Gracias...No worries...and...Ummm...if Yer camping...Ya' shouldn't be checking in here...
...site addiction trumps all!......cheerz...h00k...
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction
Gracias...No worries...and...Ummm...if Yer camping...Ya' shouldn't be checking in here...
...site addiction trumps all!......cheerz...h00k...Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
OK. I was having trouble envisioning combining oil and all that water. But it must not be a problem. I will try it. Id like to have a coconut jolly rancher apple right now. lol How strong do you make them?
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
OK. I was having trouble envisioning combining oil and all that water. But it must not be a problem. I will try it. Id like to have a coconut jolly rancher apple right now. lol How strong do you make them?
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Hi all! I am almost ready to explain the results from beginning to end. Canyon and I are checking it over one step at a time. BUT FIRST, Would the person who was so kind as to donate with the initials PL please post so I can get your screen name. Or PM me.
I just landed back on the surface of the sun
Look for my recipe
Made em fairly strong. Oil and water mix, if ta keep mixing them...lol, that is the key
I may try my next ones with the flower strained from my FHO oil I made....mmmmmmm gummies
Hey Scorp...if you come across Yer' recipe...put it up...just decarbed 5 zips from last year...gonna start playing with my MBM...always looking for tried and tested recipes...cheerz...h00k...
FOUND It...
In my research I did use Coconut Oil and GDP bud in my 1st Batch, Grape Seed oil in the second with Kilimanjaro
I just kept mixing as I went along and seemed to do well.
Ingredients:
I used about 2.5t of infused Coconut Oil , think it was 5gr of Bud to 4oz of oil was my ratio.
(1) package of Jello 6oz size or (2) 3oz packages any flavor
(4) envelops of Knox Gelatin or (1) box usually 4 to a box.
(1/2) cup cold water
(2) grams of your Favorite Kief
(1) teaspoon of Canola oil or Canna Oil.
First you will need to Decarboxylize your Kief.
Preheat your Oven to 275 degrees and put your Kief in an Oven safe dish.
Heat your Kief for 10 minutes. Allow to cool.
Mix Kief with oil to make it able to be mixed in jello mixture, put aside.
In small sauce pan mix Jello and Gelatin in pot. Add water to make sugar mixture.
Put sauce pan on stove Medium Heat allow mixture to heat but not boil.
Stir in Kief oil. Continue stirring while heating watching for mixture just to start to thicken.
Remove from stove and quickly spoon into molds. stirring while pouring to keep Kief even in Mixture.
Put molds in Freezer for 10 Minutes... Pop them out and eat.
Place back in Refridgerator to keep fresh
I used parchment paper for the leftovers in my 1st run it was real easy, pour it out, then cut it up when set.
Those small molds are Tiny, I ended up getting JUMBO gummies and filled em 1/2 way, much easier to do
A bit off topic as it's not related to terpene retention...I'm just curious if anyone here has decarbed using steam. I don't mean in a pressure cooker, but something like suspending a mesh bag over boiling water in a pot with the lid on.
I ask because I want to use the harvested buds with (I know, I know) botrytis for canna lotion (no ingestion/inhalation but no wasting of THC). From a scientifically written if strangely named website, I have found that steam will kill botrytis but hot air is not effective at standard temperatures:
"Steaming with hot water vapor meets all general requirements. The high specific heat of water ensures high temperatures over a long period of time to achieve an effective and conservative sterilization. Other thermic methods such as the usage of hot air can only achieve similar results by applying extremely high temperatures of more than 2000°C or by longer time of exposure..."
I'm sure that everyone's first instinct is to say "toss it," but given the small size of my grows I would prefer to find a use for it that is both efficacious and safe.
I ask because I want to use the harvested buds with (I know, I know) botrytis for canna lotion (no ingestion/inhalation but no wasting of THC). From a scientifically written if strangely named website, I have found that steam will kill botrytis but hot air is not effective at standard temperatures:
"Steaming with hot water vapor meets all general requirements. The high specific heat of water ensures high temperatures over a long period of time to achieve an effective and conservative sterilization. Other thermic methods such as the usage of hot air can only achieve similar results by applying extremely high temperatures of more than 2000°C or by longer time of exposure..."
I'm sure that everyone's first instinct is to say "toss it," but given the small size of my grows I would prefer to find a use for it that is both efficacious and safe.
- Thread starter
- #388
This sounds very useful, IMO. I always look for ways to salvage a plant that's challenged. I'd use a deep stock pot to suspend it in. The tall cylinder would control the column of hot steam. I'd think silk or a stainless coffee filter would suffice as a container. You'd want lots of exposed surface.
Kicked my brain right into high gear InTheShed. Lol!
Decarb is a function of time and temperature. Somewhere there must be a chart that can tell you how long to heat at that temperature.
Thanks for the recommendation! Whatever holds the trim should be as flat-bottomed as possible to maximize the surface area.
Not sure how long I would need to decarb at 212°, as the SkunkPharm chart ends at 51 minutes and if you extrapolate where 212° is, it would be well beyond 51 minutes and looks like it might never get close to the conversion that 252° gives you.
Botrytis should be killed at 30 minutes according the link I found, so my guess is I would need to use the stock pot steam method and then do an oven decarb with the covered cookie sheet. That's the plan unless I can find a 212° chart somewhere!
I am keenly interested in this thread, everything I am learning is low and slow on the process of oils with a bubbler to excite the wash product to evaporate quicker, anyone else on this too?
Welcome to 420 rosek,
The idea is new to me. Is this something you can buy easily or something in the DIY category, maybe an air stone? It sounds like you have tried it more than once.
Could you walk us through your way of processing?
Thanks
Just ready to make a new batch, standard wash/2 quick with 100 pure alcohol. Then I have a chocolate warmer, with a fish tank bubbler to excite mixture as it evaporates. In a perfect world I will recover the alcohol -that is the next step for me to continue in perfecting the process of concentrate mj oil
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Are you ready folks??????
Just ready to make a new batch, standard wash/2 quick with 100 pure alcohol. Then I have a chocolate warmer, with a fish tank bubbler to excite mixture as it evaporates. In a perfect world I will recover the alcohol -that is the next step for me to continue in perfecting the process of concentrate mj oil
I confess, I thought you were referring to infused oil. It may have some merit there as well.
Alcohol absorbs water rather well. Have you noticed any water after the alcohol has evaporated? What temperature are you using?
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
NIGHTMARE ON CANYON'S STREET
Five buds walked into a bar....ok, no.
For now, I am only addressing the THC extraction. Terp tests are not back. Therefore, my numbers are only addressing THC & THCA and CBN (well, because).
Methodology
A 2g sample was generated by selecting several buds, breaking a piece off each to make a more uniform sample.
Lab Results for Buds
Note: Numbers will change slightly throughout due to testing limits and rounding. We are talking tenths here.
Lab tested Nightmare Cookies: 23% THCA, 0% THC (Canyon's the man)
After decarb expectation = 20% THC
Accounting for 9% moisture from a previous test brings the figure to 22.2%/g
This translates to a to an available 222mg/g of THC.
Decarboxylation Methodology
Nova Decarb Unit
Lab Results for Decarb
THC: 22%
THCA: 0.41% (1.8% not decarbed) Not bad really
Potential THC: 22.36% (THC+THCA x .88)
THC: 1118mg Available
2 Hr Extraction Methodology
58ml Coconut oil
5g decarbed bud
Stirring frequently
Crock pot
Lab Results 2 Hr Extraction
CBN: NOT Detected! 0.060% was shown after decarb
THC: 14.1mg/ml
THCA: 0.152mg/ml 0.166mg/g (Started at 4.1mg/g. Gained additional decarb of 3.9mg/g. Equates to 96% decarb of THCA while in the oil.
Dreggs (Spent Mtl) Methodology
Exactly the same as the extraction.
Apx 8ml oil trapped in the material. @ 14.25mg/ml = 112.8mg THC
Added 15ml clean carrier oil.
Total oil: Apx 23ml
Lab Results Dreggs (spent material)
CBN: NOT Detected! (0.060% was shown after decarb)
THC: 6.2mg/ml 6.8mg/g
THCA: Not Detected (0.152mg/ml was in extraction)
CBG: 0.22mg/ml (None before)
Conclusion
The 8ml of trapped oil had 112.8mg THC.
15mg fresh carrier had 0mg THC.
In the 23ml of oil a concentration was found to be 6.2mg/ml (112.8mg). This makes the THC 142.6mg. Subtracting the 112.8mg from the 8ml of trapped oil, reveals an additional 29mg was extracted. This suggests, since there is no CBN that a 4hr extraction may be better. Not much gain, but no trade off.
There was 2ml oil that got away, almost certainly post infusion. So, there's another apx. 12.4mg that was extracted. Consequently, the extraction rate was apx. 78% at best. (1118mg available -867.9mg extracted = 250.1mg (22%) presumably still in the material at this point. BTW, we would not have left this mystery but we didn't know the lab had the ability to test oil soaked material.
The stronger you make your oil, the bigger the problem with loss due to handling becomes. (Stirring utensils, pouring from one container to another, etc.) If we were shooting for 50mg/ml, we would have lost a whopping 100mg just from handling the oil. That would have been one hell of a Saturday night for someone! Keep in mind, I went to a great deal of trouble to keep the loss that low. The devil is always in the details! And that would be a whole course in itself.
Perhaps even 6 hr would be a better choice but I suspect there will be little gain and possibly some loss by then. I would like to point out that the oil had a decent flavor. No overpowering chlorophyll taste.
The answer to a more efficient extraction lies elsewhere IMHO. I think I am already on to the solution of running it up to apx 95%. Beyond that, I don't know. Oil will never be as efficient as say, Ethanol; probably due to viscosity. However, oil is SOOO much safer & cheaper for kitchen extractions. It's possible that the material could still be forced to give up the rest. I'm working on that too. Actually, I already know. But I'm looking to stay within the kitchen. That was the point of this particular exercise. Then there would be little to argue about.
Failures & Follow Ups
Due to an unfortunate malfunction of the tcheck device, we were unable to test whether additional extraction time would have helped. I know some of you do extremely long extracts with FHO. I have not seen any tests performed to validate those results. We were also unable to test whether a 2hr presoak in the carrier oil would have helped for the same reason. These were multiple tests that we wanted answers to but were counting on tcheck tests to verify. When the tcheck is replaced, I will check for the longer extraction time. Also, someone needs to test the spent mtl. If you do that, squeeze out all the oil you possibly can before testing.
So guys, there it is. Hope you all learned a little something. And on behalf of Canyon and myself, thank you to those who helped with the finance!
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
"NIGHTMARE ON CANYON’S STREET"
Ok guys, there is a lot to talk about with those numbers. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I got 2 surprises at least. But I don't want to put ideas in your head. I had rather hear fresh viewpoints. We are a long way from perfect on the extraction efficiency. The terpene tests will be back soon and that should add another layer. Then we have to talk about the FHO Canyon made. That was an eye opener for me.
Also, in my report I forgot to mention that since Canyon's oven was being temperamental, we did not get to compare the oven decarb to Nova. I really wanted to see that. Somebody needs to do it.
Ok guys, there is a lot to talk about with those numbers. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I got 2 surprises at least. But I don't want to put ideas in your head. I had rather hear fresh viewpoints. We are a long way from perfect on the extraction efficiency. The terpene tests will be back soon and that should add another layer. Then we have to talk about the FHO Canyon made. That was an eye opener for me.
Also, in my report I forgot to mention that since Canyon's oven was being temperamental, we did not get to compare the oven decarb to Nova. I really wanted to see that. Somebody needs to do it.
HealthFreak
Well-Known Member
Thank you again for all you guys have done ..
The terpene test are up.
This is from the original sample of flowers.
This is sample #4 from post 103
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention - Decarb to Extraction
This is from a flower sample of Extreme strain. We may be able to compare it with future tests.
This is from the original sample of flowers.
This is sample #4 from post 103
Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention - Decarb to Extraction
This is from a flower sample of Extreme strain. We may be able to compare it with future tests.