Donpaul.p's Latest 400 Watt HPS Grow

@miwa, i good time when to put veg plants into flower is when they are mature enough and show sex, putting them to flower sooner can give smaller yields but this cant be helped all the time, so usually they show sex around week 6 of veg so anything after their is good to go to flower room,
 
a female doesnt 'become' male. it pretends to be a male, it grows the right sex organs but can only fire female pollen as there is no male erm chromasome? i should really google my answer but am among friends so its off the cuff, lol ;)
a male can do the same thing afaik but is much rarer. the reasoning i guess from the plants perspective is that during a population crisis a species needs far more females to produce offspring. a single female can only produce so many offspring no matter how many males are availible, but a single male in a field of feminsed offspring of a hermie mother can multiply that growth rate exponentially.
 
so you are saying is ...this plant didn't change into a male..she is pretending to be a male by growing nuts instead of female flowers,,,but in the nuts there is no male pollen but female pollen...so anything she put pollen on will have feminized seeds..did i break that down ,,right/wrong...haven't cut her down yet...wanta experiment...
 
GiGaBaNE said:
i reccomend avoiding the green potion for now. im about to pop at least half a dozen of those babies, so when they are done you can grab a nice handful off me to sample, save the spot for one none of us are growing ;)

in my current collection over the next few months are....

il diavolo auto (couple weeks)
sweet tooth (4-5 weeks)
coming soon
1 fem-reg ketama (landrace sativa)
1 fem-reg pakistani valley (landrace indica)
6+ fem-reg green love potion (multi blend hybrid)
10x fem-aut white label super skunk
2x fem-reg THC Bomb
1x reg-aut big bad john
4x fem-aut il diavolo
and finally 20+ fem-reg critical sensi star.

man, until i listed it i didnt realise how backed up with stock i am.....need to grow faster!!
Click to expand...

GB, between you and DP, you should open your own seedbank! When you say fem-reg, is that the same as feminised or is that a regular you have in veg now that has shown as a female?
 
spot on miwa,

basically when a fem plant goes hermie its still a fem plant but its producing pollen, this pollen is fem pollen as no male is involved,

so the way i make fem seeds is to leave a female plant in flower for a few weeks longer than normal, then the plant goes into panic mode as it never got any male pollen and doesnt want to die knowing its not reproduced, so it grows its only pollen sacs, then it self pollenates and produces its own fem seeds,

how ever when i have forced a fem plant to hermie early in flower then used that pollen i found the seeds where female but they also went hermie at around the same age, but the female plants that are left in flower for to long to produce pollen produce true fem pollen and using this on another fem plant produces fem seeds,
the other option is that silver chemical, that stresses the fem plant and makes it go hermie so it produces fem pollen, same process and same results,

so a female plant that goes hermie is just a fem plant with fem pollen, thats what gives us fem seeds, but i like to leave my fem plants in flower to long and get pollen that way as im then sure its femenised seeds, ive not tried the chemical option yet

@dharma, its all good my friend,

so we know a female plant can go hermie, either due to stress such as light stress, nute stress or temp stress or some will go hermie with no stress due to bad genetics, if it goes hermie due to bad genetics then id not use the pollen as the seeds would more than likely be hermie as well, id only use the pollen from a plant that has reached full flower so i know the seeds wont have the hermie trait,

a female grows what look like male pollen sacs, some look like male flowers and some look like bananas, both of these on a female plant are producing fem pollen,

now it is possible to make a male go hermie, its not as easy as i have tried, you cant let them flower to long as they just die, it seems males are not programmed to reproduce, male plants are like male humans, they cant do 2 things at once, their no good at multi tasking, a female can flower and produce pollen, a male dont do this, it just produces pollen then dies, it dont have a safety featuer to ensure it reproduces,

if their are no females around then the male wont reproduce the pollen will be wasted, a female will stay in flower and keep growing until it gets pollen, if it dont get pollen then it will produce its own pollen so it reproduces and continues to keep its strain alive, males dont do this even if left to flower for to long, ive tried and they just die, it is possible to make a male go hermie but ive not managed to do it, but it produces a super male or so ive read, not sure what a super male is or what it does or how it improves things,

so a female will produce fem pollen to reproduce if left in flower long enough or if stressed using silver chemicals,
a male just produces pollen then dies, ive not managed to make a male go hermie yet, if i do then i need to find out what a super male is and how its suppose to improve things, maybe a super male produces pistils which it can then self polinate and maybe it produces some amazing plants, but until i can get a male to go hermie i just cant try this,
ive got a couple of tubs of pollen, i got some fem pollen and some kc45 auto male pollen, so if i ever do get a male to go hermie then ill use some fem pollen on it and some regular pollen on it and compare the results,

hopefully that answers your questions miwa, its how i managed to produce my own fem seeds, any fem plant left in flower for to long will produce its own pollen as long as its not got pollen from anywhere else then it will self polinate, im not sure if these seeds would turn out hermie as i dont self polinate my plants, i use the pollen on other fem plants and that gives me fem seeds,
 
DharmaBud said:
GB, between you and DP, you should open your own seedbank! When you say fem-reg, is that the same as feminised or is that a regular you have in veg now that has shown as a female?
Click to expand...

reg-reg a seed that is photo period and can be boy or girl
reg-fem a seed that is photoperiod but its mother and 'father' were both female (not necisarily a selfed plant)
aut-reg a seed that is on an internal timer regardless of lights and can be boy or girl
aut-fem a seed that is a female and will auto flower.

a seedbank is on the cards in the future :rofl:
 
yep spot on miwa,

a female plant grows nuts, these nuts contain fem pollen, use this pollen on another fem plant and it produces fem seeds, not sure if it works if it self polinates as ive not tried that,

i have tried pollen from a female i made go hermie early in flower but the seeds turned our hermie so they went in thebin, but a female plant that produces pollen late in flower or using the silver chem option should produce fem seeds with no hermie traits,

its how the breeders make fem seeds, they use the silver colliodol or what ever its called, they turn a fem plant hermie using that then use that pollen on another female plant and it produces femenised seeds, but the female pollen sacs dont contain as much pollen as the male pollen sacs, also if your going to mess around with pollen make sure you move the plant your putting pollen away from any wind and other plants, then put pollen on the buds you want seeds from using a fine brush or que tip, then leave the plant where it is for a few hours, then spray it down with water to kill any pollen that is on the plant, this will stop if getting in the air and getting on other plants,
within a few hours to 24 hours you will notice the pistils die and shrivel up, a few days later the calyx will start to swell, a few weeks later the seeds will be splitting the calyx open, then when you harvest you get a load of fem seeds, a great option for a sog grow, something ive been contemplating for a while,

@dharma, if only it was that easy, i got thousands of seeds of my own crosses but several ive not had chance to grow out, but when i do grow them out ill work with the best pheno types and cross them with each other to make a more stable strain, most strains you buy have anything up to 4 or 5 different pheno types, so buy 10 seeds and would could end up with 4 or 5 different looking,smelling and or tasting plants,
its not easy making a strain stable, the first cross you make is the most stable, once you start picking out pheno types and back crossing thats when you run into problems, its just having the time to grow them out and clone the best fem and collect pollen from the best male.

im trying to find out if making fem seeds from say the best females of a batch of seeds will produce stable seeds.
so say i grew out the white widow cross skunk and found a really nice pheno type, if i had 2 females with that exact pheno type then i collected pollen from the one fem and put it on the other fem, would this then produce stable fem plants of that same pheno type or would i still end up with many pheno types, i know when you cross male and female you can end up with all the pheno types from the male, or all the pheno types from the fem or a mixture of the 2, so perfecting a strain is a slow process, i got plenty of seeds to last me a life time, but i like to try new strains so usualy place an order every few weeks just to get more in stock.
 
miwa said:
so you are saying is ...this plant didn't change into a male..she is pretending to be a male by growing nuts instead of female flowers,,,but in the nuts there is no male pollen but female pollen...so anything she put pollen on will have feminized seeds..did i break that down ,,right/wrong...haven't cut her down yet...wanta experiment...
Click to expand...

I believe the female pollen sacks look different than male pollen sacks. I could be wrong. I only have one example:
P10001451.JPG


These are bananas late in flower that are suppose to have only female pollen. I have never let it go long enough to get seeds.
 
if i had the money and the room id go with a seed bank but theirs lots around so getting breeders to let you stock seeds would be to hard with all the seed banks around, but with prices like herbies their is no point in trying to compete, the best option would be to produce your own strains, let others try these strains and see what they think, then find a way of getting them tested so they can be released in a seed bank.

its a slow process but i will make a dank auto that produces well ever time, i will pruduce a nice purple strain and i will produce a nice cheese strain and cheese auto strain, crossing plants is the easy part, choosing pheno types and crossing these then back crossing is the hard part,

but look how different the strains look we buy, most dont look like the breeders pics, so once your name is out their you can pretty much bring out what you like, as long as it produces well, produces good thc levels or cbd levels, what i really hate is not been able to test the products i produce, id love to be able to send buds to a lab to be tested, id like to work with cbd strains but without having a place to test them its pretty pointless as you wouldnt know if you improving or getting worse,

so producing a dank strain that puts me on my arse is about my only option, then letting others sample them at some point will give me some idea of how well or how poor im actually doing, i have no problems with throwing seeds away if they produce poor results, i wont keep poor genetics, but so far my crosses have produced great results but their are some crosses i have not even had chance to grow out yet,

i could do with a nice big grow space where i can work on my strains and perfect the strains i want to produce, low numbers of plants means its a slow process
 
@scarfinger, yep those are fem bananas, they contain fem pollen, but at the nodes the plant will produce pollen sacs that look like regular male pollen sacs, so when i see them bananas i start checking my plant daily and i then find them growing under leaves and at nodes, they dont produce much pollen but its enough to self polinate, im not sure on how well the self polinated seeds do but ive harvested plants that have had 1 or 2 seeds in the whole plant and they turned out fem so i guess their fem seeds the same,

but i prefer to use the pollen on one of the best females ive got or a female of the same strain,

say i buy a few seeds of the same strain, then ill grow these out over a couple of grows, then ill pick the best female of each grow and clone it until ive got the best pheno type and best growing female, then ill either use fem pollen from a plant with the same pheno type of the same strain or ill use the fem pollen on another top female that i have kept in clone only until ive got something to cross it with,

when i cross a male and female i dont just use any female or any male, i grow and clone the best female ive got, then ill keep it in clone only form until i grow a male that i think is the best of the best, like the kc45 auto male i got in flower now, i killed another 3 males as they was slow growing and started flowering early, this auto male i got growing now grew fast and didnt start flowering until it was over 1ft tall, so to me thats a good male and thats why im collecting pollen, so ill have a load of auto pollen from a fast growing and an auto with a decent veg time, then ill use that pollen on a kc45 female and ill use it on another auto that produces well or produces nice buds, that gives me either more kc45 autos with a better pheno type or it gives me a new auto strain to work with,

if i cross it with a new auto then i get a new auto strain thats when i start picking the best pheno types from that batch of seeds, but with autos you cant keep it alive in clone form, you need to plant a few seeds and pick the best male and female and cross them, or grow them out and collect the pollen from the best male then save it until you get the best female which with an auto is usually a fast growing auto that gets pretty big before starting to flower, if they dont do this then its not good enough for me to be working with,

i want a big hitting auto that yields well, i want a nice purple strain as well,

the gdp male cross purple cheese auto i did hopefuly will produce some very nice plants, im hoping the gdp male i chose will give me a good strain as i chose the best male from the gdp seeds i had and got plenty of pollen from it, i crossed it with an auto some 1/4 of the seeds to 1/5th of the seeds will turn out auto, hopefully from all the seeds ill have at least 1 female gdp x purple cheese auto and 1 male auto, that will allow me to cross them with each other to produce a gdp cheese auto, most of the seeds wont be auto so again ill pick the best male and female from all the seeds and cross them, that will then give me a gdp cheese regular strain, then if i want to make it fem once ive crossed the best pheno types then ill let a fem flower for a few weeks to long and collect pollen and put it on the fem of the same pheno type to produce femenised gdp cheese seeds,
 
well..you know what..you know i like to experiment..gonna let these 3 stay in the ground..they are all PHs...if the third one grows nuts..i'll pull two of them and put a couple of my pots back out there...i'll still have a good harvest for this year plus i'll have some seeds...for more experiments :)...and i'm still going to keep one of the girls in flower past due to get some seeds...:thumb:
 
donpaul.p said:
the best option would be to produce your own strains, let others try these strains and see what they think, then find a way of getting them tested so they can be released in a seed bank.

its a slow process but i will make a dank auto that produces well ever time, i will pruduce a nice purple strain and i will produce a nice cheese strain and cheese auto strain, crossing plants is the easy part, choosing pheno types and crossing these then back crossing is the hard part,
Click to expand...

Don, It runs between $60 - $100 per sample test around here. There are a few labs that do it in the region because we I'm in a medical state. Just figured I'd let you know on that one.

:Namaste:
 
go for it my friend, if you got enough plants then it wont hurt, just remember out doors the pollen will get blown about so you might not end up with much seeds or you might end up with loads of seeds,

but yep a plant left in flower to long will produce its own pollen, as the female plant has no male genes then this means the pollen is female also, so self pollinated the seeds should be fem all though i have not fully tested this to much, how ever the fem pollen put on another plant will produce femenised seeds,

now if i plant has gone hermie on its own then it is more than likely going to produce plants that go hermie, but if the plant went hermie due to stress then it should produce just fem seeds, the plant i stressed by light stress went hermie early in flower and the plant i polinated produced seeds but i grew 3 and all was fem but all went hermie early in flower with no stress, so a plant that goes hermie in middle to late flower should produce seeds that are not hermie.

i think as long as its well into flower then you should be ok with the pollen, you can buy silver colidoil or what ever its called and use that but the plant you spray it on is then poinsenous and cant be smoked,eaten or used for hash, so using that chemical leaves that plant only good for pollen and nothing else,

using the late flowering option you can still harvest the plant seed free and use the pollen on another plant, or you can leave it in flower and it will produce its own seeds not long after the female pollen sacs have opened,

you must of missed this section in my journal, i disccussed this a good while back as a few growers was asking how i produced fem seeds, ive not got many fem seeds left because its the ak47 x uk cheese strain and its a really nice strain so grow it quite often,

so all been well it will work out ok for you as well, the self polinated plants should produce fem seeds but its not a method i have used but i cant see why they wouldnt be as their is no male pollen involved, but any plant the pollen gets on with produce fem seeds, just keep checking the plants and you will see the pollen sacs a couple of weeks after it should of been harvested, then its up to you what you do with the pollen,
 
ok cool thanks runewulf, thats something worth knowing, :)


the only thing im unsure of is if autos go hermie, as their not photo plants then im not sure if they hermie the same, this time round ill leave an auto in flower a few weeks longer and see if it produces pollen, i wont let it self seed as its a strain ive not grown before but if it does produce fem pollen then that will give me something to work with, it just depends who well these autos grow that ive just bought,

if autos dont hermie due to been left in flower then my only option would be to buy some of that silver chemical and give that a try, but im happy with regular seeds as it gives me chance to back cross and select certain pheno types like rapid growth and a plant that produces well.

i know a strain that grows well in the US might not grow well where i am, so its difficult to say whats a good strain and what isnt as it depends on climate, but i think if i worked with the same strain long enough then it would climatise to the to climate im in,

i think autos will play a big part in the future of growing but to many autos produce small amounts so at the minute its not really the best option if you want a big yield but as more of us buy them and try them im sure their will be many new autos come out that produce 4 or 5oz as standard, i know the big bang auto is suppose to hit 4oz per plant, im sure a few growers have told me this, i think jandre420 was one of them that grew several big bang autos and get that yield with each auto.
 
ok, hitting the search engine now
 
got it ive bookmarked it as its 4am and its a lot to read,

did you come across any thing in paticular or did you just find it a good read, ive had a quick flick

interesting, it says that if the pheno type on one plant is the same as the pheno type on another plant then that produces stable results, so if i grew out 10 seeds and picked the best male and female with the same pheno type then that should produce pretty stable seeds,

was their a section that you was referring to or the whole lot, ive just scrolled down a few pages but ill have a good read when i get up, nice find miwa, have some reps my friend
 

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