Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

I just wanted to ask someones opinion on something. I know decarbing activates the weed. But what I've been wondering is, is already vaped bud the same as decarbing. I guess what I'm getting at is does the oils or useful stuff go out with the vapor and if so wouldn't it do the same thing in the oven
 
Patm80 said:
I just wanted to ask someones opinion on something. I know decarbing activates the weed. But what I've been wondering is, is already vaped bud the same as decarbing. I guess what I'm getting at is does the oils or useful stuff go out with the vapor and if so wouldn't it do the same thing in the oven
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I made a mistake one time and placed the buds in a metal tray on the lower rack in my toaster oven. Turned out the temp got hot enough to melt and vaporize the cannabinoids. It was like steam more than smoke. The plant material did not burn.

This is what the vape pens do - the temp is in the correct range to vaporize the cannabinoids.

In the oven the temps are below what the vape pens operate at.

A dry open to air decarb will release more cannabinoids and terpenes than a wet decarb. The biggest indicator is smell. A dry decarb in a covered container is better. The theory is that wet bud bits in a covered container will lose the least amount of cannabinoids and terpenes.
 
Oldbear said:
I made a mistake one time and placed the buds in a metal tray on the lower rack in my toaster oven. Turned out the temp got hot enough to melt and vaporize the cannabinoids. It was like steam more than smoke. The plant material did not burn.

This is what the vape pens do - the temp is in the correct range to vaporize the cannabinoids.

In the oven the temps are below what the vape pens operate at.

A dry open to air decarb will release more cannabinoids and terpenes than a wet decarb. The biggest indicator is smell. A dry decarb in a covered container is better. The theory is that wet bud bits in a covered container will lose the least amount of cannabinoids and terpenes.
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Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks heaps. Really appreciate it
 
Canyon said:
What if.......
you took an antacid a few minutes before ingesting an eatable? Would that slow down the degrading of the cannabinoids? Could it be that simple?
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I recently came across research results supporting the theory that stomach acids will eventually destroy cannabinods (bare in mind you can find evidence to support most any theory on the World Wide Web). With this information, I pondered whether it would be better to eat something with my medicine to soften the effect of stomach acid or take it alone in hopes it will exit my stomach as quickly as possible. Still don't have the answer to that.

I haven't tried antacids but I did experiment with a peptic pump inhibitor (omeprazole) and found absolutely no difference in the effectiveness of my dosage. FWIW.
 
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Kicknitup1 said:
Well it doubled up but there it is. If this thing works, it's a game changer for quick research.
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Read the fine print before buying. Accuracy is like 20% or something like that.
There is a stand alone that they sell for $600 and the accuracy is not there. I wouldn't waste my money. It's cheaper in the long run to have a testing lab do it unless you're testing multiple strains.
 
Oldbear said:
Kickn can you remind me please - what was the problem with the one used during the tests?
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It just fritzed out and started giving readings we knew were false. They tried to patch the code for us but it didn't help. That was my second one. The first one appeared to be accurate pretty much all the time. Then one day the screen froze and that was it. They replaced it promptly. I think, much like the other tester 308Jerry bought(??), they got off to a rocky start. All in all, from a tech point of view, I think tcheck had the better platform. I am going to have a chat with them soon & try to get a feel for why they think they are on solid ground.

We had planned to use tcheck to determine potency at 1 hr intervals. I bet the new one still doesn't, but if it broke out the THCA & CBN from the rest....ohhh that would so help me in my experiments RIGHT NOW. They mentioned CBD which is good but not as helpful for the task at hand.
 
Kicknitup1 said:
Decarb.

If one were to say, hook up a thermocouple to the Nova, one would see it spend 15 min getting up to 240f. Then, it holds 240f almost exactly for one hour. Then it spends 15 min cooling off. We achieved a 98.2% decarb with virtually no CBN. (test showed 0.06% after decarb but that mysteriously cured itself in subsequent tests.) The Nova is a well controlled environment. A must have? Well I just told you how to duplicate the results. However, I like it for the set it & forget it feature. Also, good smell control. That's a biggie for the bulk of the world.

Do it any way you want. Just tightly control that temp. YES, before everybody chimes in, there are lots of other time/temp values that will work. Just remember, it's a first order reaction all day long so the time/temp are always going to be inversely related. But this is a proven time/temp to use as a baseline.

Do I recommend the Nova? Before I answer, I am not compensated in any way. Hell, they won't even answer emails. IF it continues to run trouble free for a few years, then yes, it is worth it to me. If it burns out in 9 months, I will be making my own. (it has a 1 yr warranty but you get the idea)

I'm not saying stop experimenting by any means! This is simply a proven way to get it done. Canyon and others are experimenting with pressure for terpene retention. There's plenty of room for refinement. Remember, this plant is used in a lot of ways. Decarbing under pressure or in a vacuum is worth looking at. So, now you know what I know about that.
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There's little argument these devices are of dubious quality and CS and QC are definitely lacking. Many are received in a non-working state or with pieces missing. The assembly of some looks as though they are done by kids. Responses from the company are slow in coming if at all. Processing of orders are painfully slow with promises of 2-3 weeks but often taking much longer.

With all of these negatives, why would anyone consider laying down a goodly chunk of change for this device? In short, simply RESULTS! Of the many reviews and comments I've seen, without exception there's been nothing but praise for the end results. Arguably, the consistency and efficacy are probably unattainable by most other methods.

Besides tests offered by the company (I try hard to believe this chest pounding, also), with your results, I've seen 6 supporting lab tests of this unit. The conversion rates range from 95-98%. Remarkable! The lowest results was actually for a thc/cbd strain and while the thc conversion rate was only 95% the cbd was 98%.

With an inserted heat probe hooked to a graph, the total time varies generally from just less than 1 hr 30min to 1 hr 45 min, apparently dependent on the load. The probe shows the variance is in the heat up and cool down cycle and not the actual heat process which operates in a precise range between 235-244 degrees for 1 hr. The heat cycles are in consistent 3 min cycles which leads me to believe the heating element may be controlled by a timer rather thermostat during this stage (?). The onboard microprocessor is sophisticated for such a small device and is capable of either mode of control.

Last week, after a miserable failed attempt in assisting a friend in doing a decarb in his oven, I knew I needed a better mouse trap. Time will tell if this is it or not.

FWIW the price is now $190 with a $30 discount with coupon code SATIVA30.
 
I'm not understanding why duplicating the conditions provided by this gadget wont produce the same results?

Edit to add a recipe.

Put some bud in a small mason jar. Put on a tinfoil top (the mason lids have rubber) and screw on the ring. Maybe one tiny pin hole.

Pop it into a toaster oven pre heated to 240F. Allow 15 minutes to come up to temp. Bake for 1 hour. Then turn off heat. Allow to rest in the oven for 15 minutes.

This has to be close enough to a Nova decarb that result differences would be insignificant given all the bio availability and people react differently variables.

Am I missing something??

Now compared to an open to air decarb in an oven with a poor thermostat - yes there is room for doing better compared to that.

If you order in the next 20 minutes (I cant do this all day) Ill ship you not 1 but 2 Oldbear Magic Decarb machines for only $19.95. plus shipping and handling.
 
Oldbear said:
I'm not understanding why duplicating the conditions provided by this gadget wont produce the same results?
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There's probably little doubt that duplicate conditions=duplicate results. I think the problem is successfully duplicating conditions consistently. I've yet to see evidence of any other method achieving repetitive conversion rates at this efficacy supported by multiple lab tests. But I'm never too old to learn a new trick!
 
Bucudinkydow said:
There's probably little doubt that duplicate conditions=duplicate results. I think the problem is successfully duplicating conditions consistently. I've yet to see evidence of any other method achieving repetitive conversion rates at this efficacy supported by multiple lab tests. But I'm never too old to learn a new trick!
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Something Ive done - call me OCDish or whatever the term is - is to calibrate my ovens. I know what adjustments to make to the dial setting to get the desired temperature. I measure that with different temp gauges.

I also run them (1 gas large, 1 electric large. and toaster oven) using the convection settings which I think stirs the air eliminating hot or cold spots.

The small closed container is interesting. Makes me wonder if bud moisture being turned into steam makes a difference in the chemistry.

To quote Canyon - "I never know."
 
Pop it into a toaster oven pre heated to 240F. Allow 15 minutes to come up to temp. Bake for 1 hour. Then turn off heat. Allow to rest in the oven for 15 minutes.

This has to be close enough to a Nova decarb that result differences would be insignificant given all the bio availability and people react differently variables.

Am I missing something??

Now compared to an open to air decarb in an oven with a poor thermostat - yes there is room for doing better compared to that.

If you order in the next 20 minutes (I cant do this all day) Ill ship you not 1 but 2 Oldbear Magic Decarb machines for only $19.95. plus shipping and handling.

LMAO! nope, not really missing anything. It's just harder to control the temp in toaster oven or anywhere elso....except maybe an oil bath (electric skillet?). Like I said, jar+ 240f + 15min warmup +1 hr + 15min cool down.

It says it does CCO also. ...I talking with Canyon (when you check your email) about characteristics of oil but me thinks it needs maybe 15 more min. Twas awfully racy brownie. lol But it does do it at least mostly Im sure.

HEY; I don't think it would hurt to add 10 min to the time of buds. I am now convinced CBN is not as big of a problem as previously thought. Also, keep it in small nugs.
 
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