Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

KeithVi said:
I would also like to see a sketch. Hobby machinist here and I would give it a shot but I'm having a difficult time picturing your description.
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Understood. I will show you ideal, pretty damn good, and get buy. Actually, there will be experimentation to refine but we can get going in the right direction. Finding something pre-made that can be adapted is always first choice but I haven't had much luck.
 
h-blade.jpg


This would be excellent. But a less elaborate one would be fine. You just need the directional blades.
The simplest I can think of that would be good: Imagine a flat blade screwdriver with a possibly not so neat angled slot drilled thru the flat part of the blade. You want mtl to be grabbed up & forced thru the hole as well as the blade stir action.

This rotary blade of course is a totally different...and more challenging build.
 
At 1:32 it looks like it's started to separate again though!
 
Canyon said:
We are on to something.

This batch is about 75% total terpenes retained and I am reasonably sure it was cooked too long.

There are some values that are larger than the original sample. From what I have read, some of the terpenes are formed from other terpenes. It makes sense, and would explain some of the uneven retention. I just never thought about it.

cbga >> thca >> thc >> cbn, why would terpenes be any different?


This is the not decarbed.
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Pressure Cooker
SteepHill-Nightmare_Cookies-terpenes.jpg
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Thanx, canyon, for your continued effort in this learning process. At first glance the comparison of total terpene content seems encouraging but unfortunately it's a bit misleading. They're are individual elements that show up in the second test that aren't accounted for in the first and vice versa which would render the comparison a little lacking in reliability.

Monoterpenes are molecularly the lightest terpenes and therefore the most volatile. A closer analysis of these show that the major monoterpenes didn't fair very well.

Linalool lost 43%
Myrcene lost a whopping 87%
A-pinene and b-pinene lost 86%
Limonene lost 80%

Caryophyllene is a bit of an anomaly that mystifies me. It's actually a sesquiterpene, much heavier and less susceptible to evaporation but this doesn't support an increased presence after decarboxylation. The other minor terpenes showing increases could feasibly be explained by the fact that quantities in the 1/1000th of a % increment range could have such small amounts that comparative samples may show some inconsistency, but even this thesis is a bit of a stretch.

The caryophyllene has such a major presence, however, even this wouldn't be applicable. You're right in that terpenes do undergo changes under certain conditions but I'm not sure of the probability of one terpene taking on the molecular structure of another unique terpene. Through oxidation, either natural or with the introduction of heat, the terpenes can take on additional oxygen atoms. In other words, myrcene can morph into terpenoids such as myrcene oxide1 or myrcene oxide 2 but would still have the basic characteristics of myrcene. They can also go through a synthesis by removing or translocating a methyl group by a couple of chemical methods but again these isomers retain the characteristics of the parent terpene.

Just another of life's many mysteries, I guess. Again, I'm never to old to learn and I'm here in hopes of gaining knowledge. If you've found info supporting the contrary I'm hungry!
 
InTheShed said:
At 1:32 it looks like it's started to separate again though!
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Maybe, but if it defiantly will get you there. In the demo I think he was just showing how it works. Another few seconds could have been in order.

Canyon
It has tiny teeth in the end as well as a short channel it sucks it through. This one is even larger than the ones I looked at. It will shred any plant matter it comes in contact with. It overcomes the "lack of aggressiveness of oil as a solvent" by violently forcing it all together at a fierce rate.

The sonic is like firing 30,000 tiny bbs at the material every second. Probably not the shreding but certainly pulverizes it like tenderizing meat.
Both will encapsulate when the time comes. BTW Sweet Sue, I got great encapsulation with 2 mins with dremel using a round shaft with the last 1/4 inch flattened. The thing with the sonic is the bath size. My min fill is over 1 quart. I fill it with water & a dash of Dawn and suspend a beaker in it with the oil & mtl. I suspect that cuts the power by 50-70%. If it weren't for that....
 
As for mixing blades, I think if we take our cues from the industrial mixing industry we will be fine. It can be simplified and still do a fine job for our purposes. I guess the thing turns clockwise- that may matter in the paddle shape. Reading up on mixing blades was interesting...in a dul engineering kind of way.
 
Extraction Procedure for Tests Run @ Canyons':

Someone asked a while back. I got sidetracked with sonics.

I was trying to closely control the variables. I used a mini crockpot filled with a water bath. A silicon pad was placed under the beaker containing coconut oil and Nightmare cookies ground in a spice grinder. This was maintained @ 165-170 f, checking with infrared therm. & stirring every 20 min. So the crock was providing indirect heat so to speak. Then 2hrs & 4 hrs. Does that clear it up for whomever?
 
QUESTION: What do you guys think is the best grinder for a oz. or more (for decarb)?

:cco::thanks::cco:
 
CCOiler said:
QUESTION: What do you guys think is the best grinder for a oz. or more (for decarb)?

:cco::thanks::cco:
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I wish I had a reason to know. LOL That would be a lot in one shot for most anything. I use an Epica spice grinder with a dusting of PAM. But it would take multiple runs. Its only a few seconds though.
 
Thanks Kicknitup1 & Blew Hiller

:cco::thanks::cco:
 
Kicknitup1 said:
I just like containing the trichombes. I fashioned a wax paper cover for the top of the grind bowl to keep particles from flying up & sticking to the Plastic lid.
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Our immersion blender came with a custom cup (deep and bottom is same size as blender head so nothing escapes). We spritz a little water in prior to blending and wrap a piece of plastic wrap around the top (and blender wand) to keep all the goodness within!
 
Kicknitup1 said:
I just like containing the trichombes. I fashioned a wax paper cover for the top of the grind bowl to keep particles from flying up & sticking to the Plastic lid.
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That's a good idea, what do you use to scrap all of the goodies out?
 
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