Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
That's a pretty good thought! I will look into that option. Im sure there are spreadsheet gurus on board that are better than me anyway.
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction
That's a pretty good thought! I will look into that option. Im sure there are spreadsheet gurus on board that are better than me anyway.
Lemmy try it
Well.... Guess ya cant save as JPG.. Gotta copy and past,
Pasted this into PAINT
seems ok
Pasted this into PAINT
seems ok
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
I copied into paint but the resolution was terrible. Don't see a way to increase it. Yours looks fine Scorpio.
Ya need to copy to paint..and crop the outside area so ya just have the image ...then it will be larger, otherwise u have a paper sized image or whatever yer area is set at
Make sense
Like bottom imageBelow this is the first:
Below this is the second. Much clearer.
Crop out the blank area, will increase the resolution
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Well my first problem now is...when I "copy as picture" on the selected area it copies fine. Then when you save it as a pic, the image is almost all black. Not a complete negative I don't think. I hate Office. I tried into paint & res went down. I was pasting into word, which shouldn't matter. I don't have my graphic suite software anymore or I could do most anything.I looked for a "reverse image" tool in case it was a negative. Don't see one.
Send it to me...I'll play with it
bebecillo
Well-Known Member
Can you dm me the excel file? I can upload it somewhere so people can toy with it but not delete it
This should work for most of us.
I cleaned it up some and fixed some math. The first sheet is split into the 3 below it.
Trying to PM the file will probably give us the same problems. I can send the file to anyone who wants to have a better look if I have an address and you are someone who has been posting to this thread for a while.
There are a few caveats.
Opening excel files can be dangerous.
Some of the numbers are from formulas and some are just numbers.
Everything is subject to change.
We need to be careful not to windup with several working versions.
I have forgotten nearly everything I knew about formulas. Some of it is cumming back.
I ordered a standard cannabinoid and an extended terpene test on the oil. They have not posted yet.
I cleaned it up some and fixed some math. The first sheet is split into the 3 below it.
Trying to PM the file will probably give us the same problems. I can send the file to anyone who wants to have a better look if I have an address and you are someone who has been posting to this thread for a while.
There are a few caveats.
Opening excel files can be dangerous.
Some of the numbers are from formulas and some are just numbers.
Everything is subject to change.
We need to be careful not to windup with several working versions.
I have forgotten nearly everything I knew about formulas. Some of it is cumming back.
I ordered a standard cannabinoid and an extended terpene test on the oil. They have not posted yet.
ginganinja30
Well-Known Member
Came across this great info graphic today and this was the 1st place I thought of to share.
Not sure about the rules on posting pics from different cannabis sites/resources so my apologies if I've fecked up.
...
Scientific
New Member
Came across this great info graphic today and this was the 1st place I thought of to share.
OMG, something from Leafly that looks like it contains some actual useful information and isn't utter BS (though I'd like to see the science behind the "effects" and "medicinal benefits" claims, since it appears that the folks at Leafly pretty much just make sh*t up as they go along.)
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
With the boiling points of terpenes being significantly higher than most everyone's decarb temps, why is this process so detrimental to our beloved terpenoids? Does anyone have any insight into what's happening molecularly? I've been rather disappointed in the effects presented by my infused oils and tinctures. In spite of several different strains, I don't recognize a huge amount of difference in any of them. They all seem a bit more sedative than I prefer. The strains personality seems to get lost somewhere in the process and I sense loss of terpenes is the problem. For me, analytically, I find it most difficult to find a remedy unless I first have a thorough understanding of the problem and I'm not at this point, yet. Watching this thread intently and anxious to learn.
Scientific
New Member
Here is a simplistic, intuitive, "seems to me" approach to answering the question, but I don't think I'm too far wrong with this.
Terpenes are comparatively small, light molecules that evaporate even at room temperature (which is why we can smell them). When you increase the temperature, they evaporate faster even if they're not boiling. So heating your herb at all increases the rate of loss.
Just to throw in some (possibly very misleading) numbers, a decarbing temperature of 220 F is roughly 65% of the the boiling point of the terpenes listed. If you heated water to 138 F (65% of its boiling point) you would expect it to evaporate significantly faster.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
yeah, that's puzzling me too. We should not be losing them based upon temp. Even Canyon's FHO done in an oven at temps too low to decarb lost all but trace amounts. ....If I'm remembering the test correctly.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
Your analogy of water was helpful. I've always viewed boiling point as reaching X temp and, boom, it happens. I lost sight of natural evaporation that simply happens at ambient temperatures and is hastened, probably, directly proportional to increases in heat. Knocking off the cobwebs to revisit knowledge procured from my old chemistry classes, evaporation takes place only at surface level by overcoming surface tension of lighter molecules, as you proposed. Introduction of heat, even at levels below boiling point, excite the molecules, weakening cohesive bond, allowing them to float off into the wild blue yonder. And, oops, there go our terpenes. Thank you, sir, for helping me sort that out.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
I think that's about how it goes. At least that's the theory I'm working at this time. When the FHO lost almost all I knew we were in for a tough road to preservation. I still think it will come down to adding some nondecarbed bud in at the last few min. of extraction. I don't even know if BHO preserves them. If so, you could stir that in the warm extract at the very end.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
By the way, take my addendum with a grain of salt. I just remember I failed chemistry. Only took the class because I was in lust with the hot teach. Didn't make out very well on either front.
Scientific
New Member
Here's a random, irreverent, possibly off-the-wall, and kinda off-topic question: If terpenes are the key to the various types of high, why not just buy them pure and add them to customize your vape?
I read a pretty convincing article that said that the explanation for the legendary difference in the effects of indica and sativa is the amount of myrcene.
I remember seeing bottles of myrcene, pinene, linalool, and lots and lots of other such stuff on the shelves of the chemistry storeroom when I was taking organic chemistry (and taking the cap off a bottle of benzaldehyde and the whole room suddenly smelling like my grandmother's kitchen when she was baking almond cookies, but that's another story).
So at the extreme of better living through chemistry, it occurred to me that if the entourage effect is real, you should be able to take pure, synthetic THC (Marinol is an example I believe) and then add x percent myrcene and y percent pinene, etc. to just evenutally dial in the exact, desired effect.
At the very least, I find myself wondering what would happen if I just augmented my oil with 1%, 2%, x% myrcene.
Sorry, I know that's going off-topic and should go on another thread, but with all of this discussion of and effort toward preserving the natural balance of the volatiles (and my bud tender down at the Pot Stop shop telling me to eat mangoes when smoking weed to augment myrcene), I had to pose the question to people who are knowledgeable and interested in this subject.
I read a pretty convincing article that said that the explanation for the legendary difference in the effects of indica and sativa is the amount of myrcene.
I remember seeing bottles of myrcene, pinene, linalool, and lots and lots of other such stuff on the shelves of the chemistry storeroom when I was taking organic chemistry (and taking the cap off a bottle of benzaldehyde and the whole room suddenly smelling like my grandmother's kitchen when she was baking almond cookies, but that's another story).
So at the extreme of better living through chemistry, it occurred to me that if the entourage effect is real, you should be able to take pure, synthetic THC (Marinol is an example I believe) and then add x percent myrcene and y percent pinene, etc. to just evenutally dial in the exact, desired effect.
At the very least, I find myself wondering what would happen if I just augmented my oil with 1%, 2%, x% myrcene.
Sorry, I know that's going off-topic and should go on another thread, but with all of this discussion of and effort toward preserving the natural balance of the volatiles (and my bud tender down at the Pot Stop shop telling me to eat mangoes when smoking weed to augment myrcene), I had to pose the question to people who are knowledgeable and interested in this subject.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
I'm totally on board with this hypothesis of what's happening to our terpenes. Building on this viable probability, if there's any possibility of preserving terpenes it appears we have no alternative other than performing the decarboxylation in a totally sealed container, which shouldn't present much of a problem. Our next hurdle, however, is determining actually what we have trapped and perhaps Scientific can help here. When terpene molecules are boiled off or evaporated, is it in the form of the intact molecule? In other words, beta-caryophyllene has a molecular formula of C15H24. Do you suppose it is boiled off in a still useable form or would the heat restructure it? Drawing from the fractional distillation process that is used for reclaiming terpene isolates, I'm of the opinion they are probably intact. The process is more complex than I can fully comprehend but since multiple substances are gathered in a single process, it stands to reason that the individual molecules would have to be intact. Help me out, scientific.