Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg & More! CFL's - LED - HPS

Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

PeeJay said:
What I'd mentioned in the other thread, Jay, was that diatomatious earth makes one heck of a mess! One way to get it onto the underside of the leaves without getting it all over is by putting it in a "puffer" bottle. I made one with a tube that held graphite for lubricating locks, etc. Cut the bottom of the tube, empty the graphite, fill with DE, tape closed. It still goes everywhere and don't inhale the stuff! The DM will kill mites and most other small insects. Getting it only where you want it and not all over is the challenge...
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That is great info..reps to ya :thumb:
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Well, crap....I got confused on whether the DE does or does not work on spider mites. LOL
Peejay's post says yeah. Well, I'm buying some just in case. ;-)
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Cannafan said:
Well, crap....I got confused on whether the DE does or does not work on spider mites. LOL
Peejay's post says yeah. Well, I'm buying some just in case. ;-)
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I read the same...you just don't see anyone doing so.....especially with fans in our rooms and the need NOT to inhale the dust.

I want some for my soil as well, but I don't think I will use it for foliage contol.
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Jay233 said:
This I know ...diatomacous earth for fungas gnats...neem oil, horticultural oil, or water with a little dish soap for spider mites

I have treated hundred of plants for spider mites (not my cannibis plants :)) there are other methods of control but I prefer the ones I recommended...non toxic
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I certainly do not mean to speak for the King but I am pretty sure he will agree. The Diatomacous earth is for gnats and I don't think they would work for the spider mites because they actually have to be in the soil because it works by cutting up the insects and spider mites are mostly on the plant itself I think. Like Jay said you will need something that will treat the underneath of the leaves to effectively get rid of them.... Good luck...:thumb:
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Here's some manufacturer info on Diatomaceous earth: This is in DUST form

MotherEarth D consists of 100% diatomaceous earth which is the fossilized skeletal remains of single celled phytoplankton commonly referred to as diatoms. It works by dehydrating insects through a desiccating action. The absorptive properties of the fossilized cell-walls easily remove the cuticle's outer waxy layer. This results in the loss of an insect's ability to maintain proper fluid levels-ultimately leading to death. Unlike boric acid dusts that work best when ingested, MotherEarth D only requires contact with the insect to be effective.

Mother Earth D Features:

Highly absorptive desiccant dust100% high purity freshwater diatomaceous earthLong lasting dust provides continuous protection from pestsEasily covers cracks, crevices, and voidsMined straight from Mother Earth for your sensitive accounts
How do I use Mother D?

INDOOR USE

Insects ANTS, COCKROACHES, EARWIGS, SPIDERS AND OTHER CRAWLING INSECTS: Using a hand duster, apply lightly in dry areas where crawling insect pests are found or may hide, including cracks and crevices, along baseboards, around sinks, cabinets, refrigerators and stoves and in attics and basements. Direct contact with dry dust is required for effective control.

FLEAS: To control fleas infesting pet areas, thoroughly treat floor and bedding in and around pet's sleeping quarters. Treat surrounding cracks and crevices, baseboards, furniture, carpeting and wherever fleas are suspected. Apply a thin coat of dust to rugs and carpets. Rake (not sweep) nap back and forth, causing dust to enter rug or carpet. Let product sit overnight. Repeat application as necessary and vacuum every 3 - 4 days for effective flea control. MotherEarth D will kill fleas and help deodorize carpet or rug.

OUTDOOR USE

ANTS, EARWIGS, MITES, SPIDERS AND OTHER CRAWLING INSECTS: Using a hand duster or other equipment suitable for application of dusts, dust lightly in areas where insects are found such as windowsills and doorframes, around foundations and along ant trails. Direct contact with dry dust is required for effective control. Repeat treatment in problem areas as necessary for control. Mother Earth D Features: Highly absorptive desiccant dust100% high purity freshwater diatomaceous earthLong lasting dust provides continuous protection from pestsEasily covers cracks, crevices, and voids
Broad spectrum desiccant dust for long lasting control of crawling insects

Highly absorptive desiccant dust

100% high purity freshwater diatomaceous earth

Long lasting dust provides continuous protection from pests

Easily covers cracks, crevices, and voids

Mined straight from Mother Earth

This product consists of the skeletal remains of fresh water diatoms, mined from the earth. Contains amorphous silicon dioxide this product is intended for indoor and outdoor use to control ants, cockroaches, earwigs, fleas, mites, spiders and other crawling insects.

KILLS: Ants (including foraging Carpenter, Fire and Harvester ants), Asian Lady Beetles, Bed Bugs, Bees, Black Carpet Beetles, Boxelder Bugs, Cigarette Beetles, Cluster Flies, Confused Flour Beetles, Crickets, Darkling Beetles, Drugstore Beetles, Earwigs, Firebrats, Fleas, Furniture Carpet Beetles, German Cockroaches, Ground Beetles, Hide Beetles, Hornets, Indianmeal Moths, Lesser Grain Borers, Merchant Grain Beetles, Millipedes, Mites, Paper Wasps, Phorid Flies, Pillbugs, Red Flour Beetles, Rice Weevils, Rusty Grain, Beetles, Sawtoothed Grain Beetles, Silverfish, Sowbugs, Spider Beetles, Spiders, Varied Carpet Beetles, Warehouse Beetles, Wasps, Webbing Clothes Moths and Yellowjackets.
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

The best non-toxic method of control for prolific sucking and piercing insects such as spider mites is suffocation by a fine grade oil that will still allow light to penetrate so the plant can photosinthisize...many methods will work but FULL control is necessary or you will be fighting a losing battle

I am not giving this information based on something I read or using a method of control a few times. I have controlled these insects on many different plants for 20 years as a licensed arborist and pesticide applicator

Just letting you guys know what the BEST method of non-toxic control is

Gotta go plow some snow :( ...have a great day everyone :)
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Good info Jay! Come and plow my snow too. You'll have to do it again in an hour so with all the blowing and drifting going on. LOL
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Dennise said:
I certainly do not mean to speak for the King but I am pretty sure he will agree. The Diatomacous earth is for gnats and I don't think they would work for the spider mites because they actually have to be in the soil because it works by cutting up the insects and spider mites are mostly on the plant itself I think. Like Jay said you will need something that will treat the underneath of the leaves to effectively get rid of them.... Good luck...:thumb:
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In the other thread the question was, "would diatomatious earth kill spider mites?" The answer is yes it will. The problem is it makes a mess and you have to get it to adhere to the bottom of the leaf. Is it the best way? Nope.

I have spent many hours spraying dormant trees with horticultural oil before they blossom. Neem works better than hort oil because it contains a compound that messes up growth and reproduction of bugs. The compound is azadirachtin and it is isolated from neem oil and mixed with oil and surfacants in products like Azatrol. If you trust the EPA ( and shouldn't we all, lol ) azadirachitin is safe for humans and the environment and it is OMRI certified for use in organic farming. In fact, it has the same glowing minimal risk rating as the rosemary extracts in the SNS spider mite spray. One of the things that makes it so safe is the molecules degrade realy fast. The half life is such that within a couple of weeks there is basically none left. For those who haven't seen the other thread, here is a link to the wiki on azadirachtin. Azadirachtin

I'm not sure that I'd spray Azatrol on plants right before harvest, but a month or so out I wouldn't hesitate. A couple of applications puts the whammy on mites. I found some mite webs around three weeks ago on a large marjoram plant in the greenhouse. I sprayed all the plants in the GH with the Azatrol (except the cannabis) and haven't seen a mite since.

Anyone who would use neem oil and says they wouldn't use azadirachtin doesn't know what they are talking about since azadirachtin is extracted from neem oil. Anyway, that's what I have in my arsenal. I haven't had to use it on my cannabis plants (thank goodness) but it put the whammy on the mites on the marjoram big-time.
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

PeeJay said:
In the other thread the question was, "would diatomatious earth kill spider mites?" The answer is yes it will. The problem is it makes a mess and you have to get it to adhere to the bottom of the leaf. Is it the best way? Nope.

I have spent many hours spraying dormant trees with horticultural oil before they blossom. Neem works better than hort oil because it contains a compound that messes up growth and reproduction of bugs. The compound is azadirachtin and it is isolated from neem oil and mixed with oil and surfacants in products like Azatrol. If you trust the EPA ( and shouldn't we all, lol ) azadirachitin is safe for humans and the environment and it is OMRI certified for use in organic farming. In fact, it has the same glowing minimal risk rating as the rosemary extracts in the SNS spider mite spray. One of the things that makes it so safe is the molecules degrade realy fast. The half life is such that within a couple of weeks there is basically none left. For those who haven't seen the other thread, here is a link to the wiki on azadirachtin. Azadirachtin

I'm not sure that I'd spray Azatrol on plants right before harvest, but a month or so out I wouldn't hesitate. A couple of applications puts the whammy on mites. I found some mite webs around three weeks ago on a large marjoram plant in the greenhouse. I sprayed all the plants in the GH with the Azatrol (except the cannabis) and haven't seen a mite since.

Anyone who would use neem oil and says they wouldn't use azadirachtin doesn't know what they are talking about since azadirachtin is extracted from neem oil. Anyway, that's what I have in my arsenal. I haven't had to use it on my cannabis plants (thank goodness) but it put the whammy on the mites on the marjoram big-time.
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HEY PeeJay...I HIGHLY RESPECT YOUR OPINION...so please don't think I am being confrontational in any way...here is the front on my box of azadirachtin (most commonly available)...it is toxic (although more affective...I agree) fine grade oil is the best for our plants which we consume...full coverage with the oil is what is necessary for full control...a little dish soap in water works perfect with a couple applications...super cheap too...its free :)
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

My point is most people will buy this instead because it is commonly available at grow shops

image7905.jpg
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I hear ya, Jay, and respect your opinion as well. You don't want to get that stuff in your eyes or drink a glass of it for sure! The same is true of horticultural oils (usually based on mineral oils.) The best thing would be not to have to use anything. If the brix is high the suckers hate it... If someone gets spider mites azatrol or azamite will clean their clock. It is ORMI certified, has a short half-life, and won't exist for all practical purposes after a week or so. Dr. Bronners castile soap is a great soap alternative (the peppermint one is a great bong cleaner, too - leaves your glass minty fresh.) I'm not sure I want to smoke soap or oil - other than the natural oils found in the herb.

The safest thing is having super healthy plants with a thick waxy cuticle and high brix. Bugs just don't like that and will stay away!

There are also many recipes for rosemary essential oil bug repellents out there. Making your own is probably much cheaper than buying some name brand rosemary oil based spray.
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

PeeJay said:
I hear ya, Jay, and respect your opinion as well. You don't want to get that stuff in your eyes or drink a glass of it for sure! The same is true of horticultural oils (usually based on mineral oils.) The best thing would be not to have to use anything. If the brix is high the suckers hate it... If someone gets spider mites azatrol or azamite will clean their clock. It is ORMI certified, has a short half-life, and won't exist for all practical purposes after a week or so. Dr. Bronners castile soap is a great soap alternative (the peppermint one is a great bong cleaner, too - leaves your glass minty fresh.) I'm not sure I want to smoke soap or oil - other than the natural oils found in the herb.

The safest thing is having super healthy plants with a thick waxy cuticle and high brix. Bugs just don't like that and will stay away!
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I agree 100% PeeJay :thumb:

Healthy, non-stressed plants hardly ever have any problems...insects are attracted to weak plants...healthy plants have natural chemical defenses against insects and disease
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Here's an image I captured of the warnings on 70% neem oil. They are the exact same warnings found on my azatrol bottle. Azamax and Azatrol (azadirachtin) are both more effective than neem as shown in university funded double blind studies.

neem.jpg
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

PeeJay said:
Here's an image I captured of the warnings on 70% neem oil. They are the exact same warnings found on my azatrol bottle. Azamax and Azatrol (azadirachtin) are both more effective than neem as shown in university funded double blind studies.

neem.jpg
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Yeah...hort. oil or soap is the best option ...I personally hate chemicals...in the past few years I have gone organic ...urging customers to fix the issues causing weak plants first...weak plants will constantly be plagued by problems requiring more and more chemicals...I have treated many Hemlock trees with Merit (Imidacloprid) to control woolly adelgid the Merit kills all insects including beneficial insects that provide natural control this always led to a rust mite infestation requiring a further control...solving the problems that weakened the plants was far more effective than treating the problems...the solution is to be proactive not reactive
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

No doubt, Jay. Relying on chemicals is bad and creates a vicious cycle. I'm not really bummed that I azatroled the plants in the greenhouse. They are mostly perennials that have been overwintering for use in a container deck garden this summer and fall. The root balls would have frozen and killed the lot if I'd just left them outside. They were not exactly super healthy when I sprayed them for mite prevention. Notice the cannabis that goes out there when it's warm and sunny did not get sprayed. They come in at night or when it's cold and are very healthy. I didn't want the mites going nuts in the greenhouse so I hit 'em hard. There are quite a few jumping spiders in the green house, and I expect the azatrol didn't do them much good, but I have been seeing several again recently - thank goodness. Stuff like neem and azatrol kills good bugs and pollinators like bees, too, even if it is approved for organic farming and is basically safe.

For growers who get a mite infestation from dispensary clones, or whatever, I think azadirachtin is a good choice. Safe due to the short half-life, ORMI certified, and deals them a serious death blow. Still, if you keep the plants healthy, you won't get mites in the first place and spraying those products around your yard or garden has far reaching implications on the whole bio-system around them.
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I would love to sit down with the two of you ...Jay and PeeJay...with a bong and listen to all of that wealth of knowledge being exchanged!
I've learned very good information in your posts. :thanks:

Thank the ganja gods I haven't had any problems with bugs.... (as I knock on wood) LOL
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

gr8fulfor420 said:
Hahaha! ganja gods!! OMG I love it TGIF Canna! happy :bongrip:
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You got that right Gr8Ful!! I was counting down the minutes at work, could NOT wait to get out of there and start my weekend of plant tendin'. :woohoo:
 
Re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Great non-confrontational argument with plenty of info & no egos guys. I love it! Props to Jay & PJ...
 
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