Carmen's Winter Autos With ViparSpectra XS1500 Pro!

[Krissi Carbone]

I'd give it another day by looking today. Looks like the plant has plenty of life in it and should be ok with that then you can finish it to where you want. Maybe two days. Do you by looking at it think it will live through it? If yes then why not? That extra time can bring out some real heavy high!

Hi Carmen! I tried to get here earlier today but it was still too late! Totally agreed with Stone, she can do another day for sure but to @Azimuths response, I have absolutely droughted plants 5/6 days and the drought was able to do its job. All plant specific I have found through the droughts, each one has its own droughting threshold.

 

[NickHardy]

Azi is saying it isn't the degrees, it's a percentage. Do you think it has wilted by 50 %? I don't know to measure that.

My bad. I read it and forgot it.

 

[Lerugged]

So your grow is nearing the end. Are you dropping anything for summer outside? Tomorrow is my annual seed planting tradition. I can't wait to get the summer grow going. Moving at the end of this month so I'll have to plant in pots to start but springs on the waaaaayyy. Yeah baby.
Can smell your buds on the wind today lol

 

[Carmen Ray]

So your grow is nearing the end. Are you dropping anything for summer outside? Tomorrow is my annual seed planting tradition. I can't wait to get the summer grow going. Moving at the end of this month so I'll have to plant in pots to start but springs on the waaaaayyy. Yeah baby.
Can smell your buds on the wind today lol

It's a very sweet and fruity smell It's cold hey! It went up to 36 C day before yesterday and now down to a high of 13!

I'm not growing outside until I move out of this place into something with more privacy and security. I don't own outside, so it's tricky.

I plan on two more indoor runs before family time in March to May. I will drop beans when I harvest the G1 plant. I'm leaning strongly towards a double Red Russian XXL grow. That's my sleep muti!

Are you wetting seeds indoors in containers so that you can move them if you need to? What's happening with the move?

 

[Carmen Ray]

Hi Carmen! I tried to get here earlier today but it was still too late! Totally agreed with Stone, she can do another day for sure but to @Azimuths response, I have absolutely droughted plants 5/6 days and the drought was able to do its job. All plant specific I have found through the droughts, each one has its own droughting threshold.

Hey Krissi! Thank you. I read something you wrote to another grower (I searched for "controlled drought") and it's cleared up a couple of questions I had. One thing I am still unsure of is how to measure the leaf wilt if not degrees. I'll check in with you again tomorrow and see if it can go another day

 

[InTheShed]

I've seen some folks do rescue watering during drought but it wasn't part of Caplan's study so there's no definitive answer as to whether the effect on the THC level is the same.

You can see how Marcus measures his leaf angle here, using an app on his phone.

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Hey Krissi! Thank you. I read something you wrote to another grower (I searched for "controlled drought") and it's cleared up a couple of questions I had. One thing I am still unsure of is how to measure the leaf wilt if not degrees.

Aaaah you have asked the ominous question.

Is it too far of a stretch for me to tell you that they will tell you when they have had enough?

In the beginning I was very wary and I was focused on trying to get the LWA. After a while, it seemed as if I could tell when the plants have had enough. There is a point before we like freak out and enter that red zone, you know, where it just goes downhill. There is a specific time with each plant I have droughted, that I have seen that same time come regardless of LWA (although I still urge new droughters to follow it and ask older droughters questions on if its ok to go on-as you are already doing). I say this too, however, because I have had some strains that never wilt or lose turgidity. Fat squat plants have done this to me, Sirius Black, NYC Diesel, Big Bull for example.

So when I saw that LWA wasn't really changing, I had to go to another visual que.

Sometimes, plants have only started to show deficiencies for example, Cmag on the ones mentioned, especially; When I saw that becoming what was soon to be a pretty severe deprivation, I decided to stop droughting.

Another thing I have done is along with the reference leaf, finding a few others and using the collective as a way to determine if the plant has reached the LWA we want. Sometimes I have picked a leaf and it's like that is the only leaf that wilted or that is the one leaf that didn't...it really does change the more droughts you do with each and every strain responding differently to the stress.

My major takeaway was that Caplans droughting wasnt done over years and years with plants and plants there was never a strain based study or Indica vs Sativa study or anything of the like so not going against protocols, just understanding that the set protocols probably have some leeway room across the phenos and it is up to the droughter to find the right balance in the end, for our droughting plants.

I know that kind of leaves things up in the air but when I started the droughting thread, it was for this purpose-to experiment, document, take notes, see what holds water, what doesn't, and where there are leaks.

I truly hope the overall uncertainty of an unscripted drought per say, won't deter you from continuing droughting. My hope is that it just expands your horizons and opens your eyes and green soul to connect even more with your plants in order to get the most medicine out of them

I'll check in with you again tomorrow and see if it can go another day

Please do, you'd be surprised what some plants can take and the benefit of an extra day or two can, as Stone said, really make a difference.

 

[Lerugged]

I'll drop them straight into the soil in 20 lt pots. I don't bother with paper towels or whatnot. Just follow nature's way and I'm never disappointed.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I've seen some folks do rescue watering during drought but it wasn't part of Caplan's study so there's no definitive answer as to whether the effect on the THC level is the same.

You can see how Marcus measures his leaf angle here, using an app on his phone.

Thanks Shed, I haven't read the Caplan study. I have tried and I find sciencing very demanding. I prefer to take the practical lessons from others and apply them. If it works for me that's great and if it doesn't, at least no harm has come to the plant.

I am looking at Marcus' picture and it looks as if he is measuring in degrees rather than percentage. I am confused. I thought I read that the wilt must be 45 degrees, but I may have been mistaken.

Thanks for posting the Caplan Study!

Aaaah you have asked the ominous question.

Is it too far of a stretch for me to tell you that they will tell you when they have had enough?

I am sure in time I will get a sense of things from experience but ja, beginner's class 101.

In the beginning I was very wary and I was focused on trying to get the LWA. After a while, it seemed as if I could tell when the plants have had enough. There is a point before we like freak out and enter that red zone, you know, where it just goes downhill. There is a specific time with each plant I have droughted, that I have seen that same time come regardless of LWA (although I still urge new droughters to follow it and ask older droughters questions on if its ok to go on-as you are already doing). I say this too, however, because I have had some strains that never wilt or lose turgidity. Fat squat plants have done this to me, Sirius Black, NYC Diesel, Big Bull for example.

So when I saw that LWA wasn't really changing, I had to go to another visual que.

My wilt is quite pronounced actually. The plant is wilting more now, these hours later.

Sometimes, plants have only started to show deficiencies for example, Cmag on the ones mentioned, especially; When I saw that becoming what was soon to be a pretty severe deprivation, I decided to stop droughting.

Another thing I have done is along with the reference leaf, finding a few others and using the collective as a way to determine if the plant has reached the LWA we want. Sometimes I have picked a leaf and it's like that is the only leaf that wilted or that is the one leaf that didn't...it really does change the more droughts you do with each and every strain responding differently to the stress.

My major takeaway was that Caplans droughting wasnt done over years and years with plants and plants there was never a strain based study or Indica vs Sativa study or anything of the like so not going against protocols, just understanding that the set protocols probably have some leeway room across the phenos and it is up to the droughter to find the right balance in the end, for our droughting plants.

I know that kind of leaves things up in the air but when I started the droughting thread, it was for this purpose-to experiment, document, take notes, see what holds water, what doesn't, and where there are leaks.

I truly hope the overall uncertainty of an unscripted drought per say, won't deter you from continuing droughting. My hope is that it just expands your horizons and opens your eyes and green soul to connect even more with your plants in order to get the most medicine out of them

I am not easily deterred by inexperience. I am pretty sure I see quite radical changes in trichomes with droughted plants, so I want to get this right.

Please do, you'd be surprised what some plants can take and the benefit of an extra day or two can, as Stone said, really make a difference.

It's a very floppy plant atm. I should get a updated pic. My sense is telling me it is time, but let's see what you think please.

Gelato auto

• Carmen Ray
• Aug 31, 2023
• controlled drought gelato auto leaf wilt angle vipar spectra xs 1500 pro

Controlled drought - leaf wilt angle

Gelato auto

• Carmen Ray
• Aug 31, 2023
• controlled drought gelato auto leaf wilt angle vipar spectra xs 1500 pro

Controlled drought back on! Leaf wilt angle

 

[Carmen Ray]

I'll drop them straight into the soil in 20 lt pots. I don't bother with paper towels or whatnot. Just follow nature's way and I'm never disappointed.

Chom, are you planting with the super moon?

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Thanks Shed, I haven't read the Caplan study. I have tried and I find sciencing very demanding. I prefer to take the practical lessons from others and apply them. If it works for me that's great and if it doesn't, at least no harm has come to the plant.

Me toooo!!!!! I'm a trial and error and let me see what works for me kinda gal! Thats why I like you so much Carmen!

I am looking at Marcus' picture and it looks as if he is measuring in degrees rather than percentage. I am confused. I thought I read that the wilt must be 45 degrees, but I may have been mistaken.

It seems like more than it is....just measure your leaf angles before drought then begin drought, during drought check angles, continue to measure leaf angles for up to 11 days but if the leaf drops under 50% past the original turgid state, fertigate the cultivar.

Also from @Maritimer,
"The slow and gentle drought is most beneficial. I run Pro-Mix HP and can always go at least 8 days before the LWA (wilt) is 50% greater than original turgid readings. The cultivar needs a bit of time to prepare (synthesize) the stressed cannabinoids"

Thanks for posting the Caplan Study!

He's the best

I am sure in time I will get a sense of things from experience but ja, beginner's class 101.

100!

My wilt is quite pronounced actually. The plant is wilting more now, these hours later.

This is that point before you see red, and just like how it happens to us, it's ok it's ok it's ok and then it's not.

I am not easily deterred by inexperience. I am pretty sure I see quite radical changes in trichomes with droughted plants, so I want to get this right.

You rock

It's a very floppy plant atm. I should get a updated pic. My sense is telling me it is time, but let's see what you think please.

Gelato auto

• Carmen Ray
• Aug 31, 2023
• controlled drought gelato auto leaf wilt angle vipar spectra xs 1500 pro

Controlled drought - leaf wilt angle

Gelato auto

• Carmen Ray
• Aug 31, 2023
• controlled drought gelato auto leaf wilt angle vipar spectra xs 1500 pro

Controlled drought back on! Leaf wilt angle

Sure, those leaves are saying to me let's get fed

 

[StoneOtter]

 

[InTheShed]

I am looking at Marcus' picture and it looks as if he is measuring in degrees rather than percentage. I am confused. I thought I read that the wilt must be 45 degrees, but I may have been mistaken.

His are both 56° and some minutes. And there's nothing about degrees in Caplan's study. As Azi mentioned above, it's a 50% (not degree) change in leaf wilt angle that triggers the end of the drought period.

 

[Lerugged]

That was yesterday from what i saw. Maybe it's tomorrow ? Always on the first September I plant.
Tried to take the kids up Table Mountain yesterday. Spent 15 minutes on the top and caught the next one down. My kids are nuts, running around up there. Near the edge. Climbing on walls and edges and sheet .
Haha. Full mood on roids.

 

[Lerugged]

This guy right here caused that kak.

 

[Azimuth]

Keep in mind that droughting is typically done very near the end of the plant's life, week 7 for a typical 8-9 week strain. So, 11 days added to the very beginning of week 7 puts you mid week 8, so right at the end.

I agree with Krissi in that the study wasn't all that broad. No multiple strains, no multiple rounds to get an average, but really more of an example in time. So, stressing the plant causes it to react by increasing trichomes and therefore cannabinoids. No big surprise there.

Is there some magic ideal combination of time and wilt? Probably, but it's different for every plant so I don't stress the details. The idea is to get some increase in trichome production with enough time to rehydrate the plant before harvest so the buds are harvested at relatively normal hydration and therefore can go thru the normal curing process.

You can get all technical (and I do) noting that a circle is 360 degrees, so the bottom of the circle is 180 degrees. So if Nick was correct in identifying the starting leaf angle at 260 degrees you'd subtract 180 from 260 and get 80 degrees to complete wilt, so you'd stop the drought at 50% of that or a drop of 40 degrees lower. 260 - 40 = 220 degrees as the target for those of us geeks measuring things with a protractor.

Hope that helps.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Keep in mind that droughting is typically done very near the end of the plant's life, week 7 for a typical 8-9 week strain. So, 11 days added to the very beginning of week 7 puts you mid week 8, so right at the end.

I agree with Krissi in that the study wasn't all that broad. No multiple strains, no multiple rounds to get an average, but really more of an example in time. So, stressing the plant causes it to react by increasing trichomes and therefore cannabinoids. No big surprise there.

Is there some magic ideal combination of time and wilt? Probably, but it's different for every plant so I don't stress the details. The idea is to get some increase in trichome production with enough time to rehydrate the plant before harvest so the buds are harvested at relatively normal hydration and therefore can go thru the normal curing process.

You can get all technical (and I do) noting that a circle is 360 degrees, so the bottom of the circle is 180 degrees. So if Nick was correct in identifying the starting leaf angle at 260 degrees you'd subtract 180 from 260 and get 80 degrees to complete wilt, so you'd stop the drought at 50% of that or a drop of 40 degrees lower. 260 - 40 = 220 degrees as the target for those of us geeks measuring things with a protractor.

Hope that helps.

Thank you. So if the leaf angle is 90 you subtract 180 from 90 and get - 90 to complete wilt. Is the answer - 45? Is that how the calculation works?

 

[InTheShed]

I find it easier to measure up from the bottom so the angle will tend to be over 90°. But to your question:

Thank you. So if the leaf angle is 90 you subtract 180 from 90 and get - 90 to complete wilt. Is the answer - 45? Is that how the calculation works?

If the leaf angle is 90° measured from below, then when it drops to 45° (90 minus 50% of 90) then that would be when to water again according to Caplan.

Or if that 90° is measured from above, then 90+45=135° would be rescue time.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I find it easier to measure up from the bottom so the angle will tend to be over 90°. But to your question:

If the leaf angle is 90° measured from below, then when it drops to 45° (90 minus 50% of 90) then that would be when to water again according to Caplan.

Or if that 90° is measured from above, then 90+45=135° would be rescue time.

Thank you. I was using a random number to check my calculation is being done correctly and I got it wrong. I was not taught maths at high school, so I feel very disadvantaged sometimes. I think it is best if I just ask others for help when calculating, so that I don't mess up. I'd hate to think I would have watered at 45 when it should have been 135!

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Thank you. I was using a random number to check my calculation is being done correctly and I got it wrong. I was not taught maths at high school, so I feel very disadvantaged sometimes. I think it is best if I just ask others for help when calculating, so that I don't mess up. I'd hate to think I would have watered at 45 when it should have been 135!

Just ask! We are here for YOU!