Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
I have a silicon spatula that is shaped perfecly. But it almost falls out without effort with the help of PAM. I just shoot 1 sec & lightly wipe out with paper towel before I use it.
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction
I have a silicon spatula that is shaped perfecly. But it almost falls out without effort with the help of PAM. I just shoot 1 sec & lightly wipe out with paper towel before I use it.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
This I think would be great and feasable in someones's hands besides me. The edges can be notch cuts or even just burrs. The optional oblong hole in center would be a huge plus. If it could be drilled/cut in on a slant, even better. Rough is on our side here...at least for the extraction part & maybe the encapsulating also.
The wider the blade, the more balance issues. I tried to cut a flat blade small, CHEAP screwdriver down to shorten but even the crappy tool was too hard for a dull hacksaw, which is all I had. ..Well I might be able to cut it with the Dremel...in an hour lol.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Next best thing is to cut down a "checkout line quality small screwdriver to 2-3'' for shaft. That alone does pretty well. But if you could cut out part of the center you would be cooking with gas. The downside is the really small blade. Hell, there may be the perfect thing on the shelf at Home Depot....but not on the Dremel display. The 1/8'' shaft diameter is making this difficult. Anyway, go for it!
Derbybud
Well-Known Member
Looks like allot of surface area for the 1/8 shaft. Could braise a piece of stock to the shaft the wire edm the shape with relief as to make a cutting edge on both the outside and elongated hole in the middle. My worries are the surface area would either slow the dremel speed down to where it would not help to mix properly or just fail be bending the shaft
This I think would be great and feasable in someones's hands besides me. The edges can be notch cuts or even just burrs. The optional oblong hole in center would be a huge plus. If it could be drilled/cut in on a slant, even better. Rough is on our side here...at least for the extraction part & maybe the encapsulating also.
The wider the blade, the more balance issues. I tried to cut a flat blade small, CHEAP screwdriver down to shorten but even the crappy tool was too hard for a dull hacksaw, which is all I had. ..Well I might be able to cut it with the Dremel...in an hour lol.
KeithVi
Well-Known Member
What is the ideal length of the 1/8 inch shaft?
This I think would be great and feasable in someones's hands besides me. The edges can be notch cuts or even just burrs. The optional oblong hole in center would be a huge plus. If it could be drilled/cut in on a slant, even better. Rough is on our side here...at least for the extraction part & maybe the encapsulating also.
The wider the blade, the more balance issues. I tried to cut a flat blade small, CHEAP screwdriver down to shorten but even the crappy tool was too hard for a dull hacksaw, which is all I had. ..Well I might be able to cut it with the Dremel...in an hour lol.
That is a very small shaft to have that much mass at the end spinning at 10000 or more RPM.
Even if you were to have a very balanced design, once you put it into your herb I am afraid it's going to go sideways in the most catastrophic manner.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Derby & Keith;
Yes guys, your concerns are spot on. Ideally, a 3'' shaft for easier working. But under 2'' is more stable by far. And yes, I think the width & height may be a strain on the Dremel. How about 1/2'' x 1/2'' for blade? I'm pretty sure we can get away with that. I would just nix the longer idea.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Yeah guys, total length of 2'' may be our limit. I think that will do great. Im getting good encapsulation with a much narrower blade. But I can tell it needs a bit more.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
I didn't get the perspective of the angled slot but I think you know what Im aiming at. I don't know if there's a way to balance the blade to true it up in your world or not. But, if that ability is there, those notches in the side would be an easy way to make adjustments in weight distribution. But, that slot angled may cause a problem in itself but I hope not. I'm pretty sure that will at least double the effectiveness plus maybe reduse the strain on the blade.
I love open source work. The future is here. lol
I love open source work. The future is here. lol
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
Ive missed a post or two I'm sure.
What is the theory behind needing this chopper? Is your thinking that finely ground material results in better extraction percentages?
What is the theory behind needing this chopper? Is your thinking that finely ground material results in better extraction percentages?
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Not more finely ground. I would actually like to avoid that for filtering reasons. The best methods short of a lab leave 15% behind. Yeah, there are ways to recoup, but ideally you want it all at once. Cannabinoids, et al, are resistant to extractions. Period. So the idea of the blade is to shred and pulverize the material (macerate, I believe) to force the goodies out. Being slammed around at 20,000rpm will tend to do that. Same with the other technique, using ultrasonic bath. 30,000 micro explosions per second. Anyway, that was my thinking. My thinking was based on the food industry techniques. Didn't look like a stretch from sucking nutrients out of vegetables and encapsulating vitamin C into water to our friend the cannabis plant.
Let me start by saying that I had not intended to let so much time go by.
I had a nice list of terpene properties going in a chart and managed to lose it. (Don't ask.) I thought I could rebuild it a lot faster than it is going.
I have also been binge watching YouTube videos of organic chemistry classes for about a week now. I am approaching something near high school chemistry knowledge now, maybe a weak D grade.
Now that I have at least some information on about 50 terpenes, I am actually beginning to understand some of what's going on. The empirical formulas, molecular weight and boiling points are showing some patterns.
It is going to take me a few days to get a new chart up with some terpene retention percentages. There will also be a few new columns. It's the best I can do.
The pressure cooker terpene retention percentages range from 13% to 131%. The pressure cooker sample I had was darker than the Nova decarb samples we ran. Just from memory my best guess would be that about half the time would make the pressure cooker sample about the same shade as the nova. I have enough of the original sample to get two or three samples at shorter times and test for decarboxolation. Then, I could have a terpene test run on the best sample.
I never know
I had a nice list of terpene properties going in a chart and managed to lose it. (Don't ask.) I thought I could rebuild it a lot faster than it is going.
I have also been binge watching YouTube videos of organic chemistry classes for about a week now. I am approaching something near high school chemistry knowledge now, maybe a weak D grade.
Now that I have at least some information on about 50 terpenes, I am actually beginning to understand some of what's going on. The empirical formulas, molecular weight and boiling points are showing some patterns.
It is going to take me a few days to get a new chart up with some terpene retention percentages. There will also be a few new columns. It's the best I can do.
The pressure cooker terpene retention percentages range from 13% to 131%. The pressure cooker sample I had was darker than the Nova decarb samples we ran. Just from memory my best guess would be that about half the time would make the pressure cooker sample about the same shade as the nova. I have enough of the original sample to get two or three samples at shorter times and test for decarboxolation. Then, I could have a terpene test run on the best sample.
I never know
Ms Stank
Well-Known Member
I'm a bit late to the party but glad to be here! I need more hours in the day to do all the catching up I need to do lol
Derbybud
Well-Known Member
Welcome ladies
Thanks,
Welcome to the thread and 420. Do you have any experience working with extracts or infusions?
I know about trying to keep up. I am only on page 4 of SweetSue's 3.0 thread. It has 54 pages.
Van has been around longer than I have. I have read a lot of his posts. It is good to see you joining in the conversations.
I don't suppose you have a degree in organic chemistry.
I never know
Ms Stank
Well-Known Member
I've taken several chemistry courses, including organic (which was my least favorite....but moreso because the professor was awful). It's been a while since I tapped in to that area of my brain, so it's a bit fuzzy. I hope to be caught up and knowledgeable enough to contribute to this community, though! I just need more time in the day lol
[FONT=&]The charts below are sorted according to empirical formulas. They give an idea of how few there are and the multiple ways they can be assembled.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The larger sort and filterable chart that I have been posting still needs to have some of the terpene tests added from older tests to get a better grasp of what is retained, what is lost and what is changing. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]I should have this round of entries finished today or tomorrow.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I never know
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[FONT=&]This is from Libre Texts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]A search for “Chem Libre Texts Reference Organic Chemistry Glossary Terpenes” will have it on top. It is an open book project of Sonoma State U. There are accompanying images. [/FONT]
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“Terpenes[/FONT]
Last updated
Apr 29, 2017
Terpenes and terpenoids are two classes of naturally occurring compounds that are formally derived from isoprene.
For identification purposes, the five carbon atoms in isoprene are numbered as follows.
Carbon 1 is called the head of the molecule; carbon 4 is called the tail. Since the isoprene molecule has five carbon atoms, the number of carbon atoms in the molecule of a terpene/terpenoid is a multiple of five.
The difference between terpenes and terpenoids[FONT=&] is that terpenes are hydrocarbons, whereas terpenoids contain oxygen. Organic chemists increasingly use the words terpene and terpenoid interchangeably. When plant matter (leaves, roots, flowers, etc.) is subjected to steam distillation, an oily liquid called essential oil is obtained. An essential oil is a mixture of terpenes and/or terpenoids. eg:……”
[/FONT]
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[FONT=&]
The formulas of terpenes will have multiples of 5 carbons and 8 hydrogen, like C15H24.[/FONT] [FONT=&]
Terpenoids tend to have carbon multiples of 5 with hydrogen multiples of 8 plus 2 or 4, (C5H8*N)+2H+O, [FONT=&](C5H8*N)+4H+O[/FONT] . C10H18O is the most prominent.
[/FONT] [FONT=&]These are the 47 terpene and terpenoids that I am collecting information on.
A little. I'm still getting up to speed with everything you have done here- it's a lot to digest! I'll jump on in once I've read everything... Thanks again to all who are contributing to this- it's so helpful!
Missing Person Update
I got an email from Kicknitup1 a while ago saying that he thought he had been banned. He could not log in. I checked and he was showing up as a member. When he did not start posting again I thought I should contact an administrator. I did and Mr. Teddy Edwards got back to me in minutes.
It turns out the server he is using has been flagged as one that has spam bots and anything cumming from it is not accepted by 420's server. They are working with him to get him back on the site.
Thanks 420 for the good news. I was having trouble imagining him intentionally doing something that would get him banned.
I never know
I got an email from Kicknitup1 a while ago saying that he thought he had been banned. He could not log in. I checked and he was showing up as a member. When he did not start posting again I thought I should contact an administrator. I did and Mr. Teddy Edwards got back to me in minutes.
It turns out the server he is using has been flagged as one that has spam bots and anything cumming from it is not accepted by 420's server. They are working with him to get him back on the site.
Thanks 420 for the good news. I was having trouble imagining him intentionally doing something that would get him banned.
I never know