Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

Good afternoon,
These were from two different batches of oil. The material and oil weights are different.

Yes, I know there is no page 16 posted yet. I need to redact them. Let me get the terpene results posted first.

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Scorpio420 said:
I've used the 36hr method and worked well

Mason jar,covered, in my oven at 170deg for 36hr

Shake jar every hr 1st 12hr ish, then when ya think about it

Not sure if any of the tests had this method or not
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SweetSue, Canyon & others here use the 36 hr. Especially for FHO. I don't think anyone has tested it.
 
Scientific said:
I have used plain old gelatin capsules from the health food store to make Cannna Caps with coconut "oil" (which is a solid at room temp, so no danger of it leaking).

The brand was Now Healthy Foods Double "00" Gelatin Caps

"00" size holds about .75 gram coconut oil each

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Canyon told me but I forgot. The wife can't stand the taste of brownies with megadoses in them so I'm trying another approach. I ordered some ooo's. Huge probably but she will still have to take 8-10. lol. I want to beef up the concentration to 20mg/ml so that would not be so many. But until we solve the efficiency problem, I can't afford the loss. Oh well....
 
NOW HEALTHY FOODS is the brand I have and I recall its one :hmmmm:of the brands that our SwwetSue recommends.

I'm struggling with understanding what the various test results are telling us. In particular is there a test of traditional air dried flowers, and then a test of an olive oil extraction and decarb solution, and a test of what remains in the mash?

I'm not actually certain this was covered in the scenarios.

I am very appreciative of the time, effort and $ invested in these tests through combined efforts of many :thanks:
 
Oldbear said:
I'm struggling with understanding what the various test results are telling us.
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Looks like there's an increasing amount of raw data. It would be great if someone could do the data reduction and analysis and reporting, with summary.

(I used to work for a manager whose immediate reaction to someone saying "It would be great if someone would..." was to assign the person the task they had been speculating about, with no reduction in other responsibilities.)
 
Scientific said:
Looks like there's an increasing amount of raw data. It would be great if someone could do the data reduction and analysis and reporting, with summary.

(I used to work for a manager whose immediate reaction to someone saying "It would be great if someone would..." was to assign the person the task they had been speculating about, with no reduction in other responsibilities.)
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Get errr done volunteer.....lol
 
Oldbear said:
NOW HEALTHY FOODS is the brand I have and I recall its one :hmmmm:of the brands that our SwwetSue recommends.

I'm struggling with understanding what the various test results are telling us. In particular is there a test of traditional air dried flowers, and then a test of an olive oil extraction and decarb solution, and a test of what remains in the mash?

I'm not actually certain this was covered in the scenarios.

I am very appreciative of the time, effort and $ invested in these tests through combined efforts of many :thanks:
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That is about it. There is an undecarbed flower test of Nightmare Cookies (7&8) Then a Nova decarbed flower test (13). Next is a 2hr oil infusion (14). After that there was a test of the remains (15).

Sheets 16 & 17 is are from another run of Nightmare Cookies that had a different sample and oil weight. It was a Nova decarbed batch that was infused for 4 hr. That is why the last charts are laid out the way they are. They are details comparing 2hr and 4hr infusions in a crock pot.

There are also fresh harvest tests from an Extreme plant. 11&12 are undecarbed flowers. 9&10 are from sample #4 described in post 103. With these, the estimated dry weight is just a guess. We do not know what the dry flower weight would be. It certenly woule be higher than the ten grams in the charts. I am adding a new version with this post that also fixes the percentage decimal error.

What is notable is that there was rather good infusion at time and temperatures less than needed to get more than minor decarb.

What we do not know and where we dropped the ball, is how much of the terpenes is the Nova decarb retaining.


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Scientific said:
Hi Canyon -- I watched the YouTube video below to get the rundown on how you decarb in a pressure cooker.

In the video, she puts the plant material in a sealed container inside a pressure cooker that gets up to 253 F (IIRC), which would mean the pressure was about 16 PSI.

I don't see an advantage of doing it that way, and it could actually be worse since higher temps can mean reduced retention of volatiles.

First, I think that temperature is higher than is necessary or desirable. I think it's well established now that we can decarboxylate at lower temperatures if we give the process more time, and to me, lower temperatures are better because fewer volatiles are lost.

Second, I don't see any benefit in pressurizing other than to raise the boiling point of the water bath.

The only reason I can think of to use a water bath is because the temperature can be more consistent and controlled. But I have decarbed effectively in a double boiler at atmospheric pressure, so no need for the pressure as far as I can see.

I decarbed in a double boiler back when I had an ancient gas stove. But my modern GE electric oven can regulate temperature pretty well all the way down to 170 F, so I just pop my weed in the oven now at 220 F for 105 minutes and that seems to work fine.

I don't cover my cannabis for the reason given in an earlier post: I suspect that any terpenes liberated by the heat will either condense on the walls of the container or just wander off if they can. The woman in the video says she likes to wait 20 minutes before opening the inner container to give the volatiles time to settle back on the plant material. I really don't think it works that way...

In short, I don't think that decarbing in a double boiler is worth the trouble when, if you want to use a double boiler, you can effectively (I think) decarb at 1 atmosphere/212F. Or you can decarb in an electric oven of recent manufacture with good electronic temperature control.

So there's my data, reasoning, and opinion. Comments from y'all?

Pressure Cooking Cannabis to Decarb it and Activate THC - YouTube
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This morning I woke up to a dead monitor that I changed out. Then there was the scrambled icons and no sound. Now the net is moving at dial up speeds. I still have not managed to watch the video.

You are probably going t be the one with the correct thinking. Even so, I would like to add my thoughts about using a pressure cooker.

When the pressure is increased, the boiling points of everything in the chamber would go up and the vaporization rate would decrease. These two things would somewhat cancel the effects of higher temperatures. Then the higher vapor concentrations in the chamber would further slow the loss.

Or I could be wrong.

I never know
 
Canyon said:
This morning I woke up to a dead monitor that I changed out. Then there was the scrambled icons and no sound. Now the net is moving at dial up speeds. I still have not managed to watch the video.

You are probably going t be the one with the correct thinking. Even so, I would like to add my thoughts about using a pressure cooker.

When the pressure is increased, the boiling points of everything in the chamber would go up and the vaporization rate would decrease. These two things would somewhat cancel the effects of higher temperatures. Then the higher vapor concentrations in the chamber would further slow the loss.

Or I could be wrong.

I never know
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That's a good point. I hadn't thought about how the BPs of everything would be higher at 16 PSI. That could be a good thing. I wonder what the effect of pressure on decarboxylation would be?
 
I put the material from the oil in cheese cloth and used a heavy dudy lemon squeezer and squeezed the crap out of it and got 90 percent of the starting olive oil

Kicknitup1 said:
Scientific, that's exactly why I dismissed the pressure cooker. There is no way that I can think of to get direct pressure on the extraction. That's the only thing that may help. The PC only raises the temp of the water. Yes you can decarb with it with the correct time dialed in but that's not solving the terpene problem. And, any step that includes mixing water with the oil, I'm against. That being said, it's the only way to get the last of the oil out of the mtl. At least then, you are only involving 10-12% of the oil. I ran 32ml of oil in 7g mtl and lost 5ml. About 4 of that is in those dreggs. That's a 15% waste factor (unacceptable to me) if you don't go after it. Any better ideas about getting it out????
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I think Sue told me to not use vegetable capsules and to buy bovine I think as they tend not to seep with olive oil,

Kicknitup1 said:
Canyon told me but I forgot. The wife can't stand the taste of brownies with megadoses in them so I'm trying another approach. I ordered some ooo's. Huge probably but she will still have to take 8-10. lol. I want to beef up the concentration to 20mg/ml so that would not be so many. But until we solve the efficiency problem, I can't afford the loss. Oh well....
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Scientific said:
Thanks everyone. :thanks: I did not now about 36 hour decarb! I'll add that to my notebook.
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Hey Sci, I missed class last week. Can I get a copy of your notebook? ;)
 
Canyon said:
T There is an undecarbed flower test of Nightmare Cookies (7&8). Next is a 2hr oil infusion (14). After that there was a test of the remains (15).
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I'm volunteering to do some sort of a write up on this test sequence. Not sure what is will look like so will post a version 00.5 for comments.

Canyon I need two variables I think - when you did the oil extraction how much bud and how much oil were used? Its probably in here but I couldn't find it.
 
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