Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Well I see Canyon has been busy in my absence! LOL. I have a lot of reading to do apparently. Anyway, I got back on.
Hello my friends.
Hello my friends.
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction
Derbybud
Well-Known Member
Glad to see ya back kick n
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir! I do have some updates on encapsulation to share. Waiting on the new tcheck to do any extraction research. I will tell ya what I've been up to over the weekend. Did anyone make any progress on a mixing blade for me? Or, is it easier to put a Formula 1 car on the track??? lol
I have been thinking about mixing blades. What if you wrapped a wire around a shaft a turn or two and braze it to the shaft then cut each end some length away from shaft? You may need to do some experimenting with wire size and the number of barbs.
I never know
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir! I do have some updates on encapsulation to share. Waiting on the new tcheck to do any extraction research. I will tell ya what I've been up to over the weekend. Did anyone make any progress on a mixing blade for me? Or, is it easier to put a Formula 1 car on the track??? lol
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
Hello Grailers. Im wondering if anyone is aware of any information available regarding the quality of trichomes on different parts of a plant?
I keep thinking that people are not extracting significant volumes of quality medicine by ignoring sugar leaves and bottom buds.
I keep wondering too about the harvest. I dont know of any plant / tree that produces fruit where it is all ripe at the same time. It seems in my strange brain that harvesting in layers would boost production. Take the top 25 - 30% where the biggest colas should be, drop the light and let that layer get better light for x days. Then repeat.
Finally what would remain is a plant with lots of bottom branches and a few leaves that can be reveged. Its already fimed/topped/supercropped. It will grow very bushy.
I keep thinking that people are not extracting significant volumes of quality medicine by ignoring sugar leaves and bottom buds.
I keep wondering too about the harvest. I dont know of any plant / tree that produces fruit where it is all ripe at the same time. It seems in my strange brain that harvesting in layers would boost production. Take the top 25 - 30% where the biggest colas should be, drop the light and let that layer get better light for x days. Then repeat.
Finally what would remain is a plant with lots of bottom branches and a few leaves that can be reveged. Its already fimed/topped/supercropped. It will grow very bushy.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Maybe....I did consider filling in the last 1/4'' of a paper clip (with something) to make it solid like a thin blade, maybe ovaling it out a bit to make a wider blade & affix that to some shaft.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
I like your thinking. Im not a grower but it sounds logical. I always thought you just cut the milky ones each day until they were all about the same maturity. So harvest a plant over a 10 day period?????? Fun to think about but I bet someone here has played around with that concept.
As for trim, etc, My understanding is that the tricombs are the same potency, just way less of them. I think I asked for clarification before but did not get an answer. Help
As for trim, etc, My understanding is that the tricombs are the same potency, just way less of them. I think I asked for clarification before but did not get an answer. Help
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
About extraction:
I found a pollen press with a tinture screen attachment for the bottom. (this setup would be for small runs but if it works, you could make a bigger one). We leave 15-20% behind in olive oil extraction due to the lack of aggressiveness as a solvent. So what if we 1. Heated that device in an oven to say 220F packed full of the dreggs. 2.Then discard the top that is threaded and put the T handle under an Arbor press with a setup to catch the runoff. 3. Put about 500 lbs pressure on it to squeeze the juice out the bottom. 3. Maybe you will get the rosen out at the same time. Not 100% efficient for sure but it seems like it would maximize the thc extraction as far as oil extraction goes. Thoughts????
I found a pollen press with a tinture screen attachment for the bottom. (this setup would be for small runs but if it works, you could make a bigger one). We leave 15-20% behind in olive oil extraction due to the lack of aggressiveness as a solvent. So what if we 1. Heated that device in an oven to say 220F packed full of the dreggs. 2.Then discard the top that is threaded and put the T handle under an Arbor press with a setup to catch the runoff. 3. Put about 500 lbs pressure on it to squeeze the juice out the bottom. 3. Maybe you will get the rosen out at the same time. Not 100% efficient for sure but it seems like it would maximize the thc extraction as far as oil extraction goes. Thoughts????
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Also Oldbear,
If you want to use trim for evoo extraction, I suggest doing a dry ice hash style trichome strip rather than bathe all that chlorophyl in the oil.
If you want to use trim for evoo extraction, I suggest doing a dry ice hash style trichome strip rather than bathe all that chlorophyl in the oil.
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
Good to have you back.
There's an experiment underway in sweetSue's cupboard related to extractions from flower tops (leaves and whole buds) without grinding anything. Phase one is a 30 day effort in room temp olive oil to determine how much of cannabinoids get infused without heat.
Results should be soon.
There's an experiment underway in sweetSue's cupboard related to extractions from flower tops (leaves and whole buds) without grinding anything. Phase one is a 30 day effort in room temp olive oil to determine how much of cannabinoids get infused without heat.
Results should be soon.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
Several months ago, I was fortunate in catching an online lecture by Ethan Russo (formerly of GW Pharmaceuticals). His topics were widely varied and he did briefly touch on that subject. His research found that cannabinods varied greatly between top, mid and lower buds. Each trichome contains varied molecules and that internal mixture of cannabinods are quite different at the top than they are at the bottom. In other words, while the top trichomes contain a wide variety of different cannabinods, they may be rich in thca or delta9 thca while the lower trichomes may have a much higher ratio of cbg, etc.
I'm presently helping a friend with his first grow, one blue dream plant, and we're considering doing a staged harvest. He's adamant about a thorough flush, however, and I'm a little concerned how the lower part of the plant will recover from just straight water for several days.
You could always have him read this:
A critical look at preharvest flushing
A critical look at preharvest flushing
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
"Several months ago, I was fortunate in catching an online lecture by Ethan Russo (formerly of GW Pharmaceuticals). His topics were widely varied and he did briefly touch on that subject. His research found that cannabinods varied greatly between top, mid and lower buds. Each trichome contains varied molecules and that internal mixture of cannabinods are quite different at the top than they are at the bottom."
Finally! I have never been able to find any data on that at all. Hence the theory "same quality, just less of them". I would like to hear more about that. That would make all the difference in the world in how you use it.
Finally! I have never been able to find any data on that at all. Hence the theory "same quality, just less of them". I would like to hear more about that. That would make all the difference in the world in how you use it.
Yesterday I did a run with fresh fan leaves. The short version is, I had about 7psi after it cooled down. The moisture stayed with the leaves.
I am leaving for an out of town shopping trip and lunch in a few minutes. The plan is to be back around dark. I will post more then.
Best
I am leaving for an out of town shopping trip and lunch in a few minutes. The plan is to be back around dark. I will post more then.
Best
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
ENCAPSULATION:
Until recently, I only THOUGHT I was encapsulating. I clearly was not. The Dremel tool did it. When encapsulation occurs, the olive oil visibly changes in appearance. It becomes thicker...kind of...I can't think of the perfect descriptor at the moment. But think more voluminous. It's like it has more body.
Anyway, with my crappy little screwdriver blade stuck into the beaker, in about 3 minutes it's done. Also, there's no reason to stir it between uses. It has become one. It was a real eye opener. Just wanted to pass that along.
Until recently, I only THOUGHT I was encapsulating. I clearly was not. The Dremel tool did it. When encapsulation occurs, the olive oil visibly changes in appearance. It becomes thicker...kind of...I can't think of the perfect descriptor at the moment. But think more voluminous. It's like it has more body.
Anyway, with my crappy little screwdriver blade stuck into the beaker, in about 3 minutes it's done. Also, there's no reason to stir it between uses. It has become one. It was a real eye opener. Just wanted to pass that along.
Happy New Year to all.
I found an error in my gauge reading expertise. In the block of marks that indicate 0-10, count it down from 10. The last mark before 0 is 4. There is two pounds of pressure required to move the needle off of the stop. That puts the first run's final pressure around 5.5 rather than 3.5psi.
Run 2
I took 52.5 grams of fresh fan leaves and bottom trim and stuffed it into a spice jar and capped it with a screen. I put a few hex nuts in the cylinder and placed the jar in inverted. Then, I added more nuts and sealed it up.
The new oil in oil double boiler setup worked rather well.
Water boils around 200f here. The oil and the pitcher weigh about the same as the chamber, so there is some lag time with the temperatures.
By the time the oil in the pitcher reached 195 the pressure was 4psi. Six minutes later the oil was 201 and the pressure was 6. 207 took it to 8. Then 221 only took it to 9.
I decided to extend the time and temperature beyond what I thought was necessary to see what readings I would get. The temperature peaked at 256 about an hour and a half after I started getting a pressure reading. The pleasure peaked about 20 minutes later at 33psi. I left it to cool in the oil bath until the temperature was 117 and the pressure was 14. Then I moved it to a small bucket of water to finish cooling. At around 68f the pressure was around 7.
This one shows the first mark above 0 being 4 that I was talking about.
When I opened the chamber the material was wet, smelled sour and tasted like strong bitter greens. It was close to cooked. There was none of the funky ABV smell. The wall and bottom of the chamber appeared dry.
When I weighed it, it had lost 2.8g. I do not know how much of that was from handling. Dry It weighed 15.7.
I have another picture of it dry that I forgot to upload.....tomorrow.
I need to recheck the volume with the jar and run some numbers. However, I am thinking that decarb starts happening in earnest at lower temperatures and faster than I thought.
I want to do two more leaf runs before I start wasting buds, one with fresh and one with dried leaves. I will hold the temperature around 200 until the pressure stabilizes. Then check it when cool.
That is what I have been doing.
I never know.
I found an error in my gauge reading expertise. In the block of marks that indicate 0-10, count it down from 10. The last mark before 0 is 4. There is two pounds of pressure required to move the needle off of the stop. That puts the first run's final pressure around 5.5 rather than 3.5psi.
Run 2
I took 52.5 grams of fresh fan leaves and bottom trim and stuffed it into a spice jar and capped it with a screen. I put a few hex nuts in the cylinder and placed the jar in inverted. Then, I added more nuts and sealed it up.
The new oil in oil double boiler setup worked rather well.
Water boils around 200f here. The oil and the pitcher weigh about the same as the chamber, so there is some lag time with the temperatures.
By the time the oil in the pitcher reached 195 the pressure was 4psi. Six minutes later the oil was 201 and the pressure was 6. 207 took it to 8. Then 221 only took it to 9.
I decided to extend the time and temperature beyond what I thought was necessary to see what readings I would get. The temperature peaked at 256 about an hour and a half after I started getting a pressure reading. The pleasure peaked about 20 minutes later at 33psi. I left it to cool in the oil bath until the temperature was 117 and the pressure was 14. Then I moved it to a small bucket of water to finish cooling. At around 68f the pressure was around 7.
This one shows the first mark above 0 being 4 that I was talking about.
When I opened the chamber the material was wet, smelled sour and tasted like strong bitter greens. It was close to cooked. There was none of the funky ABV smell. The wall and bottom of the chamber appeared dry.
When I weighed it, it had lost 2.8g. I do not know how much of that was from handling. Dry It weighed 15.7.
I have another picture of it dry that I forgot to upload.....tomorrow.
I need to recheck the volume with the jar and run some numbers. However, I am thinking that decarb starts happening in earnest at lower temperatures and faster than I thought.
I want to do two more leaf runs before I start wasting buds, one with fresh and one with dried leaves. I will hold the temperature around 200 until the pressure stabilizes. Then check it when cool.
That is what I have been doing.
I never know.
- Thread starter
- #959
When I read that I was recalling that when I do an oil bath check of the pan-in-pan oils made in the pressure cooker, decarb usually starts around 180 degrees or so, and it's always more vigorious than I was expecting.
I haven't been around here enough to follow what's going on. One of these days I'll get caught up. Canyon, it looks like you're having fun.
Keep it up. All the best answers come when you're playing.
Happy New Year my friend.
Happy New Year to all my friends.
What an interesting year it turned out to be, eh? Just imagine the excitement ahead!
I haven't been around here enough to follow what's going on. One of these days I'll get caught up. Canyon, it looks like you're having fun.
Keep it up. All the best answers come when you're playing. Happy New Year my friend.
Happy New Year to all my friends.
What an interesting year it turned out to be, eh? Just imagine the excitement ahead!Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
"That is what I have been doing." Holy Crap Canyon!