Colorful Sunset Sherbet Clones DWC

[HunterHunt]

HPS vs LED, Do you want bigger colas, denser nugs, and more light penetration? HPS all the way. You know my answer to this question. I'm not sponsored. LED's are good for vegging and trash for flowering. Do you want arm sized colas or bic lighter sized colas is the question. You can get a 600 watt HPS cool tube package for like $200 if you didnt want to mess with the old ballast.

Plants look super healthy. Good job. You have always hit the feeding great on your plants. No nute burn and super green. Keep it up.

 

[Jon]

HPS vs LED, Do you want bigger colas, denser nugs, and more light penetration? HPS all the way. You know my answer to this question. I'm not sponsored. LED's are good for vegging and trash for flowering. Do you want arm sized colas or bic lighter sized colas is the question. You can get a 600 watt HPS cool tube package for like $200 if you didnt want to mess with the old ballast.

Plants look super healthy. Good job. You have always hit the feeding great on your plants. No nute burn and super green. Keep it up.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of LEDs for flowering. But this is a 15 year old debate at this point. LEDs have come a long way. I'll put my non-sponsor light (my new one) that I am using in my photo tent up against your HPS on this very grow. I promise you I am not going to produce Bic lighter sized colas.

Just for fun....

 

[Bill284]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of LEDs for flowering. But this is a 15 year old debate at this point. LEDs have come a long way. I'll put my non-sponsor light (my new one) that I am using in my photo tent up against your HPS on this very grow. I promise you I am not going to produce Bic lighter sized colas.

Just for fun....

I absolutely loved my 1000w hps. I'd put it back in instantly if it weren't for heat and electricity costs. I'm sure there are LED,s that are equivalent, I just can't afford it. I'd love to see your competition though.

 

[Michael Hunt]

HPS vs LED, Do you want bigger colas, denser nugs, and more light penetration? HPS all the way. You know my answer to this question. I'm not sponsored. LED's are good for vegging and trash for flowering. Do you want arm sized colas or bic lighter sized colas is the question. You can get a 600 watt HPS cool tube package for like $200 if you didnt want to mess with the old ballast.

Plants look super healthy. Good job. You have always hit the feeding great on your plants. No nute burn and super green. Keep it up.

Thanks @HunterNitro i was hoping you would see this at some point and offer your opinion I just got very similar advice from our local hydro shop guy lol.

thanks man, for not having a tds meter over the last month or so i think doin pretty well

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of LEDs for flowering. But this is a 15 year old debate at this point. LEDs have come a long way. I'll put my non-sponsor light (my new one) that I am using in my photo tent up against your HPS on this very grow. I promise you I am not going to produce Bic lighter sized colas.

Just for fun....

I heard a very similar sentiment from our hydro shop owner who has a few decades of experience. Not knocking LED’s by any means i have one and am using it now. I guess i’ll see after this harvest

I absolutely loved my 1000w hps. I'd put it back in instantly if it weren't for heat and electricity costs. I'm sure there are LED,s that are equivalent, I just can't afford it. I'd love to see your competition though.

Hey @Bill284 im in the exact same boat. Ran a 1000w in the past and boy was it bright. I just cant justify an LED panel that would cost nearly the same as 4 1000w hps lamps with all the fixins. Our last crop was under this ts2000, and we’re switching to the 400w hps this evening to finish out the flower on this crop to compare. Same strain, same mother, sane medium, same nutrients, different lights for flower.

Going to post much more detailed updates from here on out.

 

[Jon]

I absolutely loved my 1000w hps. I'd put it back in instantly if it weren't for heat and electricity costs. I'm sure there are LED,s that are equivalent, I just can't afford it. I'd love to see your competition though.

Ha. Yeah I wasn't putting it out there as if I was throwing down the gauntlet or anything. Lol. I was just saying that it's not necessarily as cut and dried as it sounded when he said it. It was very tongue and cheek, as the only person I'm in competition with is myself. Lol.

 

[Red215rum]

Hey my opinion guys! There's always pro's and con's in mostly everything we do. I say this because were all human with minds who sometimes think alike but not most of the time because we all approach things differently. Yeah you might or might not get bigger colas using Hps who knows (Heres a little thought START A COMPARISON GROW SIDE BY SIDE HPS & LED on a budget journal huh) but I'm using leds and i dont have any complaints about them, you same money on Bill's and they get the job done in my opinion.. Forget bic size colas I'm past that! I still got two weeks till chop, im happy as long as it gets the job doneHAPPY GROWING GUYS!!!

 

[Michael Hunt]

Hey my opinion guys! There's always pro's and con's in mostly everything we do. I say this because were all human with minds who sometimes think alike but not most of the time because we all approach things differently. Yeah you might or might not get bigger colas using Hps who knows (Heres a little thought START A COMPARISON GROW SIDE BY SIDE HPS & LED on a budget journal huh) but I'm using leds and i dont have any complaints about them, you same money on Bill's and they get the job done in my opinion.. Forget bic size colas I'm past that! I still got two weeks till chop, im happy as long as it gets the job doneHAPPY GROWING GUYS!!!

Hey @Red215rum thank you for the input
For this argument im not so much worried about the electric bill as we’re talking about only adding 90w to the existing 310 the led pulls now. (Just citing what others have posted. I dont have an amp meter)

I did however download the Korona app as per @Jon suggestion earlier on in this journal. And after some fooling around last night i’ve got some numbers for you all.

~LED~
Location : in tent with reflective walls
Par reading at canopy height : 2300ish dead center
Lux reading same spot: 180000ish

~HPS~
Location: hanging in garage no reflective material at all.
par reading at canopy height : 2100ish
Lux reading at same spot: 171000ish

Obviously the reflective walls will have an effect, but how much is my big question before reworking the entire exhaust side of the tent and swapping out the LED.
Really wishing this ballast was a 600

 

[Jon]

Hey @Red215rum thank you for the input
For this argument im not so much worried about the electric bill as we’re talking about only adding 90w to the existing 310 the led pulls now. (Just citing what others have posted. I dont have an amp meter)

I did however download the Korona app as per @Jon suggestion earlier on in this journal. And after some fooling around last night i’ve got some numbers for you all.

~LED~
Location : in tent with reflective walls
Par reading at canopy height : 2300ish dead center
Lux reading same spot: 180000ish

~HPS~
Location: hanging in garage no reflective material at all.
par reading at canopy height : 2100ish
Lux reading at same spot: 171000ish

Obviously the reflective walls will have an effect, but how much is my big question before reworking the entire exhaust side of the tent and swapping out the LED.
Really wishing this ballast was a 600

Hey Michael, did you put the diffuser on your phone when you used the app? Cuz when I first used it I did it without the diffuser (just a piece of paper wrapped around the phone lenses) and I got numbers that were insanely high. I'm no expert but those LED numbers and those HPS numbers, at least to my limited understanding, are impossibly high to grow plants. You'd fry any plant in a day at those par numbers, if not from heat certainly from light intensity. I fried my plants a bit at numbers WAY lower than those. Once I did what the app told me to do in the first place and put the diffuser on, the lux/par numbers I was getting matched my par charts from the manufacturer to a T. Without the diffuser it's not accurate. Just asking. I can't even reference a grow light that puts out enough to give you 2300 par. Mine is amazing and puts out 1700 u/mols, and I can't get that high of par even if the phone and Korona app are touching the bulbs.

 

[Jon]

Hey @Red215rum thank you for the input
For this argument im not so much worried about the electric bill as we’re talking about only adding 90w to the existing 310 the led pulls now. (Just citing what others have posted. I dont have an amp meter)

I did however download the Korona app as per @Jon suggestion earlier on in this journal. And after some fooling around last night i’ve got some numbers for you all.

~LED~
Location : in tent with reflective walls
Par reading at canopy height : 2300ish dead center
Lux reading same spot: 180000ish

~HPS~
Location: hanging in garage no reflective material at all.
par reading at canopy height : 2100ish
Lux reading at same spot: 171000ish

Obviously the reflective walls will have an effect, but how much is my big question before reworking the entire exhaust side of the tent and swapping out the LED.
Really wishing this ballast was a 600

I mean, you figure even if you ran a CO2 system, you'd probably never bud at more than maybe 1400 ish par...you see I mean?

 

[Michael Hunt]

Hey Michael, did you put the diffuser on your phone when you used the app? Cuz when I first used it I did it without the diffuser (just a piece of paper wrapped around the phone lenses) and I got numbers that were insanely high. I'm no expert but those LED numbers and those HPS numbers, at least to my limited understanding, are impossibly high to grow plants. You'd fry any plant in a day at those par numbers, if not from heat certainly from light intensity. I fried my plants a bit at numbers WAY lower than those. Once I did what the app told me to do in the first place and put the diffuser on, the lux/par numbers I was getting matched my par charts from the manufacturer to a T. Without the diffuser it's not accurate. Just asking. I can't even reference a grow light that puts out enough to give you 2300 par. Mine is amazing and puts out 1700 u/mols, and I can't get that high of par even if the phone and Korona app are touching the bulbs.

I made a little paper tube to slip right over the end of the phone as a diffuser. Its not tight against it though so i don't know if that matters. Also the canopy is maybe 8” from the boards at the shortest tops. Closer at a few of the taller ones. Never had an issue other than some real minor bleaching.

I mean, you figure even if you ran a CO2 system, you'd probably never bud at more than maybe 1400 ish par...you see I mean?

I see what you mean, but ive had buds that literally rub the diodes on this light. I‘ll shoot a pic of the resin left behind in that spot on the board when the grow is finished. Never used any CO2 enrichment of any kind.

 

[Jon]

I made a little paper tube to slip right over the end of the phone as a diffuser. Its not tight against it though so i don't know if that matters. Also the canopy is maybe 8” from the boards at the shortest tops. Closer at a few of the taller ones. Never had an issue other than some real minor bleaching.

I see what you mean, but ive had buds that literally rub the diodes on this light. I‘ll shoot a pic of the resin left behind in that spot on the board when the grow is finished. Never used any CO2 enrichment of any kind.

All I'm saying is I doubt that's at +2000 par. I'd check the diffuser. I cut a two inch wide strip of paper and taped it tightly around the phone. Tight wrap. I'd at least try that and see if you get a difference in your readings. There is no universe where 2000 par wouldn't fry a bud in a matter of hours. Or if I'm wrong and there is, I want to go there and I want the light that can produce it.

 

[Michael Hunt]

Oh i’m not particularly concerned with the actual numbers lol. Im just trying to figure out which light is brighter. I’ll try taping the paper down tonight when the light comes on and report back.

 

[Jon]

Oh i’m not particularly concerned with the actual numbers lol. Im just trying to figure out which light is brighter. I’ll try taping the paper down tonight when the light comes on and report back.

Ah, gotcha. Just didn't want you to experience what I just did.

 

[Michael Hunt]

So i’ve been reading a bit and keep seeing that reflective walls can increase lighting values for the plant by up to 30%. If that is in fact true, that would stack the hps at being slightly brighter than the LED.

I guess i could always pull the led out and test them both side by side with no walls to see the real difference

 

[Jon]

So i’ve been reading a bit and keep seeing that reflective walls can increase lighting values for the plant by up to 30%. If that is in fact true, that would stack the hps at being slightly brighter than the LED.

I guess i could always pull the led out and test them both side by side with no walls to see the real difference

So you have a brightness winner. How do the spectrums compare?

 

[Michael Hunt]

So you have a brightness winner. How do the spectrums compare?

The hps is super red. Like 2000K red lol. Also just tried a brand new xtra sun bulb and got even higher numbers at 8”. 2614 u/mol where the led was 2437 this time at 8” with my paper diffuser taped tight

 

[Michael Hunt]

Big update.

So the reservoir is rounding the bend for its week 4 bloom change. Going to up the cool bloom just a tad to push them along. They’re always hungry if we keep the ph stable so eat up big ladies.

PH: 6.0
Ppm: 1200 (grabbed a cheap pen so who knows how accurate that it)
water temps are still sitting between 65-67*f
Air temps are 69* light on and 63* light off on average.
The PAR reading under the TS2000 at the canopy height of 8” over the shortest plant was 2437 u/mol. The taller tops are as close as 5” to the light and she’s up as high as it will go.

And now for the “new” light. Ive done quite a bit of testing with our Korona app. And i think we are going to swap out the lights in the next couple days. The readings under the HPS with the xtra sun bulb were 2614u/mol hung out in the garage. no reflective material around it other than the reflector and taken at the same canopy height of 8”. So i’d imagine the number will be higher in the tent with reflective walls. The AC hood should keep the temps under control still. It is only a 400w after all.

This 400w bulb looks so dinky in the reflector.

thats all for now. Water change tomorrow night and depending on how long that takes, the lights may get switched as well.

Happy Sunday everyone!

 

[Jon]

The hps is super red. Like 2000K red lol. Also just tried a brand new xtra sun bulb and got even higher numbers at 8”. 2614 u/mol where the led was 2437 this time at 8” with my paper diffuser taped tight

Wow. That's insane.

 

[Jon]

Big update.

So the reservoir is rounding the bend for its week 4 bloom change. Going to up the cool bloom just a tad to push them along. They’re always hungry if we keep the ph stable so eat up big ladies.

PH: 6.0
Ppm: 1200 (grabbed a cheap pen so who knows how accurate that it)
water temps are still sitting between 65-67*f
Air temps are 69* light on and 63* light off on average.
The PAR reading under the TS2000 at the canopy height of 8” over the shortest plant was 2437 u/mol. The taller tops are as close as 5” to the light and she’s up as high as it will go.

And now for the “new” light. Ive done quite a bit of testing with our Korona app. And i think we are going to swap out the lights in the next couple days. The readings under the HPS with the xtra sun bulb were 2614u/mol hung out in the garage. no reflective material around it other than the reflector and taken at the same canopy height of 8”. So i’d imagine the number will be higher in the tent with reflective walls. The AC hood should keep the temps under control still. It is only a 400w after all.

This 400w bulb looks so dinky in the reflector.

thats all for now. Water change tomorrow night and depending on how long that takes, the lights may get switched as well.

Happy Sunday everyone!

Wow. Your canopy is so perfect. Those plants are all stretching almost exactly the same way. Is that what happens when you grow a scrog from the same clones? If so that's definitely the way to go. It never occurred to me that clones will behave exactly the same way, including the stretch. That's it! Right? I have ACCESS to clones. Damn. Next time. These pictures also let me know that trying to get an even scrog from three different strains as I am is going to begin to be a big challenge shortly. Good to know. Also - do what you will man, but those plants look so far beyond perfect that I would think hard about changing out the light midstream. There will be an adjustment period on the part of the plants, right? I don't know how you could have a nicer, more even canopy, man, super impressive. I'll be real curious to see what you do and how they respond. Might this possibly be a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it situation?" I don't know I'm asking for education.

 

[Michael Hunt]

Wow. Your canopy is so perfect. Those plants are all stretching almost exactly the same way. Is that what happens when you grow a scrog from the same clones? If so that's definitely the way to go. It never occurred to me that clones will behave exactly the same way, including the stretch. That's it! Right? I have ACCESS to clones. Damn. Next time. These pictures also let me know that trying to get an even scrog from three different strains as I am is going to begin to be a big challenge shortly. Good to know. Also - do what you will man, but those plants look so far beyond perfect that I would think hard about changing out the light midstream. There will be an adjustment period on the part of the plants, right? I don't know how you could have a nicer, more even canopy, man, super impressive. I'll be real curious to see what you do and how they respond. Might this possibly be a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it situation?" I don't know I'm asking for education.

Thanks @Jon you are too kind man
As long as your clones all came from the same mother, they should all act exactly the same when it comes to stretching, structure and even flower times. Provided none of them get stunted separately from the others along the way. You could still get an even scrog out of different strains. It’ll just take a little more careful training which im sure you’re up for from what i’ve seen in your journal so far

Our first grow in this tent we switched from a 90w blurple to this 310w full spec led without any recovery time at all. They pretty much improved overnight with that change. So im hoping this one will result the same. But now you’ve got me thinking about it lol I highly recommend trying a dwc bucket some time in your future growing plans. If you can keep the numbers happy i think it will blow your mind.

I’ve been told twice now that hps penetrates the canopy better. Not on here, but from two shop different shop owners with very little skin in the game since i already own most of the stuff for this hps setup.

unfortunately we do have some tops that never quite found there way to the surface of the canopy. Maybe some of the extra light getting through the canopy will help them out. Which is where this idea for this change is being born from. And if the other tops end up fatter and stickier from it, even slightly, is a step in the right direction.