Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg & More! CFL's - LED - HPS

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Hi J, you're quick! LOL That particular plant has been that way from the start. That's why I call it a Mutant. ;-) Never could figure out what was going on. I'm using CFL's mix of 2700k and higher. The lights are 6" above the plants. There are two fans keeping the heat out, they are pointed mostly at the lights, so there really isn't any heat on the plants right now. All of the other plants are doing very well, no signs of stress. This one does it no matter where I move it or rotate in different positions, so it's a mystery plant.
Does the center one look like early flower to you?

When the plant is mature in veg it will show sex (pistols, balls) ...it won't flower (unless it's an auto) until you have it on a 12/12 lighting schedule

...I think I might see a couple pistols but I really cant see it all that well...it will flower soon enough...good luck buddy:thumb:
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

...it won't flower (unless it's an auto)
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. This new growth that I see is totally different than what I've been seeing on it and almost looks like it is flowering in several areas. I was thinking maybe the seed company put the auto flower seed in the wrong bag when sent. That would certainly explain why this plant looks so much different than the others for sure.
Thanks for the good luck charm. ;-)
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

hi mate,

right lets look at these pics,
ill start with pic 1, i see 1 or maybe 2 problems that need putting right before we can look at anything else like ph etc etc,
so this is what i see,
1, you see the leaves that are cupping up at the edges, well the plants does this when its to hot, it cups up so it can lose more moisture when the wind blows on it, so you either need to use fans to get the temps down a bit or raise the light a few inches and see how the plant looks 24 hours later, the only other thing that can cause this is if you have a fan blowing directly on the plant to strong but to me it certainly looks like heat stress, when the plant is heat stressed it stretches which if these plants where outdoors is not a problem, the plants stretch so they can get taller and reach cooler air or at least catch some of the breeze, indoors the plants stretch an just get into warmer air so the problem just gets worse,

so you either need to try and lower the temps using fans or you need to raise the light a few inches, if the grow room is to hot then try leaving the door open a few inches when the lights are on, my door is open 6 to 8 inches when the lights are on as temps get to high as i dont have vents due to the space im growing in, so i leave the door open, i have 2 x 12v computer fans inside the room moving air over the plant, 12v fans are not harsh on the plants but move enough air to gently shake the tops of the plants, outside the door i have a desk fan sitting on a chair and i turn this on for an hour or 2 at least 2 times a day, its not on all the time but i turn it on for 2 hours then off then back on later on in the day as this helps strengthen the stem,

now for problem 2, this might not be a problem as it could all be heat stress related, its not in flower or showing sex yet by the looks of it, but it looks to me like its either over watered and thats what causes the wrinkled leaves, it also looks a light green which again suggests its over watered and the roots are not getting as much oxygen as they need, when this happens roots die and the plant wilts as it cant take in the water and nutrients it needed, so keep an eye on how often you water and see how heavy the pot is, the plants like plenty of oxygen at the roots so i only water my plants every 7 plus days depending on temps, growth drastically slows when you over water, ive had this problem a few times when i first started growing, i couldnt work out why they wasnt growing and then i found out i was over watering and the plant could not take in the oxygen it needed,

so check the temps, if you have a temp guage then try and hold it at the same hight as the top of the plant and leave it their for a few minutes then check the temps, check how often you water and check the drain holes in the pot if you can and make sure their not clogged up, then just let the pot dry out before you water next, when the pots a bit dry the plant does suffer with heat problems if the temps are a tad to high, so your problem could just be down to temps or temps and over watering,

if its not over watered and it is left to dry out then are you feeding any nutrients yet, if the leaves are starting to look a light green colour then this is usually because its overwated and its not taking in the nutrients and water it needs, or its a lighter green as its used up all the nutrients and it now needs feeding,

so let us know how often your watering and how often your feeding nutrients, i dont think you have a major problem and it should sort itself out in a day or 2 as long as temps are kept in check and your not over watering,

if you have any more problems or it gets much worse then post another pic and explain whats going on, but at this stage the comments about heat being the problem is pretty much spot on, ph problems can also cause cupping or curling but it looks slightly less like cupping where as yours looks exactly like its cuppling,

pm me again if you need to get hold of me a bit quicker or feel free to post a help request in my journal and im sure someone will come over and offer advice if im not on here,
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

hi mate,

right lets look at these pics,
ill start with pic 1, i see 1 or maybe 2 problems that need putting right before we can look at anything else like ph etc etc,
so this is what i see,
1, you see the leaves that are cupping up at the edges, well the plants does this when its to hot, it cups up so it can lose more moisture when the wind blows on it, so you either need to use fans to get the temps down a bit or raise the light a few inches and see how the plant looks 24 hours later, the only other thing that can cause this is if you have a fan blowing directly on the plant to strong but to me it certainly looks like heat stress, when the plant is heat stressed it stretches which if these plants where outdoors is not a problem, the plants stretch so they can get taller and reach cooler air or at least catch some of the breeze, indoors the plants stretch an just get into warmer air so the problem just gets worse,

so you either need to try and lower the temps using fans or you need to raise the light a few inches, if the grow room is to hot then try leaving the door open a few inches when the lights are on, my door is open 6 to 8 inches when the lights are on as temps get to high as i dont have vents due to the space im growing in, so i leave the door open, i have 2 x 12v computer fans inside the room moving air over the plant, 12v fans are not harsh on the plants but move enough air to gently shake the tops of the plants, outside the door i have a desk fan sitting on a chair and i turn this on for an hour or 2 at least 2 times a day, its not on all the time but i turn it on for 2 hours then off then back on later on in the day as this helps strengthen the stem,

now for problem 2, this might not be a problem as it could all be heat stress related, its not in flower or showing sex yet by the looks of it, but it looks to me like its either over watered and thats what causes the wrinkled leaves, it also looks a light green which again suggests its over watered and the roots are not getting as much oxygen as they need, when this happens roots die and the plant wilts as it cant take in the water and nutrients it needed, so keep an eye on how often you water and see how heavy the pot is, the plants like plenty of oxygen at the roots so i only water my plants every 7 plus days depending on temps, growth drastically slows when you over water, ive had this problem a few times when i first started growing, i couldnt work out why they wasnt growing and then i found out i was over watering and the plant could not take in the oxygen it needed,

so check the temps, if you have a temp guage then try and hold it at the same hight as the top of the plant and leave it their for a few minutes then check the temps, check how often you water and check the drain holes in the pot if you can and make sure their not clogged up, then just let the pot dry out before you water next, when the pots a bit dry the plant does suffer with heat problems if the temps are a tad to high, so your problem could just be down to temps or temps and over watering,

if its not over watered and it is left to dry out then are you feeding any nutrients yet, if the leaves are starting to look a light green colour then this is usually because its overwated and its not taking in the nutrients and water it needs, or its a lighter green as its used up all the nutrients and it now needs feeding,

so let us know how often your watering and how often your feeding nutrients, i dont think you have a major problem and it should sort itself out in a day or 2 as long as temps are kept in check and your not over watering,

if you have any more problems or it gets much worse then post another pic and explain whats going on, but at this stage the comments about heat being the problem is pretty much spot on, ph problems can also cause cupping or curling but it looks slightly less like cupping where as yours looks exactly like its cuppling,

pm me again if you need to get hold of me a bit quicker or feel free to post a help request in my journal and im sure someone will come over and offer advice if im not on here,
:thanks:
Okay, I'm watering every 3 days on all of the plants but not to the soaking point. A small amount of run off in the trays. The other plants are doing so well that I don't want to change the routine. The soil Ph and water PH are within range. I think I'm going to separate this mutant from the pack with it's own light and fan and see what happens.
Because my soil is good for a couple to 3 weeks with it's own nutes, I haven't added any of that yet either. I see no signs on the other plants that anything is awry, so haven't thought of doing that as yet. The room temp has stayed steady between 69 and 72 degrees and humidity is normal too, and there is not heat coming off the bulbs when I put my hand under them because of the fans pointed at them. This is just a picky azzed darned plant apparently. :)
I will take the suggestions in and work on them in the morning. Thanks everybody!
Oh, I will cut back the watering to every 5 days and see what happens too. I've been lifting the pots and was getting a pretty good feel for when they were dry....or so I thought. LOL
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

ok cool

so all the plants are getting the same temps and its only that one with the problems, try and get a temp gauge and hang it at the top of the plant or in the same area where the plant was, temps may be low but if you leave touch some metal thats been out in the sun for a few hours then its much hotter than the outdoor temps, so this can happen with the plants as well, the heat slowly builds up and temps get high, so keep an eye on things for a day or 2, the only thing that can cause cupping is high temps or ph issues,

if your not over watering then the roots are ok and will be taking in enough water to feed the plant, if the roots dont get oxygen then they start to die and the plant then wilts and suffers heat stress as its not getting the moisture it needs, but if all the plants are in the same temps then it could just be the strain, when i grow autos i find they suffer with heat more than other plants, if my other plants look fine then the auto can be showing signs of it been to hot, they also dont seem to like nutrients as much as regular photo plants.

so just keep an eye on things, check the weight of the pot and make sure it feels pretty light before you water, if it helps fill the same size pot with the same growing medium then leave that empty pot totally dry, you have then got something to compare the weight to,

its only ph and heat that causes cupping, so try the plant in a cooler place and if after 24 to 48 hours it looks better then you know it was temps, if it looks the same then you know their is another problem so we need to think of something else then, just put the plant somewhere cooler for a couple of days and see how it looks, it usually takes 24 to 48 hours for the plant to go back to normal,

let us know how it looks when you have tried cooler temps,
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I have to respectfully disagree with you DP. If the plant was showing heat or PH stress, wouldn't the plant in pic 2 also show some signs? I think that if the seed got swapped and it was a sensitive auto as you suggest then it does make sense. However this does not explain the bumpy toadskin texture to the leaves right? I think that it is a random mutation, or perhaps even a virus, or maybe just an odd growth pattern which started from when the seed first cracked.

Regarding flowering in the first picture, I see no pistils. It looks like new leaves coming out to me. As the larger leaves come out they can look different than previous growth. In the second picture it could possible be pistils, but could also be leaves. When my plants first showed sex this tiny little green tip of tooth pic popped out in the same spot. After about three days a tiny little greenish(at first) pistil appeared. From what I have seen so far, male parts come out rounder than female ones, as far a sex parts. The male flower also has a greater difference in shades of green. So you will see dark green stripes against a lime green background. If you take a much closer picture, perhaps it will be more clear. Here are a couple of pics from Splinter from when she was a teen.
mixed_053.jpg
mixed_054.jpg

I hope this is helpful to you :)

I remembered one more thing. In BrokeAssRegs thread he has a pic of a male(early flower) in post #420, I thought this number was ironic and that was why I remember. And I have a knack for memorizing pointless things :?
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Hey canna -

Your plants have really gotten big since the last time I was able to drop by. Nice work with the LST.

Does the plant that has the curling of the leaves have any other weird symptoms? I was having a lot of problems with what I thought was heat or light stress but it ended up being cal/mg deficiency. It started with my leaves curling up.
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

:nomo:It's 4:30-ish a.m. and a massive round of thunderstorms has me up and awake. I do love a good thunderstorm...but the last couple of years they've been damaging. So hopefully when daylight comes I won't see any trees down. LOL
You guys are just a load of information, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you with your knowledge and quick responses here.:thanks:
Jay and DP:
As soon as the plants' dark time is over, couple of hours yet, I'm going to go ahead and separate the lil' mutant as I stated and give it some space of it's own where it's cooler. Too bad there isn't a plant heat tester out there on the market.....well there probably is, just can't be afforded.:laugh: Just touch the plant and get a reading of it's body temp. LOL
I will update you on how it looks with pictures after a few days in solitary confinement.

Rainstacks:
Thanks so much for those pics you sent and I will head over to brokeassreg's thread right now. After looking at what you sent, I think it's new leaves too. Darn! Was hoping I had some sure signs of a female there. LOL I did bring home a better pair of jewelers headsets last night, but didn't use them when I took those pics. Ebay has some fairly good listings for USB/LED lit microscopes, I am watching and thinking on those. I will need one soon, thinking at least 100x magnification?

Hijinks:
Nice to see you again bud! Yeah, they are growing like weeds. :biglaugh: The problem plant doesn't have any other signs, other than the wrinkled/cupped leaves which has been there since it broke ground. All of the other plants recovered from the over watering while seedlings and the root bound issue from the cups being too small, except this one which displayed much different symptoms and stayed that way.
Well, off to get more coffee. Have a great day/evening everyone!
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Alrighty then! I put the lil' spoiled 'chit in isolation this morning. I hung the light twice as high as the rest of the plants have, I felt the soil with my finger tip way down and it didn't feel wet, so I'll leave it be a couple of days. I also have a small fan pointed up toward the light. There is no heat getting to the plant at all.
IsolationMutant.jpg

And here's the rest of the garden after rotating and tending to:
9-192.jpg

9-19.jpg
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

the plant with the wrinkled leaves is most likely a defective gene, if it continues to be weak i would kill it and focus on the other plants. it appears to have a heat or cooling issue as well.
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

the plant with the wrinkled leaves is most likely a defective gene, if it continues to be weak i would kill it and focus on the other plants. it appears to have a heat or cooling issue as well.
I would much rather have a defective "Jan"....then at least I would have been able to say there was female in the bunch.:biglaugh:
But you could be right KJC, I'm not going to have a separate lighting/cooling for just one fussy plant for long. It's got till Monday to shape up or it will be shipped out! ;-)
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

the plant with the wrinkled leaves is most likely a defective gene, if it continues to be weak i would kill it and focus on the other plants. it appears to have a heat or cooling issue as well.

I would much rather have a defective "Jan"....then at least I would have been able to say there was female in the bunch.:biglaugh:
But you could be right KJC, I'm not going to have a separate lighting/cooling for just one fussy plant for long. It's got till Monday to shape up or it will be shipped out! ;-)

Noooooooooo........................(like in slomo in the movies:) :rofl:
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I don't think this lil' mutant is ever going to look any different, I think it is what it is.
I wonder what would happen if I forced it into flower? Should I try it? I mean, if I'm going to waste lighting separately on it anyway....maybe it will give some awesome buds and I can clone it? I just hate to throw things out...ya know?
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

As long as you have space to flower it I would clone it and see what comes of it in flower. There are some genetics that exhibit wrinkled leaves and such. But not sure about this plant you have. My grape krush will do this with some of her leaves sometimes.

Really good job for the newest of noobs. +reps
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Hi Cannafan,

I'm only on my 3rd grow but I've had a mutant or two. I moved all my plants into flower because I had more space than I needed and low and behold, by the time the flowering was over I couldn't tell the mutants from the others. I say give it a chance, what the heck.

:cheertwo:
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I think cloning and flowering is a great idea. I have heard that in general when looking for good genetics you want look for 5/7/9 etc healthy leaves. Any type of deformity is usually going to have a negative result. This was told to me by a very experienced gardener and cannabis cultivator when I told him about my mutties. It may be a good idea to clone just for the practice though. That way you can save genetics of a plant that turns out really well for you also. If I were in your position I would contact the seed company and ask for another seed (or maybe even seeds for the inconvenience of having to start one again). I love the mutty, but to be practical you are using resources that perhaps could be used to grow a plant that is know to be solid. If anything it will be interesting to see what it looks like as it develops, since it is so unusual :)
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

As long as you have space to flower it I would clone it and see what comes of it in flower. There are some genetics that exhibit wrinkled leaves and such. But not sure about this plant you have. My grape krush will do this with some of her leaves sometimes.

Really good job for the newest of noobs. +reps
Thanks Shottafire! I think I"m still going to give this kid to Monday and see if there are any changes at all, (out of curiosity mostly) I won't water at all either. Then I might just go ahead and take a clone and then put it in flower. I figure I need to see a flower process anyway...why not see it early with one that is expendable if something goes wrong?:biglaugh:
I am feeling less like a Noob right now.....however...I think that will come back when I start with my nute program. I'm jittery about that. :biglaugh:
Have a great day and good luck on the MOTM contest...so far you've got a great lead!:cheesygrinsmiley:
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Hi Cannafan,

I'm only on my 3rd grow but I've had a mutant or two. I moved all my plants into flower because I had more space than I needed and low and behold, by the time the flowering was over I couldn't tell the mutants from the others. I say give it a chance, what the heck.

:cheertwo:
Hi LadyJane420! I've been watching yours and you're having fun too. :-) I am going to give the plant a chance, just can't see tossing it when I can use it for learning.
Grow on!:high-five:
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I think cloning and flowering is a great idea. I have heard that in general when looking for good genetics you want look for 5/7/9 etc healthy leaves. Any type of deformity is usually going to have a negative result. This was told to me by a very experienced gardener and cannabis cultivator when I told him about my mutties. It may be a good idea to clone just for the practice though. That way you can save genetics of a plant that turns out really well for you also. If I were in your position I would contact the seed company and ask for another seed (or maybe even seeds for the inconvenience of having to start one again). I love the mutty, but to be practical you are using resources that perhaps could be used to grow a plant that is know to be solid. If anything it will be interesting to see what it looks like as it develops, since it is so unusual :)
Hey Rain! Congrats on winning my trivia Q!
Good idea on the seed, if this plant stays the way it is. I'll just mention it on my next order and see if they'll do anything. I'm certainly happy with the rest of the seeds and the fast shipping.
I did some research today, but used a different search term... I think it was mutated or something like that. I did see a few pics that looked similar to this plant, but when I got to the sites everyone was pretty much guessing at the cause. Usually PH or magnesium. I find that hard to believe because this plant has gotten exactly the same thing from the start that the healthy plants have received.
So, I've pretty much decided that I'll take a clone on Sunday and if it doesn't look any different Monday I'll force it into flower. FUN!!
Take care my friend. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

ive also had the odd mutant in the past, but they usually sort themselves out after 4th or 5th node, i find once the plants gets bigger the problem sort of fades away, different strains repond different to temps, ive had several strains that show heat stress when others dont, when this happens i just move the plant with the problem to a corner of the grow room so its further away from the light then it sorts itself out, i know autos tend to suffer with heat stress more than regular plants, the auto northern lights and auto bubble both show signs of heat stress unless their further away from the plants, but then you need to think where ruderalis grows, it grows in pretty cool climate in mountains so growing it under regular temps is going to cause issues unless the breeder has worked with the strain to breed that trait out,

but as we all know each strain will have 2 or more pheno types so out of 10 seeds you could end up with 5 plants that suffer with heat or have a genetic issue and 5 that dont have any problems at all, if you look on the seed banks you will see some strains have 4 or 5 pheno types from the seeds.

different strains grow in different parts of the world, uk cheese is used to a more humid and cooler environment compared with a kush or flash type strain, so you will always get slight variances depending on the back ground of the strains, i bought a blue mystic about 18months ago and it was badly deformed and stopped growing and died at the 4th node, so i searched on the net and many other growers had the exact same issue, some on this site and some on other sites and the problem was with this one breeders seeds, so i had it replaced by the seed bank but with a different strain as they pulled it from sale, its back on sale now so i bought some a couple of weeks back so will try that strain again when i get room.

so just see how it does now the lights a bit higher, give it 48 hours and see how it looks, if its showing signs of looking better then it could be just down to heat stress, low humidity can also cause a similar problem if temps are to high as the plant uses more moisture than its taking in, i can only give you info i have picked up from my own experience and others will have different ideas and different cures,

check out the plant help guide in my sig below, it covers all types of plant problems so that may help you in future if you have anymore issues,
 
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