Cbdhemp808's Comparison Grow - HI-BISCUS SIP Bucket Vs. Nursery Pot

[cbdhemp808]

I think it's time for the SIP and POT to get a top watering of 1 gal each of water mixed with horsetail tea and fresh aloe juice. They also need another spray of neem/Bronner's cuz I'm seeing what looks sorta like a bit of leaf miner, mostly on the leaves of the SIP plant. I'll add some drops of orange oil as well.

I top watered with the tea and gave them a spray.

Horsetail tea (left) and aloe juice (right). Adds up to about 1/2 gal. I added this to 1-1/2 gal of water and top-watered both plants with 1 gal.

 

[cbdhemp808]

DAY 26

The plants are looking good. Nursery POT plant is looking a bit better than SIP plant... leaves are a slightly darker green.

DAY 24: HEIGHT... SIP - 31.75", POT - 32.50", Δ -0.75
DAY 26: HEIGHT... SIP - 32.00", POT - 33.50", Δ -1.50

The SIP rez was empty prior to top watering the 1 gal tea. Now rez level is about 2-1/4".

comparison_grow1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Oct 16, 2024

comparison_grow2.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Oct 16, 2024

SIP_vs_nursery_pot1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Oct 16, 2024

 

[Bode]

Highya CBD dude,

I have a question - One pot is on a riser (wood) and the other isn't? Is that a concrete floor? Cold floor will influence the temp of the growing medium. Just thought I'd bring it up. I don't see anything wrong with your grow, but the SIP plant should have more biomass than the other one. Happy Smokin'

 

[cbdhemp808]

Highya CBD dude,

I have a question - One pot is on a riser (wood) and the other isn't? Is that a concrete floor? Cold floor will influence the temp of the growing medium. Just thought I'd bring it up. I don't see anything wrong with your grow, but the SIP plant should have more biomass than the other one. Happy Smokin'

The ground is dirt and I just put the wood under the nursery pot to raise it up to about the same level as the SIP, just for the visuals when comparing by eye. We have warm temps here... no concern about cold medium. Yes, in theory the SIP plant should overtake the other plant... at some point!

 

[cbdhemp808]

DAY 30

The plants are looking hungry. New growth is slightly yellow.

DAY 26: HEIGHT... SIP - 32.00", POT - 33.50", Δ -1.50
DAY 30: HEIGHT... SIP - 33.00", POT - 34.00", Δ -1.00

The SIP rez level is at 1/2". The SIP plant has only grown 1" in the last 4 days. The POT plant only 1/2".

I think it's time to feed, but both containers are heavy, so I'm going to let them dry some before fertigating. I think a top feeding is in order once they have dried.

comparison_grow_POT.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Sunday at 3:43 PM

comparison_grow_SIP.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Sunday at 3:43 PM

comparison_grow_SIP_side1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Sunday at 3:43 PM

comparison_grow_POT_side1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Sunday at 3:43 PM

comparison_grow_SIP_top1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Sunday at 3:43 PM

comparison_grow_POT_top1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Sunday at 3:43 PM

 

[Fenderbender]

What's this voodoo, we'll see when the food gets introduced.
As for now both had the same medium and with one just have constant access to water.. but it's not like she got access to more nutrients, she will probably just go through the soil faster why she's maybe worse.

 

[cbdhemp808]

What's this voodoo, we'll see when the food gets introduced.
As for now both had the same medium and with one just have constant access to water.. but it's not like she got access to more nutrients, she will probably just go through the soil faster why she's maybe worse.

Right? Yes, the SIP plant appears slightly more deficient, and slightly shorter. Both plants are showing similar purple stems toward the top of the plant... dunno if this is Mg related.

 

[cbdhemp808]

In terms of when to flip... I'm not sure, but I'm thinking around 3-1/2 ft tall (42")... a foot taller than they are now. I'm guessing that will take 10 days or less, so around Oct. 20th (DAY 30). This will be a distinct departure from my usual (lazy) routine of allowing the plants to get quite tall in veg. Hopefully this will give the plants more energy for flowering, meaning bigger colas and more resin.

This is what I said 10 days ago... it didn't age well! At that point, the SIP plant was at 29-1/2" tall. It's now at 33", so it only grew 3.5" in 10 days. I had predicted 12.5". I think the SIP plant started to become low on nutrients about 15 days ago at DAY 15. (Both plants did.) At DAY 13, leaves were still dark green. By DAY 16 they were noticeably lighter green. The SIP plant had grown 2" in 3 days. The SIP plant's leaves were slightly lighter green than the POT plant's leaves.

It appears the SIP plant used up its nutrients slightly faster that the POT plant, but didn't grow taller than the POT plant. This is strange. I watered the SIP 8 times. 6 of those times were top watering. One would think the SIP plant would have more nutrients available than the POT plant, because any flushed out nutrients would wind up in the reservoir.

One explanation is that there simply wasn't any significant flushing of nutrients taking place in the SIP. I.e. it just wasn't top watered enough times and in sufficient amounts to cause any flushing.

The only other explanation I can think of is that the SIP's medium was more saturated for longer periods, due to wicking from the reservoir. This may have diminished absorption of nutrients. Had I started fertigating 15 days ago, the SIP reservoir would have retained nutrients, and perhaps the SIP plant would have grown more than the POT plant.

Regardless, both SIP and POT plant are now looking similar in terms of plant size and leaf color. Both have overall faded leaf color (SIP a bit more), both have new growth that's a lighter shade of green, and both have purple petioles (leaf stems) at the top of the plant (possible Mg deficiency).

I think this outcome means that a SIP can't out-compete a normal nursery POT unless fertigation is happening, or unless the POT isn't getting enough water (whereas the SIP is).

I'm a bit surprised that the super soil (~4 gal) started to be depleted in just 2 weeks. At planting, the plants were 17" tall. In 2 weeks they were at 26" tall, so almost 10 inches gained. So, the first 2 weeks produced 10" of growth, while the second 2 weeks produced 3" of growth. I should have started fertigating at 2 weeks in veg... live and learn!

SIP_planting_to_2weeks.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Monday at 4:51 AM

Now we'll see what happens with fertigation. I'll probably start that on Wednesday.

 

[Bode]

Purple petioles are a sign of phosphorus deficiency. Happy Smokin'

 

[cbdhemp808]

Purple petioles are a sign of phosphorus deficiency. Happy Smokin'

Mg as well. I would guess Mg since they're only 30 days in veg. My supersoil has a good amount of P in it.

...Or it could just be genetic.

 

[cbdhemp808]

DAY 32

The plants are going through a dry cycle in preparation for feeding.

DAY 30: HEIGHT... SIP - 33.00", POT - 34.00", Δ -1.00
DAY 32: HEIGHT... SIP - 33.00", POT - 35.00", Δ -2.00

The SIP rez is empty. The SIP plant has not grown in the last 2 days. The POT plant has grown 1".

Weight: SIP - 30.9 lb, POT 25.6 lb

The POT is at its baseline weight of 25.7 lb, which was the planting weight plus 1 qt water. I will go ahead now and top-fertigate the POT to runoff... probably 1 gal will do... maybe 1.5 gal.

The SIP is heavy. The baseline weight for the SIP is 26.6 lb, so the SIP is 4.3 lb above baseline, meaning it contains 1/2 gal water (beyond the baseline 1 qt of water). I'll let it dry out some more today and check again tomorrow. She's very hungry and not drinking very fast.

comparison_grow_DAY32.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Yesterday at 4:45 PM

SIP on left, nursery POT on right.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Some thoughts on SIPs, soil, watering, and fertigation...

I realized today that the 5 gal SIP bucket should have another drain hole, right at the very bottom of the side wall of the bucket, that can be plugged with a cork or rubber plug. Why? Because in the first 2 weeks, before fertigation, there's no benefit from having water sitting in the reservoir, so it should be able to drain out. It is indeed beneficial to top water until runoff, but this grow showed that having 2" of water (or more) in the reservoir didn't help the growth of the plant (as compared to the nursery pot with no reservoir).

Another way to say this... the wet/dry cycle is still important, even in the SIP, until which time the nutrients in the medium are used up and fertigation is started.

This is just based on the outcome I've seen with this comparison grow, of these two identical clones of my HI-BISCUS pheno, in the super soil mixture that I used (1/3 each of coco, compost soil, worm castings—plus perlite and nutrients). This pheno is not super vigorous, but the two plants were looking very healthy up until about day 17 or so, when the leaves started to take on a slightly more pale/yellow hue, indicating lack of nutrients including nitrogen.

Here they are on DAY 13 looking fabulous. You can really see the contrast in leaf color and size between day 13 and day 32.

HI-BISCUS_SIP_comparison1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Oct 3, 2024

SIP and nursery pot comparison grow

On DAY 26, leaf color has faded toward yellow, and more so for the SIP plant.

comparison_grow1.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Oct 16, 2024

DAY 32. The nursery pot plant (right) experienced a normal wet/dry cycle and did better than the SIP plant (left), from day 17 to day 32. The SIP is showing diminished growth... leaves are smaller.

comparison_grow_DAY32.jpg

• cbdhemp808
• Yesterday at 4:45 PM

SIP on left, nursery POT on right.

By day 32, the SIP plant's medium was still heavy with water. This tells me the SIP should have been allowed to drain fully, and that there was no benefit from having water in the reservoir. However, if I had started fertigating the SIP, say on day 14, then water+nutrients in the reservoir would have been a good thing. Nutrients of course feed all of the growth processes, which in turn drives the uptake of water.

The other SIP I'm running right now, growing my CBD #9 pheno, is a different story. That pheno is robust and fast-growing. She's been running a bit on the dry side, without a buildup of water in the reservoir. I started fertigating her today (day 17).

So, there's a lesson here... water in the reservoir is a much different situation than water+nutrients in the reservoir. I think it's fine for some plain water to be in the reservoir, as long as the plant is using it up quickly, and there are nutrients in the medium. When the medium begins to run out of nutrients, then it no longer makes sense for plain water to be sitting in the reservoir. At that point, the reservoir instead needs to collect both water and nutrients, as a result of either top-fertigating, or fertigating down the fill tube.

I also feel that it's probably always best to top-fertigate the SIP, to bring nutrients to all the roots, upper and lower. The benefit of the SIP is that excess water+nutrients collect in the reservoir where the deeper roots will have constant access to them. In addition, I feel that—depending on how vigorous the pheno is, i.e. how fast it absorbs water and nutrients—there may need to be a "dry" period, where the reservoir level goes to zero, and subsequently the roots have a chance to use up most of the available water in the medium. (This is easily checked by simply lifting the SIP bucket to get an idea of the weight.) After this dry period, the SIP can then be top-fertigated to runoff once again.

The way I see it, the purpose of a SIP is to boost fertigation efficiency.

 

[Fenderbender]

Is there any stem size difference?

Well yeah I don't know what the deal is with clones but probably similar they still need to colonise the pot.
So yeah until you got roots that can seriously shift volume just give it little and let it drain.
I topped up early too and the big plant didn't mind but the smaller one went a bit droopy. I should have waited for it to dry out the first time.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Is there any stem size difference?

I don't think so, but I'll take a closer look.

Well yeah I don't know what the deal is with clones but probably similar they still need to colonise the pot.
So yeah until you got roots that can seriously shift volume just give it little and let it drain.
I topped up early too and the big plant didn't mind but the smaller one went a bit droopy. I should have waited for it to dry out the first time.

From DAY 1 to DAY 30, the SIP was running with some water always in the rez. This situation was basically neutral—i.e. not really beneficial, nor particularly harmful. The real problem was that I should have started fertigating both plants around day 14. Then, water+nutes in the rez would have allowed the SIP to pull ahead. Well... interesting experience so far!

 

[cbdhemp808]

I edited my post above and added another photo.

 

[Bode]

Highya CBD Dude,

Given the scenario thus far, I'm wondering about the root system. There's no way to check while growing, so one would need to examine symptoms and signs. Maybe the root system isn't developed enough. I don't know much about your grow and don't want to cause bad feelings. Do you see that as a possible reason as to why the SIP plant is lagging? That's the only answer I could come up with. With all the SIP activity, seems like the SIP plant should be ahead. Mind-boggling! Happy Smokin'

 

[cbdhemp808]

Highya CBD Dude,

Given the scenario thus far, I'm wondering about the root system. There's no way to check while growing, so one would need to examine symptoms and signs. Maybe the root system isn't developed enough. I don't know much about your grow and don't want to cause bad feelings. Do you see that as a possible reason as to why the SIP plant is lagging? That's the only answer I could come up with. With all the SIP activity, seems like the SIP plant should be ahead. Mind-boggling! Happy Smokin'

Hey Bode. I think both plants just started running out of nutrients around day 17. By day 26 it was starting to become quite noticeable (leaf color). Now at day 32, the nursery pot was on the wet/dry cycle and turned out looking better than the SIP. The SIP plant just stopped growing (height) and was waterlogged... the fact of insufficient nutrients reached a critical level, and her rate of water consumption dropped dramatically.

I think the SIP plant's root system is just fine, because she was drinking from the rez just fine. It would have been nice to grow her in a translucent bucket instead of white, so that the roots could be seen. My CBD #9 pheno's bucket is translucent... I caught a glimpse of the roots today, down in the rez.

 

[Gee64]

Do you by chance have a refractometer? It would be interesting to see the difference in the leaves and also see how calcium is doing.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Do you by chance have a refractometer? It would be interesting to see the difference in the leaves and also see how calcium is doing.

No refractometer.

I made my final edits to my post above. Time to call it a night! See you on the flip side.

Thanks for your comments, guys.