DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest

[JustMeds]

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you JustMeds. Thinkin' about givin' it a go?

 

[SweetSue]

You know guys, I stopped even checking the humidity level in my refrigerator, and it seems to not make any difference. I'm not all that careful about opening the fridge up either. I open it to get out what I need, without thought to the harvest drying in the crisper in paper bags.

The paper bags are making all the difference, IMO. They help regulate the humidity fluctuations and there's no moisture building up on them. Lately I've been two weeks in the bag, and then finishing with rice to get them stable at 62%. It's been working like clockwork.

 

[SweetSue]

Using rice as a dessicant is a good idea, but a couple of words of caution here:

First, check the rice after each use to see if any is damp or soft. If it is, discard it; rice is too cheap to take any chances. My wife and I make a fermented Thai sausage where rice is the inoculant. The rice contains the bacteria that sours the sausage. The surface of rice is extremely porous. And this bacteria (more likely, family of bacteria) appears to be endemic and thankfully benign. But that porous surface could collect others, as well as molds. Not all of these would be killed off at 200 degrees in your oven. So it necessary to make sure the rice has not become too damp.

Second, many are putting the rice in sachets, or rice balls. This makes sense and I'll probably do the same. But using pantyhose, thigh-highs? After all the effort to make the best medicine you can? What might be leaching into it? Wouldn't it make more sense to use cheesecloth, tied with cotton (or hemp) string? You could still put these in the oven reuse them, after checking for damp or soft spots.

Back to the darkside

I use paint strainers. They're the perfect size and porosity for the job I want them to do.

Thanks for the cautionary tale greatwolf. It can be so easy to overlook something this simple.

 

[overlord]

You know guys, I stopped even checking the humidity level in my refrigerator, and it seems to not make any difference. I'm not all that careful about opening the fridge up either. I open it to get out what I need, without thought to the harvest drying in the crisper in paper bags.

The paper bags are making all the difference, IMO. They help regulate the humidity fluctuations and there's no moisture building up on them. Lately I've been two weeks in the bag, and then finishing with rice to get them stable at 62%. It's been working like clockwork.

Thanks Sue,

May I inquire where you found the small humidity gauges? I have looked around and see bigger ones that seem to big for a jar. Some I saw had bad reviews stating they were not accurate.

Also how long do the buds need with the rice? I do realize this can vary with conditions, but was looking for a ballpark estimate.

 

[SweetSue]

Thanks Sue,

May I inquire where you found the small humidity gauges? I have looked around and see bigger ones that seem to big for a jar. Some I saw had bad reviews stating they were not accurate.

Also how long do the buds need with the rice? I do realize this can vary with conditions, but was looking for a ballpark estimate.

My meter came from the reptile department of our local Pet's Mart. It's been reliable for years. I keep meaning to pick up another one.

I drop the rice in the jars and watch the meter, but there's usually a dramatic drop in humidity within ten minutes that continues fairly aggressively for the next half hour to an hour.

My process is to let the humidity get to around 60% and then remove the rice. When humidity levels creep up past 65% I repeat that process until it's all stable at 62% - 65%. If I get it too low a Boveda'll bring it back into range. In the end I usually play with the buds for an afternoon, say three to four hours. A lot of that time I just forgot to go back and check, so it may go faster.

 

[JustMeds]

Thank you JustMeds. Thinkin' about givin' it a go?

Thinking about giving it a shot. Has anyone done the step by step for those of us who's eyes hurt from reading shit... LOL

 

[SweetSue]

Thinking about giving it a shot. Has anyone done the step by step for those of us who's eyes hurt from reading shit... LOL

The process is a simple one. You want humidity levels at around 45-50% and temperatures at 40-45 degrees F.

* Harvest and wash buds, if that's your inclination. I will tell you, that washing the buds will fascilitate a more even and faster dry. Most of us let the branches hang to dry for around 4 hours. This is completely arbitrary. You're going to dry them nonetheless.

* Trim the buds from the branches small enough that they won't take forever to dry. It'll take a round or two to find your personal sweet spot, but everyone has their own comfort zone.

* Place the buds in jars that'll be gently tumbled daily or every three days, or into paper bags. In either case keep in mind that you're trying to create maximum surface area, so avoid overloading the storage container.

* Occasionally tumble, seperate, or do whatever floats your boat to keep the buds from forming a big, sticky ball. I find that I have great luck with the bags if about every three days I stick a hand in and move things around.

* Once a week let the buds air dry in a room with reasonable humidity to help drop the levels a little faster. I usually don't start doing this until the second week. Larger buds can take up to three weeks to get down to below 70% humidity, but in bags, most material is ready to work the rest of the humidity out in jars, and the cure begins at the two-week mark. I use rice to help with this.

* When you have them stable in the jars, begin curing as per your favorite method.

That's pretty much it. The link keltic shared further up this page is more detailed instructions. It's becoming second nature to many of us.

Edit: I was wrong about keltic leaving a link. I'll track it down and get back in a minute.

Here ya go.

Furcifer's Low and Slow Guidelines

 

[greatwolf]

SweetSue suggested that I post this here, so I cut and pasted it from my journal:

First, a shot of the bud the volunteered for today's sacrifice of need/experiment:

Weight before trim:

Weight after trim:

This bud is comparable to the one that was sampled last Monday, just a week later. Oh, and about 70% larger (after trim, which is what really counts, right?).

As I explained above, I decided to take a sample due to pain and lack of sleep. I also decided to try one of my drying experiments that I'd hoped for fairly rapid dehydration without much degradation. I do have a food dehydrator that I can use to dry buds but am concerned about extended heat and fan blowing across the buds. I have another experiment planned that is more passive than this one, but have not yet printed the 3D parts so could not test today.

Today's test was more active; as I was already in pain it seemed like I had little to lose. It's based on the concept of freeze drying. Few of us have a freeze dryer at home. But some of us have a vacuum sealer. And some of those have the attachment for vacuum sealing mason jars. I do, and decided to try it. My thought is that if this works than by not exposing the buds to high temps or constant fans, most of the chemicals we want would be preserved.

My Theory:

Although I cannot flash freeze, the freezer will freeze the buds sufficiently for our purposes. From what I remember, the trichromes contain very little, if any, water, so are in little danger of rupturing. The plant cell walls, on the other hand, will rupture and expose the water molecules, making evaporation easier. Surrounding the 'damaged' bud with warm, dry air, letting it pick up this moisture, then vacuuming out the moister air and replacing it with warm, dry air again. Simple enough, right?

Instead of trying to burst all of the cells at once, I thought it might be best to try it at layers, so I did multiple freezes. I say multiple freezes because I was tired and lost count. It was 4 or 5.

The setup:

I used a pint jar in the freezer (it just fit better), with the lid half off the jar, a string stuck on the bottom of the lid by a piece of silicone putty, and the string holding the bud suspended about halfway in the jar.

The process:

1. Place the jar with lid offset (so air can freely flow in) in the freezer for 45 minutes to an hour (temp registered 5 degrees).
2. Heat up a quart mason jar while the bud is freezing. I poured hot water in there and let it sit. Poured it out and dried out inside of jar.
3. Move lid with bud to quart jar, attach vacuum, and draw air out.
4. When humidity starts to rise, open lid to let in fresh air.
5. Repeat 3 and 4 until humidity does not go lower when drawing vacuum.

I repeated 1 through 5 until I got down to 10% RH and would not go lower. Understand that this is not actually 10% and if allowed to sit I estimate it would be around 65%, maybe a little lower.

The final analysis:

This seems to work, but needs to be replicated/verified. I don't think I lost much, if any, of the volatile components; the smell of the bud afterwards was nearly identical to what I get when I open the grow tent - very intense. I suspect it would cure well, but won't find out, sample size is to small. But...

Will this help with pain and sleep tonight?

Will it scale up to larger, denser buds?

Will it scale up to multiple buds per jar?

Remember, this part is if someone can quickly produce oil from harvest and the jury is still out on this.

Back to the darkside.

 

[Rider509]

So I have been trying to read up through this thread, but hoping someone could just answer for me, what's the verdict on the whole "frost free" refrigerator thing? Can I do this with just a normal fridge? Or does it have to be one with the freezer rack at the top contained in the same area?

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that a frost-free fridge makes no difference in the results. Think about it... the only thing the frost-free function provides is a cyclical warming of the freezer coils above 32F for a short period to keep ice from building up. It's the action of the moisture freezing on the coils that reduces humidity.
I'm trying this with a RockStar drink fridge that has no freezer section so that may be an issue as there is no way for moisture to be captured on the coils when set to maintain 42F. Time will tell.

 

[Rider509]

Here's a thought. Temperature and humidity are inversely proportional. If we have a sealed system at 70F that contains a 62% rH environment, when we cool that sealed environment the humidity goes up. By experimentation we should be able to reverse that and accurately predict what the rH of the cannabis buds will be at room temps given a rH in the fridge at our desired low and slow drying temps. Has anyone tried this or have any empirical evidence that this works?
I'm applying this thinking along the lines of a dedicated fridge, not one that is used in the kitchen.

 

[Rider509]

SweetSue suggested that I post this here, so I cut and pasted it from my journal:
Back to the darkside.

I like this line of experimentation. I too have wondered about pulling a vacuum down to -30inHg, the theory being that it would boil off the liquids. I have so much surplus yield from my current grow that I may give it a shot, only I'd pull the vacuum on fresh buds at room temp. If I do, I'll post the results here. As I wouldn't want to risk the sacrifice an LCD humidity meter to the cause I'd pull the vacuum for short intervals and record the weight at each step. I'm going to science the sh*t out of this.

 

[JustMeds]

I have a feeling we are about to witness some NASA shit. I got my auto's out of the fridge and in jars. It is very, very smooth smoke.

Rider, you my friend may want to look into the trucking yards for a good refrigerated trailer. You are going to need the room.

 

[JustMeds]

I knew it was coming... Hehe

 

[Rider509]

JustMeds, the voices make me do it.
So the jar in there has been holding steady at 62%rH at 70F for about a week, with no Boveda packs. When the fridge recovers and the temp in the jar reaches equilibrium with the fridge I'll pull it out and see what the rH reads. Should be enlightening.

Cold cure test

• Rider509
• Feb 25, 2018

 

[TheFertilizer]

Here's a thought. Temperature and humidity are inversely proportional. If we have a sealed system at 70F that contains a 62% rH environment, when we cool that sealed environment the humidity goes up. By experimentation we should be able to reverse that and accurately predict what the rH of the cannabis buds will be at room temps given a rH in the fridge at our desired low and slow drying temps. Has anyone tried this or have any empirical evidence that this works?
I'm applying this thinking along the lines of a dedicated fridge, not one that is used in the kitchen.

Well it kind of sounds similar to the principles of Vapor Pressure Deficit. Warmer air has higher moisture carrying capacity than cooler air and so on and so forth. There are charts out there showing what RH level one should keep their grow room at according to the temperature, so that the Vapor Pressure Defecit isn't high or low, and helps plant transpiration. So I know the relationship between RH and temperature is definitely there, I just don't know how you would be able to accurately track and measure what moisture level the buds should be at given the RH and temperature in a fridge.

So, for example, you know the Boveda 62% humidity packs? I kept some bud in a quart mason jar with those, and when I had it analyzed, the moisture came back at 12%. However, depending on the air temperature inside that mason jar, that bud probably could have varied in moisture content because the air would have different moisture-carrying capacity at the same RH level, but at varying temperatures. In other words, if I had kept the jar cooler/warmer, would it have drawn more moisture out of that bud and lead to it being greater or lower than 12%.

 

[Rider509]

So I know the relationship between RH and temperature is definitely there, I just don't know how you would be able to accurately track and measure what moisture level the buds should be at given the RH and temperature in a fridge.

It seems intuitive that if a closed system is 62%rH at 70F and say 67%rH at 42F, then when your closed fridge system reaches 67%rh at 42F it should be 62%rH at 70F. Just a theory being put to the test. I could be all kinds of wrong.

edit: Maybe I misunderstood your thoughts. I'm speculating that the total environmental humidity inside the fridge will be reflective of the moisture content of the buds, which can be measured with a temp/humidity gauge.

 

[Rider509]

...you know the Boveda 62% humidity packs? I kept some bud in a quart mason jar with those, and when I had it analyzed, the moisture came back at 12%. However, depending on the air temperature inside that mason jar, that bud probably could have varied in moisture content because the air would have different moisture-carrying capacity at the same RH level, but at varying temperatures. In other words, if I had kept the jar cooler/warmer, would it have drawn more moisture out of that bud and lead to it being greater or lower than 12%.

Good call.The Bovedas are designed to optimize humidity at typical room temps. And you're right about the moisture content of the plant material being higher or lower with a Boveda pack in a sealed environment at temps outside of "room temp." It is, after all, relative humidity.


edit: Hey, Fert, any idea what the optimal moisture content of the plant material should be? I have no idea.

 

[JustMeds]

Will drawing a vacuum on it explode the heads on the trichomes?

 

[TheFertilizer]

Good call.The Bovedas are designed to optimize humidity at typical room temps. And you're right about the moisture content of the plant material being higher or lower with a Boveda pack in a sealed environment at temps outside of "room temp." It is, after all, relative humidity.


edit: Hey, Fert, any idea what the optimal moisture content of the plant material should be? I have no idea.

I've heard different takes on that, but it seems like 5-15% is a "good" range. Below is too dry, higher is too moist. The more moist it is the better it stores, less trichome breaking, but personally at 12% I liked to air it out a bit before smoking because I found it burned better.

Will drawing a vacuum on it explode the heads on the trichomes?

I'm gonna venture a risk and say no, based on the fact I've seen people vacuum pack their weed and have never heard of that happening.