Nice informational video Celt, thanks! Beauties out there in the sun!
Celt’s 2020 Grows
- Thread starter The Celt
- Start date
Amazing plants you are growing in the valley Celt. All winners!
Take them up on it no doubt!
Excellent points. You should write it out and post it here so we can link others to it when the subject comes up.
Seriously
Take them up on it no doubt!StRoostifer
Member
Thanks for the tour update of your garden Celt! Everything looks so tasty! And thank you for taking the time to explain the differences between the two plants that have yellowing older leaves! 
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- #344
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Morning all, have something I want to show you outdoor growers, not much of a concern for indoor growing.
A while back, I mentioned and showed pictures of the Corn Borer worm that likes our plants as well and bores into the stem and damages the plant from the inside out. After finding them in the big Cluster Bomb and having amputated the affected limbs, I was hoping that would be the end of it. As it turns out, they have 2 and sometimes 3 hatches a season and there was one recently.
I amputated 2 buds that size and then gave the plant a thorough inspection and found quite a few more sites where they had took up residency. The other sites were not tight to the bud like the ones I removed, so I split the stem and skewered the little bastards. Keep an eye out for leaves dying for no reason and check the nodes for piles of crap (looks like fine sawdust). I have no doubt that these little bastards are the reason behind the odd time I have had bud rot as I have often found a worm in the rotted bud.
A while back, I mentioned and showed pictures of the Corn Borer worm that likes our plants as well and bores into the stem and damages the plant from the inside out. After finding them in the big Cluster Bomb and having amputated the affected limbs, I was hoping that would be the end of it. As it turns out, they have 2 and sometimes 3 hatches a season and there was one recently.
I amputated 2 buds that size and then gave the plant a thorough inspection and found quite a few more sites where they had took up residency. The other sites were not tight to the bud like the ones I removed, so I split the stem and skewered the little bastards. Keep an eye out for leaves dying for no reason and check the nodes for piles of crap (looks like fine sawdust). I have no doubt that these little bastards are the reason behind the odd time I have had bud rot as I have often found a worm in the rotted bud.
- Thread starter
- #345
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Next, as per Shed’s suggestion, here is the info about leaf fade in bloom, put into text and pictures rather than the video of my garden.
There are a number of reasons for leaf fade in mid and late bloom. When I refer to leaf fade, I am not referring to this:
that is genetic colouring due to late bloom, much like fall colouring of tree leaves.
Rather, I am referring to this:
and this:
These 2 example have entirely different causes, but the same effect and the same mechanism behind the fade which I will explain as we continue.
In the first picture, we have 2 plants of the same strain (Blue Dream) and same batch of seed. They are the same age, been given the same feed, throughout their life, and the same strength. Here they are again from a different vantage point so you can see the entire of both plants.
The only difference is in the pot size they were grown in. So why does the plant on the right have leaf fade and not the one on the left? My best guess, which I will look into after harvest, is pot size. During vegetation, same for both plants remember, she maxed out her root mass in the available space. Now that she is in full bloom, her root mass is barely able to supply the needs of the fast growing bud and is starting to cannibalize the older leaves that have been there since before flowering started. If you look again at the girl on the left, 3X bigger pot, she has no leaf fade.
In case you are thinking “but that’s just comparing 2 plants, it could be coincidence”, I have 2 in 14 gallon totes and 3 in 5 gallon buckets. All the same strain and from the same seed stock. All of the 5 gallon girls are showing leaf fade and neither of the 14 gallon girls are.
The second example of leaf fade is actually due to some bad damage and severe stress a few weeks ago. See picture below:
About a month or so ago, I found Corn Borer damage at this point and split the stem to extract the offender. Not long after that, wind pulled her tie back loose and she started to stand upright again, so I put another tie back on her but wasn’t paying attention and hooked her directly opposite the split stem which started to break her stalk. When I realized, I moved the hook and splinted her to support her weakened stem. If you have another look at the first picture of her, all her leaf fade is above this point.
The mechanism for fade in both cases is due to survival.
In the first case, as the root mass is not able to (or just barely able to) support the mass above ground, it requires less energy to cannibalize the older less useful leaves than to draw the nutrients from the soil.
In the second case, due to her compromised main stem, and restricting the flow of vital nutrients, she cannibalized the larger older leaves while she healed.
Ole Mother Nature knew what she was doing when she incorporated “survival instinct” into the genetic makeup of plants, animals and even us. Anytime there is a chance in nature for growth while at the same time conserving energy, organisms will jump at that chance. Even apex predators will scavenge a free meal rather than hunt for it.
There are a number of reasons for leaf fade in mid and late bloom. When I refer to leaf fade, I am not referring to this:
that is genetic colouring due to late bloom, much like fall colouring of tree leaves.
Rather, I am referring to this:
and this:
These 2 example have entirely different causes, but the same effect and the same mechanism behind the fade which I will explain as we continue.
In the first picture, we have 2 plants of the same strain (Blue Dream) and same batch of seed. They are the same age, been given the same feed, throughout their life, and the same strength. Here they are again from a different vantage point so you can see the entire of both plants.
The only difference is in the pot size they were grown in. So why does the plant on the right have leaf fade and not the one on the left? My best guess, which I will look into after harvest, is pot size. During vegetation, same for both plants remember, she maxed out her root mass in the available space. Now that she is in full bloom, her root mass is barely able to supply the needs of the fast growing bud and is starting to cannibalize the older leaves that have been there since before flowering started. If you look again at the girl on the left, 3X bigger pot, she has no leaf fade.
In case you are thinking “but that’s just comparing 2 plants, it could be coincidence”, I have 2 in 14 gallon totes and 3 in 5 gallon buckets. All the same strain and from the same seed stock. All of the 5 gallon girls are showing leaf fade and neither of the 14 gallon girls are.
The second example of leaf fade is actually due to some bad damage and severe stress a few weeks ago. See picture below:
About a month or so ago, I found Corn Borer damage at this point and split the stem to extract the offender. Not long after that, wind pulled her tie back loose and she started to stand upright again, so I put another tie back on her but wasn’t paying attention and hooked her directly opposite the split stem which started to break her stalk. When I realized, I moved the hook and splinted her to support her weakened stem. If you have another look at the first picture of her, all her leaf fade is above this point.
The mechanism for fade in both cases is due to survival.
In the first case, as the root mass is not able to (or just barely able to) support the mass above ground, it requires less energy to cannibalize the older less useful leaves than to draw the nutrients from the soil.
In the second case, due to her compromised main stem, and restricting the flow of vital nutrients, she cannibalized the larger older leaves while she healed.
Ole Mother Nature knew what she was doing when she incorporated “survival instinct” into the genetic makeup of plants, animals and even us. Anytime there is a chance in nature for growth while at the same time conserving energy, organisms will jump at that chance. Even apex predators will scavenge a free meal rather than hunt for it.
Konks Dirt Empire
Well-Known Member
I started at you video @The Celt, so much information! 
Sorry to hear those little ba$tards are back, damn.
Sorry to hear those little ba$tards are back, damn.
Thanks for all that Celt! Looking good!
Sorry about the new discovery 
. On the bright side, you saved about 10 minutes of trimming time!
. On the bright side, you saved about 10 minutes of trimming time!Bookmarked.
- Thread starter
- #349
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Morning all, after my discussion a few days ago concerning leaf fade and yesterday checking plants, another thought struck me in regards to the flowering stage of the girls, in particular, the 5 gallon bucket girls.
This morning while watching the sun come up and having gone out to feed the MC girls, I decided to look at what conditions might be responsible for the differing stages of flower given that there are 9 Blue Dream and 2 Cluster Bomb. Some of the difference can be attributed to phenotype, but not to the extent I am seeing, as I have only come across 3 phenotypes of Blue Dream.
The 4 BD in the garden, I believe I can assume are phenotype differences, maybe, so I am not considering those 4 in my analysis. So that leaves 5 BD, 2 in 14gal totes, and 3 in 5 gallon buckets, 1 CB in a 20 gallon tote and one in a 5 gallon bucket all being fed Mega Crop at the same concentration, so I can rule out feed as a cause.
Next up, even though most would probably not consider, but because I want to explore all possible reasons, is light quality. Now you would think that being under the sun, being in relatively close proximity, given we as a group grow all over the world, my plants would experience relatively the same quality of light, as I assumed prior to this morning.
Sun up today was 7am here, but not all my plants see sun up at the same time as can be seen in this picture taken @ 8:30am, an hour and a half after sun rise.
As can be seen, only the 2 closest to the house, are seeing the sun at this time. Also, if you look at the 1st picture, you can see a big Horse Chestnut tree to the left, which is south of the other 5 MC plants and shades them for a time mid afternoon. If you have not studied plant physiology and light quality in regards to daylength plants, you might wonder “what difference does that make”.
Without getting technical, day length plants have a “switch” that tells them how long the day is and when to start flowering. That switch is controlled (for lack of a better word) by light. In particular the ratio between red and far red light. When the far red levels exceed the red, the switch is flipped and flowering begins. When light is filtered down through other vegetation, that vegetation absorbs the red but allows far red to filter through, and any plant in the shade will receive more far red than red light causing the switch to flip before a plant in full sun all day.
So this is one reason that those 5 girls are ahead in flower, compared to the 2 near the house, but I don’t think that is the only reason, I believe there is more going on here.
This led me to consider if there is anything else involved, which in turn, led me back to the leaf fade and pot size. Consider these 2 plants, both Cluster Bomb, both getting the same feed, the only difference being light quality and pot size.
The first is the big girl in a 20 gallon tote, the second is in a 5 gallon bucket, which went in the bucket a full month later than the big girl. There is 2, maybe even 3 weeks difference in the stage of flower, some of which can be attributed to light quality, but not that much difference I don’t believe.
My thinking is that pot size also plays a major factor in this. As a mentioned previously, she has likely maxed out her root mass, and survival instinct tells her that the days are getting shorter, you have not much more room for roots and vegetative growth, better start flowering.
I may be wrong, but that is how this old Mountain Man’s mind works
This morning while watching the sun come up and having gone out to feed the MC girls, I decided to look at what conditions might be responsible for the differing stages of flower given that there are 9 Blue Dream and 2 Cluster Bomb. Some of the difference can be attributed to phenotype, but not to the extent I am seeing, as I have only come across 3 phenotypes of Blue Dream.
The 4 BD in the garden, I believe I can assume are phenotype differences, maybe, so I am not considering those 4 in my analysis. So that leaves 5 BD, 2 in 14gal totes, and 3 in 5 gallon buckets, 1 CB in a 20 gallon tote and one in a 5 gallon bucket all being fed Mega Crop at the same concentration, so I can rule out feed as a cause.
Next up, even though most would probably not consider, but because I want to explore all possible reasons, is light quality. Now you would think that being under the sun, being in relatively close proximity, given we as a group grow all over the world, my plants would experience relatively the same quality of light, as I assumed prior to this morning.
Sun up today was 7am here, but not all my plants see sun up at the same time as can be seen in this picture taken @ 8:30am, an hour and a half after sun rise.
As can be seen, only the 2 closest to the house, are seeing the sun at this time. Also, if you look at the 1st picture, you can see a big Horse Chestnut tree to the left, which is south of the other 5 MC plants and shades them for a time mid afternoon. If you have not studied plant physiology and light quality in regards to daylength plants, you might wonder “what difference does that make”.
Without getting technical, day length plants have a “switch” that tells them how long the day is and when to start flowering. That switch is controlled (for lack of a better word) by light. In particular the ratio between red and far red light. When the far red levels exceed the red, the switch is flipped and flowering begins. When light is filtered down through other vegetation, that vegetation absorbs the red but allows far red to filter through, and any plant in the shade will receive more far red than red light causing the switch to flip before a plant in full sun all day.
So this is one reason that those 5 girls are ahead in flower, compared to the 2 near the house, but I don’t think that is the only reason, I believe there is more going on here.
This led me to consider if there is anything else involved, which in turn, led me back to the leaf fade and pot size. Consider these 2 plants, both Cluster Bomb, both getting the same feed, the only difference being light quality and pot size.
The first is the big girl in a 20 gallon tote, the second is in a 5 gallon bucket, which went in the bucket a full month later than the big girl. There is 2, maybe even 3 weeks difference in the stage of flower, some of which can be attributed to light quality, but not that much difference I don’t believe.
My thinking is that pot size also plays a major factor in this. As a mentioned previously, she has likely maxed out her root mass, and survival instinct tells her that the days are getting shorter, you have not much more room for roots and vegetative growth, better start flowering.
I may be wrong, but that is how this old Mountain Man’s mind works
Way to get outside and look in Celt! Thanks for you sensible thought process.
StRoostifer
Member
I think everything you say makes sense Celt and agree with you. I’ve noticed that the more roots I have growing outside the medium on the sides of the containers, the more issues I have. Then there’s the Teddy Nugent Strangle Hold the roots put on the grow medium and contracting the hell out of it after the plants have been in there for a while. The four plants I am flowering now are going through this. The roots have such a strangle hold that even after watering there is still a gap between the root mass and the side of the container.
And they said air pots would alleviate this problem
And they said air pots would alleviate this problem
- Thread starter
- #352
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Hi Roosti, I’ve always thought that bigger pots minimize issues, and this year having been off most of the year, I’ve had lots of time to observe and study the girls. As well, this year has been an exceptional year here for growing meaning changes happen quickly 
This has led me to confirm my suspicions regarding pot size although it’s doubtful I will use containers in my outside grows again, too much work I will however amend and expand the garden so I can try growing monsters in it next year 
This has led me to confirm my suspicions regarding pot size although it’s doubtful I will use containers in my outside grows again, too much work
I will however amend and expand the garden so I can try growing monsters in it next year - Thread starter
- #353
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Well, this is off topic, but gotta share anyway.
While I was writing that last post, Krista decided to make herself a poached egg, in the microwave just like she has done a hundred times before. Well, this time, no idea why, it exploded
While I was writing that last post, Krista decided to make herself a poached egg, in the microwave just like she has done a hundred times before. Well, this time, no idea why, it exploded
StRoostifer
Member
I used to think the 10 gallon pots I’m using was big, now I’m not sure 15 is big enough for a long veg + flower. Even inside lol.Hi Roosti, I’ve always thought that bigger pots minimize issues, and this year having been off most of the year, I’ve had lots of time to observe and study the girls. As well, this year has been an exceptional year here for growing meaning changes happen quickly
This has led me to confirm my suspicions regarding pot size although it’s doubtful I will use containers in my outside grows again, too much work
It just might come down to that roots prefer to be surrounded by a grow medium and not dirt track racing around the outside of the container.
Haha, I did that with a spaghetti squash, forgot the vent and it blew the door open!Well, this is off topic, but gotta share anyway.
While I was writing that last post, Krista decided to make herself a poached egg, in the microwave just like she has done a hundred times before. Well, this time, no idea why, it exploded
DutchinAB
Well-Known Member
Dang, hopes she’s okay.
Thermal expansion is no joke, microwaves and hot water tanks are like bombs we accept to be in our homes lol.
Did she still get her poached egg!?
Thermal expansion is no joke, microwaves and hot water tanks are like bombs we accept to be in our homes lol.
Did she still get her poached egg!?
- Thread starter
- #357
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Hey DAB, ya she got it but I had to get it for her, hot water everywhere lol
Love the thought process Celt. It helps explain a lot in what I see in the backyard gardens around me although not everyone has a green thumb, so there is that as well. You are right about a great growing season around here this year. Gonna be a bumper crop for all. Hope you can protect your garden this week because Teddy may be a real bitch. I was working out near Hantsport last week and saw that there is a big push to get the apples in before this storm knocks them all to the ground. Then again some hard cider sounds good to me. Looks like a bumper crop there as well even though I had thought that a late frost had killed a lot of the buds last spring. Good luck with the upcoming blow.
CADBOY
Well-Known Member
Well, this is off topic, but gotta share anyway.
While I was writing that last post, Krista decided to make herself a poached egg, in the microwave just like she has done a hundred times before. Well, this time, no idea why, it exploded
Lmao I bet she didn't have enough water in that bowl. I've seen people do this alot in restaurant kitchens hahah. Does it ever make a mess and its seriously loud. 1 guy blew the door open on the microwave and damaged the door trim lol
- Thread starter
- #360
The Celt
Well-Known Member
Morning CB and Joe
I’ve been keeping a wading eye on Teddy. I was in Truro when Juan went through so know first hand the damage a C2 hurricane passing over can do. Most of the bigger girls have some sort of support already, mostly cages. The 5 gallon girls I will just move into the old garage and hope it doesn’t collapse wind being my biggest concern.
Now for the troubling news.
If that was trichomes, I would be ecstatic, but sadly, that is frost.
Temps dropped much lower over night than predicted and we had a pretty heavy frost, early for here, especially being as heavy as it was. Hopefully, not much damage occurred and this just brings out some colour and put the girls survival instinct into overdrive fingers crossed.
I will, today, get some burlap and start covering them at night if I think there is even the remote possibly of frost. These girls have done so well up to this point, I would hate to have issues this close to the finish line
Picture of the garden with the girls looking like something out of the movie Frozen
I’ve been keeping a wading eye on Teddy. I was in Truro when Juan went through so know first hand the damage a C2 hurricane passing over can do. Most of the bigger girls have some sort of support already, mostly cages. The 5 gallon girls I will just move into the old garage and hope it doesn’t collapse
wind being my biggest concern.Now for the troubling news.
If that was trichomes, I would be ecstatic, but sadly, that is frost.
Temps dropped much lower over night than predicted and we had a pretty heavy frost, early for here, especially being as heavy as it was. Hopefully, not much damage occurred and this just brings out some colour and put the girls survival instinct into overdrive
fingers crossed.I will, today, get some burlap and start covering them at night if I think there is even the remote possibly of frost. These girls have done so well up to this point, I would hate to have issues this close to the finish line
Picture of the garden with the girls looking like something out of the movie Frozen