CBD Auto EmmyStack In AziSIPs, GeoFlora, Sweet Candy, Dynomyco, Roots Organic Soil +

[CBDMed]

Whoa...
I am rethinking Supersoils.
I have very limited availability here in Colombia, so I did the math on the Terp Tea again, and was astonished how affordable it is.
Right now the 40 pounder of Terp Tea Bloom is like 40% off. It comes out to like $2.79 a pound on sale, if you buy it by the 40 Lbs (and like $4.65 a pound regular).
I dunno, but I can't nutes this nice shipped in anywhere close to $2.79 for these kind of ingredients.

Terp Tea NPK / 3 - 7 - 4​

DERIVED FROM
Bat Guano, Fishbone Meal, Crab Meal, Kelp Meal, Non Gmo Soybean Meal, Seabird Guano, Feather Meal, Langbeinite, Kieserite, Phosphate Rock, Sulfate of Potash, Dolomite. Also contains nonplant food ingredients Beneficial Bacteria and Beneficial Fungi.

For alternatives, I CAN find the 'nutes for original-style Supersoil.

Also, I JUST found a feed store stuff if I want to buy it by the 90-100 Lb sack (40-45Kg):
Alfalfa meal,
Chicken guts meal (do I want that?)
Feather meal
Fish meal,
Bovine blood meal
"Triple Chicken Flour" (do I want that?)
Calcium Bone meal

But that would be like a zillion $$, and a zillion sacks, whereas $2.79 a pound is crazy cheap for here! And I do not need to buy all of those many sacks.

GF wants you to put one cup of VEG in the pot, and then 3 more applications of VEG, and then 3 applications of BLOOM. So that is like 7 cups, or 3-1/2 pints.
"A pint is a pound, the world around", so that is 6 cups = 3.5 pints = 3.5 pounds.
So one option would be to mix 7 cups / 3.5 pounds of Terp Tea into Roots Organic Soil, and add dog water during veg if needed.

Another option MIGHT be to make the original balanced Subcool Supersoil mix (which I can get nutes for), and then would it be bad to throw in a cup of this Terp Tea, just for flavor?
My thought is, Supersoil is balanced. Terp Tea is balanced. So would adding just a bit of Terp Tea (for flavor) hurt?

Or is that too much food, and it would be better to stick with the original Supersoil, and then give it a good tea every two weeks, IF it needs it?

I just think $2.79 a pound is a great price, and I should get some more (because it is sealed air tight in plastic).
I think if I just pre-mix this stuff into the soil and cook it, it should have great flavor! It might need some additional N for the VEG phase, but that can be adjusted over time.

Is it a bad idea? (Or try it?)

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'm curious, what's the pine in your coco-pine? (sorry if you already said earlier in the thread.)

 

[InTheShed]

Terp Tea NPK / 3 - 7 - 4

That might work for some plants but is not what cannabis is looking for. You can see the tissue analysis charts here for a better idea.

 

[CBDMed]

I'm curious, what's the pine in your coco-pine? (sorry if you already said earlier in the thread.)

Hey @cbdhemp808 , no worries. It is just some 50% coco coir and 50% shredded Oregon Pine tree bark.

 

[CBDMed]

That might work for some plants but is not what cannabis is looking for. You can see the tissue analysis charts here for a better idea.

Yeah, I will have to check that out.
I remembered today that @SmokingWings said that you have to keep adding the Terp Tea VEG all through the grow (and the Bloom is then supplemental). So it occurred to me that my reasoning was faulty, because Terp Tea Bloom is not balanced in and of itself. To have it properly balanced in and of itself, I would have to pre-load both the Veg and the Bloom.
However, if the 40 pound sack of Veg costs about the same as the 40 pound sack of Bloom, I think that's still going to be my cheapest way to go. By a lot. Because even when it is not on sale, it is $4.65 a pound for those nutes. And I can't even get bonemeal shipped in for less than $11 a pound, much less anything else.

Actually I probably need to price out what it costs me to make super soil, just to get a good true comparison. And then I need to check out your chart. Thank you.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey @cbdhemp808 , no worries. It is just some 50% coco coir and 50% shredded Oregon Pine tree bark.

Why not 100% coco coir? I know that uncomposted pine bark is acidic. Is this fully composted pine bark? If not, it "can steal nitrogen and kill beneficial fungi in the soil." It seems there's mixed opinion out there on this. Maybe you will need to add more nitrogen if it's not composted.

 

[InTheShed]

because Terp Tea Bloom is not balanced in and of itself. To have it properly balanced in and of itself, I would have to pre-load both the Veg and the Bloom.
However, if the 40 pound sack of Veg costs about the same as the 40 pound sack of Bloom, I think that's still going to be my cheapest way to go. By a lot. Because even when it is not on sale, it is $4.65 a pound for those nutes. And I can't even get bonemeal shipped in for less than $11 a pound, much less anything else.

GF Bloom is more balanced for cannabis than the 3-7-4 Terp Tea though. The plants need much more potassium and much less phosphorus than that ratio provides. And my flowering plants would show severe yellowing with that little nitrogen. I would buy the 40lb bag of GF Veg for birth to harvest if I was choosing between the TT and GF products.

 

[CBDMed]

Why not 100% coco coir?

Really??
Because many months ago I was having a hard time finding nutrients and things in country. And shipping things in from the USA gets expensive (like $24USD a pound), and I'm always trying to cut costs (especially now), so I had my assistant shopping the nurseries in his area, to see what was available locally.

The local nursery guy told my assistant that he grew, and that he used 50% coir and 50% pine tree bark (to cut costs. Because they can be really cheap here).

Long story but I was gonna try to learn from him, so I thought I would just ape what he did. And I did not want to outspend him (because you don't want to do that here--many repercussions). So I bought two sacks of the stuff, and wish I had not.
So now I have some good mulch That nothing grows in!

I know that uncomposted pine bark is acidic. Is this fully composted pine bark? If not, it "can steal nitrogen and kill beneficial fungi in the soil." It seems there's mixed opinion out there on this. Maybe you will need to add more nitrogen if it's not composted.

Yeah.
The original plan with the mulch on the indoor LED buckets was to try to keep the 1 inch earthworm casting layer moist. But a mix of coco coir and pine tree bark does not lock in any moisture, so it is not doing any good inside under LEDs. (On the roof, with super soil, that's a different story maybe.)
@SmokingWings if you water every couple of days, you do not really need a mulch, because everything stays moist. We will see. If I do decide I want a mulch, I will probably put a thin layer of that roots organic soil, just because it seems to lock in moisture pretty well. (But I think I'd rather try to skip it.)

To save time, I took the old mulch and mulched some trees outside with it.

After that disaster of trying to use that local Colombian base soil that had all the sodium salt in it, I think I'm just going to use this USA roots organic soil. And then I can either make super soil with it, or else I can pre-load it with this Terp Tea Veg and Bloom together.
Terp Tea in 40 Lb sacks shipped in by boat is affordable! I need to price the components for super soil, just so I have numbers.

 

[CBDMed]

GF Bloom is more balanced for cannabis than the 3-7-4 Terp Tea though.

Yes.

The plants need much more potassium and much less phosphorus than that ratio provides.

Yes.

And my flowering plants would show severe yellowing with that little nitrogen.

Ok. Good to know.
So then, should I PLAN on adding N for the five buckets that got Terp Tea Bloom instead of GF Bloom?
(I am wondering if all of the buckets that got GF or TT Bloom will need some supplemental N.)

I would buy the 40lb bag of GF Veg for birth to harvest if I was choosing between the TT and GF products.

Yeah, maybe I would also? Except shipping is so much of a killer that the difference in cost is extreme.
For examples...

TT Bloom is 40% off right now, so it is $111 USD for a 40 Lb bag, or like $2.76 a pound (half kilo).
Off sale it is more like $186 USD, which is like $4.65 a Lb, and that is still way cheaper than anything else I can find here (or have shipped in).

For comparison numbers, GF Bloom is not available in a 40 Lb, but if I go to the Amazon River Basin I can buy 5 each of the 8 Lb sacks for $90 each, for $450 USD plus tax and shipping to my US reshipper, who will then charge an estimates $347.58 in reshipping, for a subtotal of a whopping $797.58 USD (or like $800 Clams).
If I break that into three shipments I can avoid the 28% tax on orders over $199.00 USD (which would hypothetically save $28% of $450 USD, which would be an additional $126 USD in tax).

So, to compare, the TT Veg will NOT be on sale, so I will pay about +/- $186 USD for the sack, or +/- $4.65 Lb of nute flour.
In contrast, if I break the order up, GF Veg will be like +/- $800 USD / 40 Lb = $20 Lb (which is more than 4 times as much per pound).

(Did I mention that shipping is a killer??? )

The way the locals do things is that they dig a hole, and throw all of their kitchen waste into it, and then let the worms go at it. And then when everything is all nice and decomposed, then they plant. So, when we finally get to the property, I hope to try that. But in the meantime I need something I can run indoors under LEDs that does not break the bank ('cuz the bank cracked last week).

 

[InTheShed]

Since you're obviously committed to growing organic I won't mention how much easier your life and the pain in your wallet would be with a collection of locally available nutes from your neighborhood nursery and you have already bought the Terp Tea Bloom, my suggestion is to find a way to add a lot of nitrogen and potassium to what you have.

How is something you can look into, but since human urine is listed as 11:2:4 that's a start (not sure if you are actually going to use "dog water" or if that is some euphemism for human urine). Banana peel tea (BPT) should be a good source of potassium, but of course, it may take a few grows to figure out how much urine and BPT it will take to create a good blend with your Terp Tea Bloom to successfully grow cannabis.

Since the Terp folks have taken the time to get an NPK analysis done, have they also posted the calcium, magnesium, and sulfur numbers for their mix?

 

[cbdhemp808]

Really??
Because many months ago I was having a hard time finding nutrients and things in country. And shipping things in from the USA gets expensive (like $24USD a pound), and I'm always trying to cut costs (especially now), so I had my assistant shopping the nurseries in his area, to see what was available locally.

I think I knew you were gonna say that. Is the coco coir + pine bark mixed into your soil, or only a mulch layer on top? So, I take it you couldn't find any coco coir compressed blocks. Here in Hawaii, the ones I get are imported from Thailand and/or India, and they only cost me under $7.00/block. I get a deal on them from a local farmer. I think the blocks are about 5 kg, about 3 gal. volume, and expand to about 20 gal.

 

[CBDMed]

Since you're obviously committed to growing organic I won't mention how much easier your life and the pain in your wallet would be with a collection of locally available nutes from your neighborhood nursery

Yeah, I know. It would be ten times easier to go conventional. Only, some people believe that our very first mission was to care for the planet, and some texts promise that He will destroy those who do not take care of His earth (deliquence of duty), so I am afraid not to take as good of care of the planet as I can. (And if we do not do that, then what do we leave for our next generations?)

and you have already bought the Terp Tea Bloom, my suggestion is to find a way to add a lot of nitrogen and potassium to what you have.

Ok. Makes sense. (I was thinking the same thing.)

How is something you can look into, but since human urine is listed as 11:2:4 that's a start (not sure if you are actually going to use "dog water" or if that is some euphemism for human urine).

Oy. It is a eupemism I can say "human urine" if it is better. Only, after watching that video on human urine (where it could not even power salad, let alone peppers), I was not too impressed.

However, maybe you are right. Maybe I can use it, because it is only a supplement for N (and there is so much other good stuff in those SIPs that they should not lack for well-roundedness in the nute category).

I used human urine for most of the last grow, and it seems to have worked, so I can use it again.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Banana peel tea (BPT) should be a good source of potassium, but of course, it may take a few grows to figure out how much urine and BPT it will take to create a good blend with your Terp Tea Bloom to successfully grow cannabis.

Right. So I am going to SWAG it and watch.
I made lots of banana peel tea earlier, using 1 tsp EWC (Azi's suggestion).
Before she left, Emilya said that I should NOT remove the banana peel, but that I should simply add molasses and stir to stabilize the mixture. I meant to ask her again about that because it seems like kind of a mess not to pull the peels, but I got overtaken by life, and did not ask.
This is what a half-used jar looks like, (with the peels).
(I think it would make a real mess to mix that with molasses and NOT remove the peels.)

Since the Terp folks have taken the time to get an NPK analysis done, have they also posted the calcium, magnesium, and sulfur numbers for their mix?

Great questions.
I do not see a data sheet for TT BLOOM
This is from the Jordan River:

• 3 - 7 - 4 NPK, Ca 8%, Mg 1%, S 2%, Fe 0.1% DEREIVED FROM: Bat Guano, Fish Bone Meal, Crab Meal, Kelp Meal, Non Gmo Soybean Meal, Seabird Guano, Feather Meal, Langbeinite, Kieserite, Phosphate Rock, Sulfate of Potash, Dolomite.

I hope that is helpful.

This is the data sheet for TT GROW run through Google Translate. (I can ask for the sheet on BLOOM if you want.)

Great questions.

 

[CBDMed]

I think I knew you were gonna say that. Is the coco coir + pine bark mixed into your soil, or only a mulch layer on top? So, I take it you couldn't find any coco coir compressed blocks. Here in Hawaii, the ones I get are imported from Thailand and/or India, and they only cost me under $7.00/block. I get a deal on them from a local farmer. I think the blocks are about 5 kg, about 3 gal. volume, and expand to about 20 gal.

It was a 1" layer on top, to allow the solids to pass, and to lock in moisture. But it does not lock.
I am trying to grow organic in soil (as a goal).
I have to run. Back later.

 

[Azimuth]

Before she left, Emilya said that I should NOT remove the banana peel, but that I should simply add molasses and stir to stabilize the mixture. I meant to ask her again about that because it seems like kind of a mess not to pull the peels, but I got overtaken by life, and did not ask.
This is what a half-used jar looks like, (with the peels).
(I think it would make a real mess to mix that with molasses and NOT remove the peels.)

You can absolutely remove the peel for longer term storage. I usually have three containers going for many of my JNF mixes. One large, permanent bucket with everything in it, one small working jar from which the solids have been screened, and a third which is for new stuff that I use for a month or so to season fresh batches before adding to the big one.

The plant material in the larger container will continue to break down over time so I usually leave it in there.

And I don't add molasses to very much of my stuff. Yes to my LAB and my FAA, but that's about it.

For the extracts it's much less about ongoing microbes and the need to keep them dormant and fed, and more about getting the plants' goodies in water soluble form. Once you do, there's less of a need for the microbes so no need for molasses.

 

[SmokingWings]

I remembered today that @SmokingWings said that you have to keep adding the Terp Tea VEG all through the grow (and the Bloom is then supplemental).

I think it is a misunderstanding. The Terp Tea Grow will be enough by itself to keep the plants healthy through the vegetating stage. The Bloom Tea should keep the plant healthy and growing nicely through the flowering stage. It is more like supplementing the Grow with the Bloom Tea by adding it early. That way the microbes and other organisms in the soil or grow medium will already be starting to do any pre-digesting of the Flowering Tea so that the levels are already increased a touch bit when the plant starts to demand more.

What I have been doing lately, and recommending that others try, is to start giving the plants some of the Bloom Tea 2 to 3 weeks before putting the plants under a flowering light schedule. I have noticed that some of the other members here are doing similar types of feeding where the flowering fertilizers are starting before the flowers start to show. I do not grow Auto-Flowers but some of those who do grow them recommend getting used to seeing the signs that that type of plant is starting to enter its flowering stage.

During the flowering I will give an occasional dose of a Liquid Fish product to provide a bit of Nitrogen, maybe around week 2 or 3 and again at week 5 or 6 after the stigma/pistils start to show. And a dose of a Liquid Seaweed or similar Kelp product several days to a week after the "fish". The fish will give a boost of Nitrogen to the plant and the seaweed will give a boost of Potassium.

 

[CBDMed]

You can absolutely remove the peel for longer term storage. I usually have three containers going for many of my JNF mixes. One large, permanent bucket with everything in it, one small working jar from which the solids have been screened, and a third which is for new stuff that I use for a month or so to season fresh batches before adding to the big one.

The plant material in the larger container will continue to break down over time so I usually leave it in there.

And I don't add molasses to very much of my stuff. Yes to my LAB and my FAA, but that's about it.

For the extracts it's much less about ongoing microbes and the need to keep them dormant and fed, and more about getting the plants' goodies in water soluble form. Once you do, there's less of a need for the microbes so no need for molasses.

Ahh, ok. Thanks.

If I understand, the purpose of the molasses is to give the microbes fuel to eat the banana peel?
However, once the peel has already been eaten, then it leaves you with water soluble K (and other nutes), which is what you really want with the banana peel in the first place??

So, the microbes are not really needed (hence the molasses are not really needed)?
(Or do I misunderstand?)

 

[CBDMed]

I think it is a misunderstanding. The Terp Tea Grow will be enough by itself to keep the plants healthy through the vegetating stage. The Bloom Tea should keep the plant healthy and growing nicely through the flowering stage. It is more like supplementing the Grow with the Bloom Tea by adding it early. That way the microbes and other organisms in the soil or grow medium will already be starting to do any pre-digesting of the Flowering Tea so that the levels are already increased a touch bit when the plant starts to demand more.

Ahh, ok. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

What I have been doing lately, and recommending that others try, is to start giving the plants some of the Bloom Tea 2 to 3 weeks before putting the plants under a flowering light schedule. I have noticed that some of the other members here are doing similar types of feeding where the flowering fertilizers are starting before the flowers start to show. I do not grow Auto-Flowers but some of those who do grow them recommend getting used to seeing the signs that that type of plant is starting to enter its flowering stage.

Ahh, ok. Haha, the autos are starting to send out pistils, so maybe I guess I applied it early enough?

At the moment I think I need to take Shed's advice, and add N and K, so the girls do not develop a deficiency.

During the flowering I will give an occasional dose of a Liquid Fish product to provide a bit of Nitrogen, maybe around week 2 or 3 and again at week 5 or 6 after the stigma/pistils start to show. And a dose of a Liquid Seaweed or similar Kelp product several days to a week after the "fish". The fish will give a boost of Nitrogen to the plant and the seaweed will give a boost of Potassium.

That sounds like it makes sense.
First fish for growth, then seaweed for blooming?

 

[Azimuth]

Ahh, ok. Thanks.

If I understand, the purpose of the molasses is to give the microbes fuel to eat the banana peel?
However, once the peel has already been eaten, then it leaves you with water soluble K (and other nutes), which is what you really want with the banana peel in the first place??

So, the microbes are not really needed (hence the molasses are not really needed)?
(Or do I misunderstand?)

The microbes are there to break down the material so you want them in there to start, but once the stuff is pretty well broken down, there little need in my mind to tend to them in storage.

That said I do add new castings to my main container periodically to help breakdown stuff over time.

 

[CBDMed]

The microbes are there to break down the material so you want them in there to start, but once the stuff is pretty well broken down, there little need in my mind to tend to them in storage.

That said I do add new castings to my main container periodically to help breakdown stuff over time.

Got it. Gracias.

 

[InTheShed]

(I can ask for the sheet on BLOOM if you want.)

I would to see if it's the same for Ca and Mg. Some epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) would help boost the magnesium in these numbers:

Ca 8%, Mg 1%, S 2%,

Happy Gregorian new year El G!