DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest

[SLHLover]

It's such an incredible advantage to have all these brains circling around the same experiment.

Yes. Nothing beats learning from experience, so by posting our experiences we can learn a lot from one another

I do want to add a caveat to what I was saying about the slow & low dry/cure in a fridge.

I have read extensively about drying before I tried fridge drying myself and have to say that nearly all of the material I read advised against drying or storing herb in the fridge for this reason: because the fridge tends to be accessed many times a day, the temperature and RH will fluctuate greatly and the risk of mould/fungus developing (even in sealed containers) is greatly increased.

That's what nearly every article I read had to say on the subject. I think essentially it is correct - when talking about the family fridge which is opened many times a day. During my drying period of approx 15 days, I opened the fridge maybe every 4 days to check temp/RH, to check for any fungus or mold and to shake the paper bags (very quickly!) so there weren't constant fluctuations in temps/RH. Needless to say I disinfected the whole fridge (including seals) with bleach before I started the process. So far no problems but I remain vigilant.

My only worry is during the cure process in the fridge - as I am burping the jars once a day now. I am as fast as I can be when opening the fridge door and opening the jars, but I do notice that even 10 seconds with the door open can raise temps by 10 celsius and RH by 15%. I will see how it goes. My issue is with storing. I will not be using the fridge for storage. I have an inside storage area, but it will be around 27-30 celsius with fluctuating RH (80% at night down to 40-60% daytime) for the next 3 months and A/C is not an option in this space. I have to dry and cure and store herb in the same area. If the fridge cure works, great, but there still remains the issue of storing (usually around 3 months) in a hot environment. I have the feeling that longer term storage in the fridge (more than a month) may not be a great idea. I will try it with one bud but think that during the summer months my only options are drying and curing for at least a month then putting in sealed (maybe with a vacuum) jars and storing in the freezer OR doing as I do currently and storing in sealed jars and placing in the dark in the coolest part of my storage area. Temps can get to 29 celsius in the storage space but I have noticed the RH in the jars generally stays between 55-65%. A curious effect of storing in jars in an indoor area that gets quite hot is that I have seen the trichomes on many a bud stored for a couple of months this way, turn from cloudy/milky to deep red. My main crop is Super Lemon Haze (surprise surprise) and buds stored this way do taste v nice and the high is pretty much the same - maybe a bit more intense - after curing and two months in the jar at these high room temps. I am fairly well-read on the subject but no expert and first assumed the THC in the trichomes was turning to CBD as a result of the high temps whilst drying/curing/storing, but the high is still definitely that of the sativa-dominant SLH. Strange that.

The juggling and cartwheels one has to do to maintain some sort of stable environment without A/C eh? Does anyone else harvest, dry and store in a hotter than ideal environment without A/C? Would love to hear how you deal with it.

 

[TorturedSoul]

EDIT: Sorry, exhausted.

 

[Skullman420]

I love this thread

 

[SweetSue]

Yes. Nothing beats learning from experience, so by posting our experiences we can learn a lot from one another

I do want to add a caveat to what I was saying about the slow & low dry/cure in a fridge.

I have read extensively about drying before I tried fridge drying myself and have to say that nearly all of the material I read advised against drying or storing herb in the fridge for this reason: because the fridge tends to be accessed many times a day, the temperature and RH will fluctuate greatly and the risk of mould/fungus developing (even in sealed containers) is greatly increased.

That's what nearly every article I read had to say on the subject. I think essentially it is correct - when talking about the family fridge which is opened many times a day. During my drying period of approx 15 days, I opened the fridge maybe every 4 days to check temp/RH, to check for any fungus or mold and to shake the paper bags (very quickly!) so there weren't constant fluctuations in temps/RH. Needless to say I disinfected the whole fridge (including seals) with bleach before I started the process. So far no problems but I remain vigilant.

My only worry is during the cure process in the fridge - as I am burping the jars once a day now. I am as fast as I can be when opening the fridge door and opening the jars, but I do notice that even 10 seconds with the door open can raise temps by 10 celsius and RH by 15%. I will see how it goes. My issue is with storing. I will not be using the fridge for storage. I have an inside storage area, but it will be around 27-30 celsius with fluctuating RH (80% at night down to 40-60% daytime) for the next 3 months and A/C is not an option in this space. I have to dry and cure and store herb in the same area. If the fridge cure works, great, but there still remains the issue of storing (usually around 3 months) in a hot environment. I have the feeling that longer term storage in the fridge (more than a month) may not be a great idea. I will try it with one bud but think that during the summer months my only options are drying and curing for at least a month then putting in sealed (maybe with a vacuum) jars and storing in the freezer OR doing as I do currently and storing in sealed jars and placing in the dark in the coolest part of my storage area. Temps can get to 29 celsius in the storage space but I have noticed the RH in the jars generally stays between 55-65%. A curious effect of storing in jars in an indoor area that gets quite hot is that I have seen the trichomes on many a bud stored for a couple of months this way, turn from cloudy/milky to deep red. My main crop is Super Lemon Haze (surprise surprise) and buds stored this way do taste v nice and the high is pretty much the same - maybe a bit more intense - after curing and two months in the jar at these high room temps. I am fairly well-read on the subject but no expert and first assumed the THC in the trichomes was turning to CBD as a result of the high temps whilst drying/curing/storing, but the high is still definitely that of the sativa-dominant SLH. Strange that.

The juggling and cartwheels one has to do to maintain some sort of stable environment without A/C eh? Does anyone else harvest, dry and store in a hotter than ideal environment without A/C? Would love to hear how you deal with it.

I learned last night how unstable a molecule THCa is. Give it any opportunity and it turns to THC. It's recommended you store THCa-rich meds in a fridge. Sitting out on a counter is enough to change the molecules from acid to psychoactive.

I'd think your situation would make vacuum and fridge attractive storage options. My home stays in the low 70s all the time. My late husband had kidney failure and was sensitive to temperature fluctuations and I developed the habit of maintaining the apartment at 73 degrees F, so no storage concerns from high heat and humidity. Boveda save the day for me.

 

[SweetSue]

EDIT: Sorry, exhausted.

Your eyes could use the rest TS. I've been pushing mine to the limits too. I need to slow it down a bit myself.

 

[SweetSue]

I love this thread

I know what you mean. You should be in the study hall when a bunch of brains converge. The community rooms are my favorite stops.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I learned last night how unstable a molecule THCa is. Give it any opportunity and it turns to THC.

Absolutely. Remember, the decarboxylation process is said to take a moderate amount of heat and a little time - or a low amount of heat and more time. IOW, we don't need to cook it just to see some decarboxylation. At some point in the wee hours last night, I found myself looking at analysis reports of (samples of) some of Ace's strains. Most of it failed to stick in the memory due to exhaustion - and I somehow got sidetracked for an hour or so reading more or less current information about several of the "pre homo sapiens" hominids :icon_roll - but I do remember that most of the reports showed both initial and post-decarboxylation lists. I would have expected the initial ones to show no THC (only THCA)... but I was wrong, lol, because they almost universally had some (relatively low) percentage of THC in "as arrived at the sampling place" condition. <SCRATCHES HEAD> AfaIK, this indicates that some decarboxylation had occurred between harvest and the time the samples arrived for analysis.

I'm a big fan of THCV. If I hadn't already probably posted 23 different off-topic statements in threads today, I'd be asking for a list of strains known for THCV. Hmm... Maybe the landrace sativa thread...

My home stays in the low 70s all the time.

<SIGH> You're just trying to get me to start walking, aren't you?

Your eyes could use the rest TS. I've been pushing mine to the limits too. I need to slow it down a bit myself.

It wasn't my eyes, it was my brain. I saw where someone made a comment about "THC degrading into CBD." And I originally posted something like "Did you mean CBN?" - but suddenly realized that I was at the point where I was getting loopy, so I edited the post into what you saw and crashed for a couple of hours' rest.

I don't really think that THC degrades into CBD. I don't think that's what alters the effects profile. I think it's just that, when THC is lost, the ratio of THC:CBD changes. That's why my opinion for decades has been to choose the strain that matches the effect profile that a person wants/needs (and to harvest it when the plant is ready to be harvested, instead of trying to modify things by changing the harvest date). But... IDK. I'm still tired....

 

[Canyon]

TS,This may make it easier to understand. I keep a copy on my desk.

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Canyon. This time I was smart enough to blog it.

 

[TorturedSoul]

TS,This may make it easier to understand. I keep a copy on my desk.

Thanks. I had something like that, once. I should have laminated it, lol. On the back was a list of the cannabinoids that were identified (at the time) along with what benefits/effects we thought they provided. I'd like to think I gave it away. But I probably lost it. Or the ex-wife threw it away.

I do not like the thought of synthetic cannabinoids, for many reasons. But... At least when they make that crap up in a lab somewhere, it gives them the opportunity to mix them at a variety of ratios and examine the results. The difference in situations... It's like a cook somewhere mixing 23 different ingredients in 1,000 different ways, then tasting the results - versus us trying one strain at a time. Or... something. It doesn't really seem fair :icon_roll .

 

[KingJoe83]

Probably should have posted here first then bought but #sweetsue #dr ziggy # torturedsoul anyone lol

Will this work as sue said silk works best

 

[SweetSue]

Thanks. I had something like that, once. I should have laminated it, lol. On the back was a list of the cannabinoids that were identified (at the time) along with what benefits/effects we thought they provided. I'd like to think I gave it away. But I probably lost it. Or the ex-wife threw it away.

I do not like the thought of synthetic cannabinoids, for many reasons. But... At least when they make that crap up in a lab somewhere, it gives them the opportunity to mix them at a variety of ratios and examine the results. The difference in situations... It's like a cook somewhere mixing 23 different ingredients in 1,000 different ways, then tasting the results - versus us trying one strain at a time. Or... something. It doesn't really seem fair :icon_roll .

Synthetic isolates have their place, but it's severely limited with very narrow therapeutic windows and potential side effects. With meds you want the synergy if the mix of components. The science is irrefutable that whole plant medicines are far superior in healing effect and symptom relief to synthetic isolates. I can see the value for testing, but since they likely won't be doing human trials you're still not getting a true idea of what's going on in the human body.

 

[SweetSue]

Probably should have posted here first then bought but #sweetsue #dr ziggy # torturedsoul anyone lol

Will this work as sue said silk works best

This is what I use Joe. It comes in real handy. I bought it for dry sift hash, but mostly use it to strain oils and cover the tops of the jars in the fridge.

 

[KingJoe83]

This is what I use Joe. It comes in real handy. I bought it for dry sift hash, but mostly use it to strain oils and cover the tops of the jars in the fridge.

So I did good ? And sorry I make a lot of impulse buying . It's la sickness lol I gets carried away sometimes.

Thanks sue .

 

[Canyon]

Synthetic isolates have their place, but it's severely limited with very narrow therapeutic windows and potential side effects. With meds you want the synergy if the mix of components. The science is irrefutable that whole plant medicines are far superior in healing effect and symptom relief to synthetic isolates. I can see the value for testing, but since they likely won't be doing human trials you're still not getting a true idea of what's going on in the human body.

A lot of the terpenes found in cannabis are rather common and can be bought as food grade extracts. I also think most of the ones found in cannabis can be bought.

If you determine that a particular isolate in a strain is causing a desired effect. It is not much of a leap to add it as an isolate to an infusion or extract of another strain. Think, addition rather than isolation.

Warning concentrated amounts of a lot of compounds found in cannabis can kill 50% of mice in X minutes. It wound be so easy to add way too much.

I never know

 

[TorturedSoul]

Synthetic isolates have their place, but it's severely limited with very narrow therapeutic windows and potential side effects.

Granted. I just meant that they have the ease of mixing the various substances as they see fit. They can think up the recipe - ingredients, ratios - and simply start grabbing sample tubes. I don't know how to separate the many natural cannabinoids(/terpines) from each other. And I cannot think up a recipe and order a customized plant that has exactly that recipe.

OtOH, the process of testing strains is often an enjoyable one, and occasionally it's an unforgettable experience.

It's just so slow, lol. I mean... In a year, even a mad grower probably only... err... Okay, then :icon_roll . But most of us only grow a few (different) strains per year. But Rome wasn't built in a day, I guess.

Hey... How's that low and slow drying going? And new ready-to-test samples? How do they look/smell/feel/taste/feel?

 

[Randoobula]

I do not like the thought of synthetic cannabinoids, for many reasons. But... At least when they make that crap up in a lab somewhere, it gives them the opportunity to mix them at a variety of ratios and examine the results. The difference in situations... It's like a cook somewhere mixing 23 different ingredients in 1,000 different ways, then tasting the results - versus us trying one strain at a time. Or... something. It doesn't really seem fair :icon_roll .

I agree... don't like the idea of synthetics at all. Same with isolating compounds. But I have a bit different perspective on those "cooks somewhere". Lol

Until right now, reading your post, I hadn't consciously recognized the significance of what we find in trying to establish a protocol that works for different individuals. At first blush, it seems such a daunting task when looking at the myriad of different diseases and conditions and what strains and ratios and dosages and delivery methods work for each persons unique physiology, but focusing on the fact that the cannabis plant has incredibly broad potential, its us that has the advantage over the "cooks".

They are restricted big time because they address single diseases, symptoms, or smallish symptom sets. Even after they create or isolate a compound for a given symptom, that compound will only be effective for a given percentage of the population with the same condition. Then the drug goes to the doctors, many of which aren't familiar with the endocannabinoid system, and even if they are, the only adjustments they can make are in dosing. They don't have the ability to change strains, mix cannabis oils from different strains, not attempt different delivery methods from whatever form the drug comes to them.

We otoh, can do all of that. We are like the cooks except we aren't in a lab somewhere. We are working directly with the patients. It's ideal really. I mean it would be great if every body were the same in their reactions to cannabis, but of course they aren't. Can they help some people? Sure. But likely only do what they do... treat symptoms. The whole plant extracts can and often do treat the cause.

 

[SweetSue]

I agree... don't like the idea of synthetics at all. Same with isolating compounds. But I have a bit different perspective on those "cooks somewhere". Lol

Until right now, reading your post, I hadn't consciously recognized the significance of what we find in trying to establish a protocol that works for different individuals. At first blush, it seems such a daunting task when looking at the myriad of different diseases and conditions and what strains and ratios and dosages and delivery methods work for each persons unique physiology, but focusing on the fact that the cannabis plant has incredibly broad potential, its us that has the advantage over the "cooks".

They are restricted big time because they address single diseases, symptoms, or smallish symptom sets. Even after they create or isolate a compound for a given symptom, that compound will only be effective for a given percentage of the population with the same condition. Then the drug goes to the doctors, many of which aren't familiar with the endocannabinoid system, and even if they are, the only adjustments they can make are in dosing. They don't have the ability to change strains, mix cannabis oils from different strains, not attempt different delivery methods from whatever form the drug comes to them.

We otoh, can do all of that. We are like the cooks except we aren't in a lab somewhere. We are working directly with the patients. It's ideal really. I mean it would be great if every body were the same in their reactions to cannabis, but of course they aren't. Can they help some people? Sure. But likely only do what they do... treat symptoms. The whole plant extracts can and often do treat the cause.

So true Randy. I used to be intimidated about offering guidance, but then I realized the process is fundamentally the same with every patient: after gathering background and establishing treatment goals you determine the optimal strain or strains based on cannabinoid and terpene profiles and decide on patient-appropriate administration methods.

Then it's the simple matter of processing meds and starting dosing, which always starts sub-therapeutically and is titrated by the patient, listening thoughtfully to what the body is telling you. Find the optimal therapeutic dose and hang there until you have a good reason to move to a higher dose or fall back on a lower one. All the while not worrying about any deadly side effects. It's nice to work with such a safe plant, isn't it?

The components do all the heavy lifting. We hold hands and encourage hope, tweaking as we go. All we're really doing is offering enough relief for the ECS to do its job without the blockage of stress.

Until they get trials going like mad all the real experimentation is being done in the field, with human patients courageous enough to make a stand and take back their healing force. I wouldn't be anywhere else.

A thought about those trials everyone is screaming for: the chief purpose of such trials is to determine the safe dosing limits. This suggests that we don't really need to divert our attention and resources in this direction, don't you think? We already know cannabis is safe. Why are we bothering with this distraction?

If those types of investigations really worked we wouldn't have the opioid epidemic.

 

[TorturedSoul]

A thought about those trials everyone is screaming for: the chief purpose of such trials is to determine the safe dosing limits. This suggests that we don't really need to divert our attention and resources in this direction, don't you think?

I overdosed on cannabis once. It just about killed...

...the entire contents of my refrigerator.

Y'all have a great night (or morning, whichever applies). I'm off to go get relatively horizontal.

 

[DrZiggy]

a small salad spinner works great to remove most of the xs washwater