wash & Repeat for 6 hours
2:00pm 660
2:15pm 660/730
2:45pm 660
And does that continue for the remainder?
As a start of course.
So with 6/18 schedule .. the 660nm are not on for the full 18 hours of PAD
Please forgive my silly or stupid I just would like to try this with the new light.
8:00am 425nm
8:15am 425/660
8:45am 425nm
Wash & Repeat for 6 hours
2:00pm 660
2:15pm 660/730
2:45pm 660
And does that continue for the remainder?
As a start of course.
So with 6/18 schedule .. the 660nm are not on for the full 18 hours of PAD
PAD advanced flowering.
This will be the best way for me to explain this. The 660nm runs the full 24hrs in half hour cycles (12 actual hours) on it's own timer. You start your red 660 half hour cycles, 15 mins before you turn on your blue light source. Then you turn your blue light (on it's own timer) on for lets say 5 hours, no cycling of the blue light. i.e. the blue light is not on for a half hour then off for a half hour, BUT the red 660nm is.. Now after the blue light goes off you should have 15 mins of 660nm time left. At the end of this 660nm 15 mins the 730nm spectrum (on it's own timer) comes on for a half hour and then goes off. Then the 660nm comes back on for a half hour and then goes off (in perfect half hour increments each) for the rest of the 24hrs.
So the day begins with aprox 15 mins of 660nm and ends with aprox 15 mins of 660nm. Then the PAD time starts and continues for the remainder of the 24hrs.
Note* Each spectrum, 660nm and 730nm are now on separately for a half hour each during this PAD lighting time.
Hope this make sense?
trichtone
New Member
Thanks Dogsnova for the description on this. I have read the PAD manual and felt that I was close to understanding the basics of it. What you just wrote made it click for me. I have been really interested in starting a PAD grow and I think I am almost ready to jump into it.
BTW....I believe I read in some of you earlier posts you have had some good success with PAD. Are you still growing with the PAD method? How do you think it compares to a straight up grow.
I can't thank you enough for the info you posted. +rep to you man.
Oh yeah...good luck to you Cathy on your grow
BTW....I believe I read in some of you earlier posts you have had some good success with PAD. Are you still growing with the PAD method? How do you think it compares to a straight up grow.
I can't thank you enough for the info you posted. +rep to you man.
Oh yeah...good luck to you Cathy on your grow
Trich what's up?.. Yes I still do PAD. It's kind of tricky to get the timing correct for the strain that your using, but once you have the setup correct your good to go as far as timing goes. The black lights (witch are being used for the 730nm in my case) are for one, Hot as Hell and it makes it hard to find a good place for them in some gardens. Another thing is, since the 660nm needs to be on a timer that has 24 half hour settings and currently the only timer I can find for this type of setting is one of those mechanical ones that have the push pull pins all the way around the dial. I'm sure you've seen them. So basically you start there. Once you get your red 600-700nm (preferably 660nm) going on and off every half hour for the full 24hrs you then move on to the blue timer.
Now you add your blue timer (blue light) 425-445, this can also be any full spectrum lighting. I would start at around 6 hours of blue light. Just make sure you set it up so there is aprox 15 min of red 600-700 before and after the blue light.
Next you set your 730nm timer. It needs to cycle on and off every half hour with the 660nm after the blue light goes off (this is the PAD lighting). IMO this is the hardest timer to set. The 730nm should be on a digital timer. It only needs to come on and go off at the most 10 times per day during the grow and currently the highest number of on/off times I can find in a digital timer is 20. So that's why we have to use a mechanical one for the 24 half hour 660nm settings.
Here's another thing. Your going to have to use your digital 730nm timer to overlap your 660nm timer by aprox 2 mins during the PAD lighting. You do this so you don't have SID (standard indoor darkness) in between your 660/730nm half hour switching.. This is important so your flowering is not delayed. Plus the digital timers believe it or not loose a few seconds per day. The digital 730nm timer needs to be reset about every two weeks. At least this is what I've found to be the case with the digital timers I have. There is good news on this front for the future.. Sal and his team is coming out with a Plug and Play PAD timer setup. I can't wait.. Because all this timer setting stuff sucks for the regular grower. Also 730nm led's are not that popular yet for growing, so we have to use black lights that throw a lot of heat during the PAD lighting time.. So currently there are some draw backs on the 730nm front.
I set all this timing mayhem up before I even put one plant in the grow space.. It takes me a few days to be able to see all the switching that goes on between the three timers.. I would also recommend starting out with a small (micro) grow at first. This will prevent you from screwing up a 3x3 area full of your meds. Because once you screw up a 3x3 area full of meds I guarantee you will get frustrated with this PAD flowering method. So please start small, one or two plants at the most.
Now as far as potency. I haven't smoked much indoor grown stuff that hits like PAD weed. If you've got a hard hitting strain to begin with and then grow it PAD style, it will mess you up like no other.
As far as bulk goes.. I'm still getting this part worked out.. The problem here is the price of led's. Good red 660nm led's for the regular grower (like myself) is still on the expensive side. Remember all the three spectrums have to be be purchased separately. So it's a price thing for me to get bulk. But potency is off the hook.
Now you add your blue timer (blue light) 425-445, this can also be any full spectrum lighting. I would start at around 6 hours of blue light. Just make sure you set it up so there is aprox 15 min of red 600-700 before and after the blue light.
Next you set your 730nm timer. It needs to cycle on and off every half hour with the 660nm after the blue light goes off (this is the PAD lighting). IMO this is the hardest timer to set. The 730nm should be on a digital timer. It only needs to come on and go off at the most 10 times per day during the grow and currently the highest number of on/off times I can find in a digital timer is 20. So that's why we have to use a mechanical one for the 24 half hour 660nm settings.
Here's another thing. Your going to have to use your digital 730nm timer to overlap your 660nm timer by aprox 2 mins during the PAD lighting. You do this so you don't have SID (standard indoor darkness) in between your 660/730nm half hour switching.. This is important so your flowering is not delayed. Plus the digital timers believe it or not loose a few seconds per day. The digital 730nm timer needs to be reset about every two weeks. At least this is what I've found to be the case with the digital timers I have. There is good news on this front for the future.. Sal and his team is coming out with a Plug and Play PAD timer setup. I can't wait.. Because all this timer setting stuff sucks for the regular grower. Also 730nm led's are not that popular yet for growing, so we have to use black lights that throw a lot of heat during the PAD lighting time.. So currently there are some draw backs on the 730nm front.
I set all this timing mayhem up before I even put one plant in the grow space.. It takes me a few days to be able to see all the switching that goes on between the three timers.. I would also recommend starting out with a small (micro) grow at first. This will prevent you from screwing up a 3x3 area full of your meds. Because once you screw up a 3x3 area full of meds I guarantee you will get frustrated with this PAD flowering method. So please start small, one or two plants at the most.
Now as far as potency. I haven't smoked much indoor grown stuff that hits like PAD weed. If you've got a hard hitting strain to begin with and then grow it PAD style, it will mess you up like no other.
As far as bulk goes.. I'm still getting this part worked out.. The problem here is the price of led's. Good red 660nm led's for the regular grower (like myself) is still on the expensive side. Remember all the three spectrums have to be be purchased separately. So it's a price thing for me to get bulk. But potency is off the hook.
