Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[Kicknitup1]

I put the material from the oil in cheese cloth and used a heavy dudy lemon squeezer and squeezed the crap out of it and got 90 percent of the starting olive oil

Well thats pretty darn good sir. I use more pressure than that and can only get 85%. Are you using a graduated cylinder to measure or just a measuring cup or whatever?

 

[HealthFreak]

All I have is a Pyrex measuring cup unfortunately , I tie em in little egg size balls , the squeezer I have is made from cast iron and has 2 handles about 8" for leverage

Well thats pretty darn good sir. I use more pressure than that and can only get 85%. Are you using a graduated cylinder to measure or just a measuring cup or whatever?

 

[HealthFreak]

Maybe I'm freakishly strong lol

 

[Canyon]

I'm volunteering to do some sort of a write up on this test sequence. Not sure what is will look like so will post a version 00.5 for comments.

Canyon I need two variables I think - when you did the oil extraction how much bud and how much oil were used? Its probably in here but I couldn't find it.

Nightmare Cookies
Sheet 7 is dried flowers not decarbed. It is the baseline.

Sh. 13 is flowers after Nova decarb. It can be referenced to 7 for decarb values. It also becomes the reference for sh. 14.

Sh. 14 is the results of the 2hr oil run. The sample weight was 5mg. The carrier oil weight was 52.78g (58ml X the density factor of 0.91 mg/ml).

Sh. 15 is the remains of the two hr oil run. From post #395 there was 8 ml of the 2hr infused in this test plus 15ml of new oil for a total of 23ml. The idea was to get an idea of how much could be recovered by diluting the sample and reheating for an additional 2hr.

Sh. 16 was from the same sample as the original raw flower sample (sh7) but from another run. The sample weight was 7g and oil weight was 74.52. This is the 4 hour oil run.

I will save the fresh harvest Extreme plant and the terpene tests for another post.

Changing topics
I will travel to Albuquerque Tuesday and stay until my wife is discharged from the hospital. That could be as early as Friday or who knows how much longer. Originally I had planned to take more tests with me. Now I am thinking waiting may be better.

Chances are there will be a follow up appointment within three weeks. I am still holding some of the original Nightmare buds. There is also a nice size plant that has been flowering for 43 days. There should be enough to make some extracts and work with them if we want.

If I were making a wish list, it would be nice to have a terpene test after a nova decarb. Along the same lines, a terpene test after a pressure cooker decarb could tell us something. I don't have a Nova and I don't know enough about what time, temperature and methods others have tried. I have samples at 90 minutes on high but I am thinking that that may not be long enough.

Another voice is saying, "Just make some QWET and rosen and work on a low temp decarb."
I never know

 

[Kicknitup1]

I ordered some ooo's but need them for last night so I also bought some locally. UHHH...they, it, worked. lol. Was purely guessing for sure but that is about to end. HALLELUJAH! From our friends @ tcheck....




Hello!

We have recently completed a very big, very awesome update for tCheck. If you have already updated to version 2.0- great! If not, whip that tCheck out and get to updating. In the meantime here's what's what:

New feature alert! Once you choose your testing base, you will be asked if you decarboxylated or not. For those unclear on what this entails, it's just gently heating your flower for a specific amount of time to "activate" it ( THCa becomes THC basically- if you aren't on the decarb train, you better hop on board and get to learnin') What's so great about asking this? It makes tCheck more accurate.-

I bet you want this more accurate number right away, right? More good news, testing time has been reduced to-24 seconds! We know that time is precious When you get these new improved results, you'll also be happy to know that the testing range for decarbed infusions has been raised to 15mg/ml. Woo HOO!!!-

You do not need to re-calibrate your device for all this wonderfulness to happen, either. We took care of that for you. Just update, and let the good times roll.

If you notice the little "loading" hexagon acting funny after you test, don't worry about it. It's just because we sped up the testing for you. We will make it all pretty later. What was most important, was to get this update finished, and out the door- to you.

Thank you so much for hanging in there with us. We hope you are just as happy with the changes as we are.-

Thank you so much,

Regards,
tCheck Support Team

 

[Kicknitup1]

All I have is a Pyrex measuring cup unfortunately , I tie em in little egg size balls , the squeezer I have is made from cast iron and has 2 handles about 8" for leverage

Yeah, I have one of those also. You name it, Ive tried it. lol.

 

[Scientific]

I stumbled on the Nova Decarboylator website just now. $190?! For a gizmo to heat your herb? Seriously?

 

[bebecillo]

I stumbled on the Nova Decarboylator website just now. $190?! For a gizmo to heat your herb? Seriously?

I've seen knockoffs on Amazon, but currently it's the only real device that will give you between 85 and 98% conversion (and the method that keeps most terpenes) according to the tests made here. OTOH people complain of the device build quality given the price tag.

 

[Scientific]

I've seen knockoffs on Amazon, but currently it's the only real device that will give you between 85 and 98% conversion (and the method that keeps most terpenes) according to the tests made here. OTOH people complain of the device build quality given the price tag.

The woman who was flogging the product in the video said it had an algorithm. Does anyone know what time and temperature that algorithm specifies? I can't think of anything else extra groovy it could be doing...

 

[Oldbear]

[TABLE="width: 427"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Air Dried Flower With Olive Oil Infusion[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Product[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]THC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Flower [/TD]
[TD]T8[/TD]
[TD] 230.00[/TD]
[TD]mg/g[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sample Size[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD] 1,150.00[/TD]
[TD]mg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Olive Oil Solution [/TD]
[TD]T14[/TD]
[TD] 14.10[/TD]
[TD]mg/ml[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sample Size[/TD]
[TD]58[/TD]
[TD] 817.80[/TD]
[TD]mg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Leftover Mash with Oil[/TD]
[TD]T15[/TD]
[TD] 6.20[/TD]
[TD]mg/ml[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sample Size[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD] 142.60[/TD]
[TD]mg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Extraction Efficiency[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] 960.40[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]84%[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Not accounted for [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] 189.60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16%[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Notes:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Density factor not used[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minimal CBx so ignored[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]Significant qty in leftovers worth using[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]Does T15 reflect cannabinoids in the oil soaked flower bits?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Oldbear]

I macgyvered up the spreadsheet using information provided by our resident real lab test superheros.

What is it telling me:

Olive oil extractions work very well and certainly well enough that I dont need to buy any gadgets.
A second extraction run using hot oil as a wash and/or a soak should be considered.
The leftover mash has too many goodies to throw away.

Hypothesis - there is still a lot of cannabinoids in the wet mash which must be a big part of the unaccounted for figures.

Some % of the unaccounted for will be left on the processing tools. Now a good cleanup, where all that is recovered and ingested, makes that a non issue.

Take away: Olive oil extraction is a keeper. Everything in it is good for you (unlike solvent based extracts). There is no significant waste anywhere because the left overs are edible.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

Thanx, oldbear. A suggestion:

Save your old mash until you're ready to do another extraction. Use fresh oil to do a hot rinse or soak of your old mash and then use this oil to process your new material. Not real familiar with the process you oilers use and this may be common practice. Just throwing it out there.

 

[bebecillo]

The woman who was flogging the product in the video said it had an algorithm. Does anyone know what time and temperature that algorithm specifies? I can't think of anything else extra groovy it could be doing...

Being optimistic I think it must have a heating element and tons of sensors that heat the container to certaim temp and RH level and turning on only when levels go below a threshold.

I'm sure a ceramic heating element (like a hair straightener) and a fancy container could work just as well but you're paying for the concenience and small space.

 

[SweetSue]

Canyon told me but I forgot. The wife can't stand the taste of brownies with megadoses in them so I'm trying another approach. I ordered some ooo's. Huge probably but she will still have to take 8-10. lol. I want to beef up the concentration to 20mg/ml so that would not be so many. But until we solve the efficiency problem, I can't afford the loss. Oh well....

What dose are you trying to get to with the wife, and, if I may be so bold, for the treatment of what concern? My daughter takes 8 size 00 capsules daily, but she weights over 300 pounds and has a debilitating anxiety disorder. 8-10 capsules for another patient set my alarms off. I can't take more than three of those capsules my daughter gobbles every day without flying so high I don't get anything but laughing done. I weigh half of what she does and I'm much more active, so my system requires much less to be a effective.

In most cases with cannabis a lower dose is more therapeutic than a higher one. Cannabis is biphasic in effect. Get too little and you won't feel it. Take too much THC and the system takes receptors off line and you develop tolerances that take much higher doses.

000 capsules are uncomfortably large IMO. You might want to send off an order for 00.

Scientific, I was under the impression that the 00 caps held .95 ml. Are you saying it's really .75, or was that a typo?

Kickin, the capsules you want are NOT the vegan ones. The ad should tell you whether they're rated for oils. Olive oil seeps more than coconut, since coconut goes solid at room temps. I keep all of my prepared capsules in the fridge.

 

[DrZiggy]

What dose are you trying to get to with the wife, and, if I may be so bold, for the treatment of what concern? My daughter takes 8 size 00 capsules daily, but she weights over 300 pounds and has a debilitating anxiety disorder. 8-10 capsules for another patient set my alarms off. I can't take more than three of those capsules my daughter gobbles every day without flying so high I don't get anything but laughing done. I weigh half of what she does and I'm much more active, so my system requires much less to be a effective.

In most cases with cannabis a lower dose is more therapeutic than a higher one. Cannabis is biphasic in effect. Get too little and you won't feel it. Take too much THC and the system takes receptors off line and you develop tolerances that take much higher doses.

000 capsules are uncomfortably large IMO. You might want to send off an order for 00.

Scientific, I was under the impression that the 00 caps held .95 ml. Are you saying it's really .75, or was that a typo?

Kickin, the capsules you want are NOT the vegan ones. The ad should tell you whether they're rated for oils. Olive oil seeps more than coconut, since coconut goes solid at room temps. I keep all of my prepared capsules in the fridge.

Empty Capsule Size Chart

 

[Oldbear]

Thanx, oldbear. A suggestion:

Save your old mash until you're ready to do another extraction. Use fresh oil to do a hot rinse or soak of your old mash and then use this oil to process your new material. Not real familiar with the process you oilers use and this may be common practice. Just throwing it out there.

Great suggestion. I think its worth it based on whats in the leftovers. Ive seen this used with solvent extraction especially with Everclear but never for oil.

I'm close to another baking session so will try it out - I like the hot rinse option. And just for fun, after second rinse I may drop the mash in some simmering water to see how much of the oil I get get out of the mash.

 

[DrZiggy]

Great suggestion. I think its worth it based on whats in the leftovers. Ive seen this used with solvent extraction especially with Everclear but never for oil.

I'm close to another baking session so will try it out - I like the hot rinse option. And just for fun, after second rinse I may drop the mash in some simmering water to see how much of the oil I get get out of the mash.

I would freeze it(mash) quickly soon after if not used. if wet, mold can grow on the mash even in fridge

 

[SweetSue]

Thanks everyone. I did not now about 36 hour decarb! I'll add that to my notebook.

I'm in the middle of one right now. It both infuses and decarbs the cannabis in a tightly sealed jar at 170 degrees, which is the smallest temperature my gas oven hits.

I'm making a batch of brownie oil, which I typically begin by decarbing in the oven, but this harvest was dried low and slo to retain as many terpenes and flavinoids as possible, so I decided to try to keep them more intact with this method.

Bust the flowers small but not powdery, and combine with carrier oil and liquid sunflower lecithin in a jar that can be tightly closed. You're going to be shaking it up every time you think of it over the 36 hours.

Heat the oven to the lowest setting. Remove all but one rack from the oven and place that one in the center of the space. Place the sealed and vigoriously-shaken jar on a baking sheet on the rack and leave it there for at least 24 hours, shaking vigoriously every time you remember it's in there. I always do 36 hours.

The lid is hot. Remember the pot holder.

With brownies I don't bother straining, but at the end of the process you strain, refrigerate at least overnight, but preferable for 24 hours to give the lecithin time to encapsulate the oil-bonded cannabinoids for swifter absorbtion.

I put the material from the oil in cheese cloth and used a heavy dudy lemon squeezer and squeezed the crap out of it and got 90 percent of the starting olive oil

Maybe I'm freakishly strong lol

That's what it is. Lol! I have a similar one.

It didn't perform as well as I'd hoped, but it never occured to me to make the bundles the size of lemons, so I'll try again next batch.

I much prefer the old dependable potato ricer. Sloppy, but effective. Only problem is all the surfaces to hang onto the oil.

Thanx, oldbear. A suggestion:

Save your old mash until you're ready to do another extraction. Use fresh oil to do a hot rinse or soak of your old mash and then use this oil to process your new material. Not real familiar with the process you oilers use and this may be common practice. Just throwing it out there.

Oldbear taught me to eat the mash, a practice I've grown quite fond of in a short time, but this idea excites me. I love having multiple options, don't you?

Being optimistic I think it must have a heating element and tons of sensors that heat the container to certaim temp and RH level and turning on only when levels go below a threshold.

I'm sure a ceramic heating element (like a hair straightener) and a fancy container could work just as well but you're paying for the concenience and small space.

Neiko proved to me over a year ago that you can get almost 100% decarb in your oven - I believe he achieved 97% on the test he shared with us in the study hall. So yes, you're paying for convienience and appearances. For me, the tCheck would be the device that'd get my attention, if it weren't for the fact that many of the chemovars I grow are in excess of 15% THC values, or at least that's the expectation. My medicinal oils are mostly in the 15% or less for THC, but that's one strain.

If I'm going to invest in testing its going to be with a lab. For the kitchen cannabis alchemist producing oils for the family and friends all this close monitoring of the cannabinoids is a luxury we can live without. We work with what may be the safest medicinal herb on the planet. My interest here is in creating the most medicinally diverse oils in that home kitchen I can, and all this brainstorming is helping me do that.

Thank you all for being so engaged with this process.

 

[SweetSue]

Empty Capsule Size Chart

Ziggy, I love you. I didn't shower you with nearly enough hugs when we were in Jamaica.

Ok, 00s hold .90 ml of oil.

 

[DrZiggy]

Mr. Coffee(R) 4-Cup Coffee Press in Black - Bed Bath & Beyond