Carmen's Winter Autos With ViparSpectra XS1500 Pro!

[Carmen Ray]

Innovation is right around the corner.... FOR EVERYTHING. I never want to point out problems, I'm actually sorry I dropped all that crap in your journal.

Honestly sorry for that.

I've been away from the Mag for a few years & just noticed trends when I came back. When I saw multiple ppl having the same issue, I picked up on similarities.

Never meant to offend anyone...

Don't apologize Preston, honestly I don't have a problem with having this conversation. I think it's an important discussion and given I have problems which have likely been exacerbated at the very least by swick, it makes sense to have it here.

Not even trying to be a dick here....

Is it possible that the rebound was because the nutrients were finally flushed down to the roots?

I think that may be the ticket.... top-feed nutrients to a solid runoff, so they make it all the way south.

I think it has something to do with the roots. What I thought was that there had been a salt build up in the bottom rootbound section of the pot and the flush cleared that toxicity. @Gee64 might have some thoughts too, given he has done some experimenting with different irrigation methods and is a rootophile too.

And I, personally, hope you didn't.

You were just being observant and honest, and that's a good thing.

100%

Shed you were having yellowing before the SIP anyway, weren’t you? Did you ever figure out which grow it started on?

My guess for a little while has been high res temps - which obviously isn’t an issue for Carmen. What about hempy btw Carmen for next time?

Nick

I enjoyed coco so if I had to change over to synthetics, I'd likely return to coco. It's difficult for me to have a lot of water activity on the dining table, so I prefer to keep it to a regular organic soil grow in this situation. Less chance of water affecting furniture and electrics.

@Preston9mm I must also add that I have leaf issues every grow with the soil I've been using. I am changing to a different soil for my next grow. So whilst the watering is a big factor, there are multiple factors at play here.

So my next soil grow will be kind of paint by numbers because I am going to stick to the script given me by the soil resellers, and I will go by the book with the light. DV8 had excellent results going by the book with the light.

 

[Gee64]

Don't apologize Preston, honestly I don't have a problem with having this conversation. I think it's an important discussion and given I have problems which have likely been exacerbated at the very least by swick, it makes sense to have it here.

I think it has something to do with the roots. What I thought was that there had been a salt build up in the bottom rootbound section of the pot and the flush cleared that toxicity. @Gee64 might have some thoughts too, given he has done some experimenting with different irrigation methods and is a rootophile too.

100%


I enjoyed coco so if I had to change over to synthetics, I'd likely return to coco. It's difficult for me to have a lot of water activity on the dining table, so I prefer to keep it to a regular organic soil grow in this situation. Less chance of water affecting furniture and electrics.

@Preston9mm I must also add that I have leaf issues every grow with the soil I've been using. I am changing to a different soil for my next grow. So whilst the watering is a big factor, there are multiple factors at play here.

So my next soil grow will be kind of paint by numbers because I am going to stick to the script given me by the soil resellers, and I will go by the book with the light. DV8 had excellent results going by the book with the light.

I agree with Preston. I'm not saying you can't do it without top watering, but I can grow far better plants with top watering. For how I use my soil it works best. I will play with swicks again though.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I agree with Preston. I'm not saying you can't do it without top watering, but I can grow far better plants with top watering. For how I use my soil it works best. I will play with swicks again though.

In terms of lack of nutrients / nutrient lockout, what do you think is the cause? Do you think that there is a salt build up causing a lockout or do you think that it is because nutrients just aren't getting to the bottom roots? I know the latter applies to calmag, but surely there is plenty of nutrition in the soil at the bottom as there is in the top. I'm trying to understand the mechanism that causes the starvation. Do you have any thoughts on that, Gee?

 

[InTheShed]

I'm not Gee but I don't think you've ever had a smooth grow with this soil!

Shed you were having yellowing before the SIP anyway, weren’t you? Did you ever figure out which grow it started on?

Indeed I have and I also haven't had time to put together a timeline, but I plan on it for sure.

My guess for a little while has been high res temps - which obviously isn’t an issue for Carmen. What about hempy btw Carmen for next time?

Lots of watering and checking pH so I can see why that doesn't fit the bill.

 

[ViparSpectra]

Carmen you got me excited to germinate some seeds and grow some plants. Carmen your definitely stressing too much, this is how we have fun . After 3 years of growing I got a good method that worked for me. I liked 3-5 gallon fabric pots although I do wanna try some new methods. After 6 weeks I watered every other day at least a gallon it seemed to flush out excess nutes and my plants grew nicely, mind you I’m an auto flower grower, definitely a different beast than the regular growers. I used geoflora and I really never had a problem, hey I wasn’t growing massive plants but I grew 4-5 oz plants, Carmen once you get this your gonna kill it, your so passionate about growing that’s why I’m gonna plant some this week you got me excited.I’ll never match your passion only women have that passion with plants, no disrespect guys, look at Krissis gardens, just outstanding

Wow, looking forward to your sharing with us. lol

 

[Carmen Ray]

I'm not Gee but I don't think you've ever had a smooth grow with this soil!

You're the Shed and you're quite right about this soil. It definitely plays a role here.

Indeed I have and I also haven't had time to put together a timeline, but I plan on it for sure.

I hope this is going to help figure out what needs to be done to correct the yellowing going forward.

Lots of watering and checking pH so I can see why that doesn't fit the bill.

Yes.

 

[Gee64]

In terms of lack of nutrients / nutrient lockout, what do you think is the cause? Do you think that there is a salt build up causing a lockout or do you think that it is because nutrients just aren't getting to the bottom roots? I know the latter applies to calmag, but surely there is plenty of nutrition in the soil at the bottom as there is in the top. I'm trying to understand the mechanism that causes the starvation. Do you have any thoughts on that, Gee?

My theory is that I think water roots need to be fed hydroponically and feeder roots need to be fed organically and when you use living soil it is designed to be consumed by feeder roots but swicking promotes water roots so synthetic folks will have great success with bottom watering as synthetics are specifically designed to be chelated and then drank by the water roots.

I think if you boil it right down it's actually a myco problem.... The top goes dry so myco goes dormant and starvation sets in.

I think a hybrid model of a swick that also gets regular top watering will probably work. I think that if your swick reservoir was filled from runoff and not from a watering can poured directly into the perlite that your grow would do better.

I don't think its lockout, I think its a lack of feeder roots to eat organically and a lack of fertigation for the water roots so the plant ends up starving.

If you rescued it with synthetics in the redervoir you would likely see instant positive results.

Every swick I tried, at a certain point, grew so many water roots at the bottom of the cloth pot that water could not get past them and the top half of the pot went dusty dry.

When I top water I get a bag completely filled with feeder roots from top to bottom.

The plant that I left in perlite but switched to top watering is doing far better than the one I shaved, however at almost 6 weeks into a 10 week flower my pistils are turning orange so I think they are hermying on me. I can't find any nanners but they must be hiding somewhere in there.

Poor plant has had a $hitty life.

I have a few ideas for my next swick attempt but it won't happen until winter at the earliest. I want to get a couple crops to finish first.

I need to dial in my new light before I start sciencing things plus I haven't ran a flower crop since I harvested in February so I am dying to see some colas.

I also added a UV bar so I need to grow how I know to be able to tell if it's making a difference.

I'm also thinking of doing a 1 plant 40 gallon scrog to fill my 5 x 5 tent so I will start a batch of soil in the next week or 2 and in about 5 months when these sproutlings are finished I can start that project.

So for now I'm going back to using dripper lines on a timer. It's how I have the best luck.

Here is an interesting tidbit though... I also swicked my pomegranate tree, my fig tree, and a clone from my red currant bush which is fairly tree-like, and they absolutely love it.

I have both pomegranates and figs forming and the plants are very healthy and growing beautifully.

I think trees, which by natures design, have a water seeking tap root, swick much better.

I am top watering them as well to keep the EWC leaching in.

 

[Carmen Ray]

My theory is that I think water roots need to be fed hydroponically and feeder roots need to be fed organically and when you use living soil it is designed to be consumed by feeder roots but swicking promotes water roots so synthetic folks will have great success with bottom watering as synthetics are specifically designed to be chelated and then drank by the water roots.

This makes sense.

I think if you boil it right down it's actually a myco problem.... The top goes dry so myco goes dormant and starvation sets in.

Oh right! I was feeding mycos but obviously it takes time for the microherd to reestablish and it probably doesn't happen in time for an auto plant or a plant in flower.

I think a hybrid model of a swick that also gets regular top watering will probably work. I think that if your swick reservoir was filled from runoff and not from a watering can poured directly into the perlite that your grow would do better.

I don't think its lockout, I think its a lack of feeder roots to eat organically and a lack of fertigation for the water roots so the plant ends up starving.

Okay!

If you rescued it with synthetics in the redervoir you would likely see instant positive results.

Every swick I tried, at a certain point, grew so many water roots at the bottom of the cloth pot that water could not get past them and the top half of the pot went dusty dry.

This!

When I top water I get a bag completely filled with feeder roots from top to bottom.

The plant that I left in perlite but switched to top watering is doing far better than the one I shaved, however at almost 6 weeks into a 10 week flower my pistils are turning orange so I think they are hermying on me. I can't find any nanners but they must be hiding somewhere in there.

Oh no! My pistils turned orange early too. I hope there are no nanners. I haven't seen any! I'll have to keep an eye on them.

Poor plant has had a $hitty life.

Ditto

I have a few ideas for my next swick attempt but it won't happen until winter at the earliest. I want to get a couple crops to finish first.

I'm looking forward!

I need to dial in my new light before I start sciencing things plus I haven't ran a flower crop since I harvested in February so I am dying to see some colas.

I bet!

I also added a UV bar so I need to grow how I know to be able to tell if it's making a difference.

I'm also thinking of doing a 1 plant 40 gallon scrog to fill my 5 x 5 tent so I will start a batch of soil in the next week or 2 and in about 5 months when these sproutlings are finished I can start that project.

So for now I'm going back to using dripper lines on a timer. It's how I have the best luck.

So a steady moisture from the top, rather than watering to run-off and drying?

Here is an interesting tidbit though... I also swicked my pomegranate tree, my fig tree, and a clone from my red currant bush which is fairly tree-like, and they absolutely love it.

I have both pomegranates and figs forming and the plants are very healthy and growing beautifully.

I think trees, which by natures design, have a water seeking tap root, swick much better.

Interesting indeed.

I am top watering them as well to keep the EWC leaching in.

Okay!

Thanks Gee. Your insights are much appreciated. I'm looking forward to watching you grow colas!

 

[Gee64]

Carmen I have found that dripper lines do 2 things really well.

They make it easy to maintain proper soil moisture if you use a timer, which will need to be increased as the grow progresses,

and it is so gentle that it doesn't disturb soil structure like flood watering with a watering can does.

Plus I'm lazy

I do dripper to runoff at least once every couple weeks to make sure I have no dry spots in the pot.

 

[Gee64]

You're the Shed and you're quite right about this soil. It definitely plays a role here.

I hope this is going to help figure out what needs to be done to correct the yellowing going forward.

Yes.

Don't feel bad about commercial soil letting you down Carmen. I searched far and wide and only found one commercial brand that is almost water only (you always need at least a top added calcium additive) so cooking your own is the best way.

Of all the recipes I have tried, The Rev's is by far the best. It IS a high brix recipe. I haven't even added calcium to my outdoor pots and in 10gal sacks under the desert sun brix are between 22 and 25 on the 4 plants, and that was a week ago.

I won't test anymore now as flower has started and I need the leaves left on the plant.

Don't be too proud to include calmag if you need it. The reason it is always mentioned is because it always works.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Don't feel bad about commercial soil letting you down Carmen. I searched far and wide and only found one commercial brand that is almost water only (you always need at least a top added calcium additive) so cooking your own is the best way.

I know. I have space issues so I can't cook my own. The new soil I am going to try is hand mixed. The Orgasoilux is machine mixed. The hand mixed soil is more refined.

Of all the recipes I have tried, The Rev's is by far the best. It IS a high brix recipe. I haven't even added calcium to my outdoor pots and in 10gal sacks under the desert sun brix are between 22 and 25 on the 4 plants, and that was a week ago.

Amazing! I believe his mix to be tops. I'd use it if I had the space etc.

I won't test anymore now as flower has started and I need the leaves left on the plant.

Don't be too proud to include calmag if you need it. The reason it is always mentioned is because it always works.

After chatting to Nick and Shed yesterday I'm going to give the plants calmag with every watering going forward.

 

[Gee64]

I know. I have space issues so I can't cook my own. The new soil I am going to try is hand mixed. The Orgasoilux is machine mixed. The hand mixed soil is more refined.

Amazing! I believe his mix to be tops. I'd use it if I had the space etc.

After chatting to Nick and Shed yesterday I'm going to give the plants calmag with every watering going forward.

I don't know if every watering is needed forever, but here is an easy way to tell if you need it.

Let the pot dry out until its fairly light but not wilty. If the dry soil up top is soft and fluffy then calcium is good. If it is getting crusty or lumpy then you need to add it.

Too much will turn your soil to dust and burn your leaf tips.

Top dressing will almost always go crusty after the 1st one or 2 waterings but thats different and normal, just crumble that up.

It's the day to day regular grind that you want to observe to see if the top goes crusty. It shouldn't be crusty at all, It should be as fluffy as it was on transplant day.

 

[NickHardy]

After reading about wtf Brix was (it would be awesome if someone could write an intro to Brix for the links that Rob pulled together) I skimmed Doc Bud’s High Brix blend - they sell the stuff for it. An immediate takeaway thinking of you, Carmen, was the importance of Calcium. Stuff is badass! So in hydro/coco its daily. Every single day for me. Your soil needs some serious calcium cajones embedded in it to match all that? So throw it in from up top and next grow pack it in. Along with rock dust that can be turned to sugar by microbes and all sorts of stuff.

Laters I have some reading to do!

Nick

 

[Gee64]

Nick nailed it

 

[Gee64]

Nick just keep this in mind, all high brix is, is a way to increase photosynthesis. It's not a top secret thing no matter what the commercial world wants you to think. And yes, it all starts with calcium. It always does.

Unconditioned soil won't work very well.

High brix is a fancy term for "healthy" and is the only way a seed can achieve maximum genetic potential.

We actually shouldn't strive for high brix, we should strive to stay away from low brix.

Marketing programmed us to see it backwards.

If you are growing organically and are getting to harvest with no deficiencies and no bugs you probably already have a high brix count.

 

[InTheShed]

synthetics are specifically designed to be chelated

I'm not sure where all this chelation info comes from but that's not the difference between synthetic and organic grows. Synthetic nutes are built from elemental salts, designed to be immediately accessible by the roots, where organics need a microherd to deliver the elememts in the soil to the roots.

Less than 1% of synthetic nutes are chelated. Here is an excellent explanation of chelation for anyone whose interested in the science.

 

[Gee64]

I'm not sure where all this chelation info comes from but that's not the difference between synthetic and organic grows. Synthetic nutes are built from elemental salts, designed to be immediately accessible by the roots, where organics need a microherd to deliver the elememts in the soil to the roots.

Less than 1% of synthetic nutes are chelated. Here is an excellent explanation of chelation for anyone whose interested in the science.

Yeah you are probably right Shed. I really know nothing about synthetics other than you rinse the food across the roots. Aren't the salts attached to things like iron? Again I probably have it wrong. Chelation may not be the correct word. Suspension may be a better choice. Don't you guys add calcium 1st to set the charge so the salts combine properly to avoid lockout? What exactly is chelation in synthetics? or is it not part of synthetics at all?

 

[InTheShed]

What exactly is chelation in synthetics? or is it not part of synthetics at all?

It's easier to point you to farside's great post in the link above than try to recreate the wheel!

 

[NickHardy]

Don't you guys add calcium 1st to set the charge so the salts combine properly to avoid lockout?

Cal Mag always first in the mix and that sounds like a very plausible reason why - I have read at least two versions, tours seems neat.

 

[InTheShed]

Potassium silicate is first because it will precipitate out the other elements if it's added later. I'm not sure why calcium or magnesium would need to go in first since there are both in many nutrient bottles.

Also, neither calcium nor magnesium are chelated. Only the tiniest micronutrients like iron and manganese are.