Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I would have kept the one I have anyway, just for the water distilling after seeing the difference.

I'm about to have an issue with a seller though, he stated in a message to me when I asked him about the essential oil making, that it is designed for essential oil extractions. Clearly there are two different units for that.

I might wind up with a distiller FAR below retail cost, not just a good deal...a GREAT deal. LOL

I guess my question at this point is, if it runs too hot....(and I will find out how hot tomorrow) how much degrading of the oil is happening, if any? Enough to be concerned about?
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Cannafan said:
I would have kept the one I have anyway, just for the water distilling after seeing the difference.

I'm about to have an issue with a seller though, he stated in a message to me when I asked him about the essential oil making, that it is designed for essential oil extractions. Clearly there are two different units for that.

I might wind up with a distiller FAR below retail cost, not just a good deal...a GREAT deal. LOL

I guess my question at this point is, if it runs too hot....(and I will find out how hot tomorrow) how much degrading of the oil is happening, if any? Enough to be concerned about?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering why it would have been recommended if it ran so hot that it degraded the oil. Thank you for checking it out Canna. Is it possible we're that far ahead of the learning curve?
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

SweetSue said:
I'm wondering why it would have been recommended if it ran so hot that it degraded the oil. Thank you for checking it out Canna. Is it possible we're that far ahead of the learning curve?
Click to expand...

There are several ways to look at it, the amount of heat that it REALLY takes to start degrading the oil, which I have been looking around for on the net today. I certainly know now that 250 is a safe number....but only by what's reported here. It's a jungle out there...... (anyone with some specific numbers, fly them here!)

The actual temperature of the liquid in the unit when at maximum power in use....

And, the most costly way....take two samples to be tested. One with a water distiller and one with an essential oil distiller.
Can they do that with oil? There are testing places in my county now, but I've never used one.

I want to know these things. :laugh:
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

The site's turning us all into research assistants, isn't it? :laughtwo:

I remember finding info on decarb temps about a year ago, when I was in my first grow. Let me see if I can track that down.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I did find some info on boiling points of THC and that kind of stuff. Interesting reading.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

1. The wash temp stays around 170 deg F as the alcohol boils off because evaporation is a cooling process. Add more heat and the temp stays the same as MORE alcohol is boiled off faster.

2. More water in the alcohol (lower proof) will pull more than just the cannabinoids from the plant....forget it taking a few more minutes to boil off....you're missing the point, it produces a less pure oil. As alcohol proof varies, purity varies, and then dosing requirements vary.

3. Who do you think they'll pay more attention to: 1. A WATER still purchaser........or........2. An ALCOHOL still purchaser?
Amazombie has both. They look identical. One uses 580 watts (water still at $220) and the other uses 320 watts (alcohol still at $190).
Ps. I'll look it up, they may call it an essential oil still rather than an alcohol still. Same thing if alcohol is the solvent and distillate.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

94xjjohn said:
1. The wash temp stays around 170 deg F as the alcohol boils off because evaporation is a cooling process. Add more heat and the temp stays the same as MORE alcohol is boiled off faster.

2. More water in the alcohol (lower proof) will pull more than just the cannabinoids from the plant....forget it taking a few more minutes to boil off....you're missing the point, it produces a less pure oil. As alcohol proof varies, purity varies, and then dosing requirements vary.

3. Who do you think they'll pay more attention to: 1. A WATER still purchaser........or........2. An ALCOHOL still purchaser?
Amazombie has both. They look identical. One uses 580 watts (water still at $220) and the other uses 320 watts (alcohol still at $190).
Click to expand...

I see your point John. I was not aware of the point of the water pulling more cannabinoids. So I didn't miss the point, it just never flew by me. :) I'll bet that's on the how to make oil thread somewhere....
Thank you for bringing up that point.....you get points for that...at some point.

So, we need to stay with the higher proof alcohol to keep our oil purer. That's what you're saying.

And which distiller did you purchase? You were making night time oil, did it come out right fine for ya? Do you think it runs too hot, if it's the water distiller?

The BATF/TTB is going to pay attention to the Alcohol still ie; essential oils still, of course. I think we kind of knew that per the earlier discussions on the manufacturers having to give information when requested by the authorities in charge of that there kind of stuff.

Right now I wish I had learned a little from my uncle before he blew his shed up .....:laugh:
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

94xjjohn said:
1. The wash temp stays around 170 deg F as the alcohol boils off because evaporation is a cooling process. Add more heat and the temp stays the same as MORE alcohol is boiled off faster.
Click to expand...

John, is this referring to the temperature of the liquid in the Distiller as it's processing? I'm trying to understand if the water distiller runs too hot and is somehow degrading the oil in this boil off process, using the 190 proof alcohol, not the watered down stuff. Does faster boil off mean it's pulling too much of what we want out? I hope that makes sense.

:scratchinghead:

Oh Lord, I just went to a home distilling site to learn how this process works....somebody kick me! LOL
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I'm no expert but I would imagine that the essential oil distiller would only be trying to heat up to around 174f degrees since ethanol boils at 173. Where a water distiller would be trying to heat up to 212 degrees. I would think it would just be safer for the process and the oil to use the essential oil distiller. Only one I could find was much more than the water distiller.
:Namaste:
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

HemiSync said:
I'm no expert but I would imagine that the essential oil distiller would only be trying to heat up to around 174f degrees since ethanol boils at 173. Where a water distiller would be trying to heat up to 212 degrees. I would think it would just be safer for the process and the oil to use the essential oil distiller. Only one I could find was much more than the water distiller.
:Namaste:
Click to expand...

That is what I was looking for! I just read that on a distilling site, in much much longer words to understand. LOL :thanks:
Yes, it makes perfect sense that it would be trying to heat it for the water boiling temp.

I should have paid more attention in physics, chemistry, and science classes. Hated it!
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Good grief this went left of center. Lol.
Canna, you'll only ruin the oil in the water still if it goes past the 80% line. If not, the cannabinoids will only be as hot as the boiling point of the ethanol. The 250° is to keep the THC intact & to decarb it.
You should reread the oil making thread. We've posted all this, alot. Our info came from the experts at Skunk Pharms. It is still the latest/greatest.

The issues I have with the water still is that I can't run it long enough to do anything but reclaim or the oil WILL degrade at that point.
2. There's plastic in the top housing. Not a problem for water, but ethanol will degrade it. The essential oil still doesn't have plastic.
3. The gas vent on the water still may be ok if you're venting good, but you're unable to use the off gasing of the ethanol in it. You can't make tinctures, safely use alcohol, you'll lose the warranty using alcohol in the water still...

The list is getting longer for "against" for me. The home mods are not dangerous unless the screwdriver slips. Plug a hole, tear off plastic, easy wire a variable switch. Takes about 20 mins.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Lord have mercy...I am trying to decide what vehicle to purchase to make the oil and I get more confused each and every day...

Canna, if I may ask about the cream made from the beemerbill recipe for your mom, did you use the amount of cannabis that he recommends in his recipe...my parents (82 & 86) are very leery about all this and not getting "high"....can you elaborate more about what what your mom's response has been for pain?
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

No...yes,this one, as we know, runs hot....that means it boils off more alcohol faster, while the liquid inside climbs to the mid to upper 170's. Not very much higher considering all the extra heat being added. Not near enough to damage the oil UNTIL NEAR THE END. With my night oil I just made, I added back in some alcohol to transfer to the measuring 1/2 cup because it was thicker than I like. And the still will keep boiling the wash after you unplug it for a minute, even with the top off. As you said Fanny, this is when you must watch closely. Near the last of the alcohol boils off rapidly as the temp climbs rapidly. An accurate temp inside the still when it's closed and at full boil near the end...is what we really need, and I don't know how. I opened fast to check once...once will be all. DON'T DO THAT. NASTY !!! don't ask

When it distills water, how hot is the very last of the water that evaporates...stands to reason it's 212 deg F or it would have boiled off previously. But the oil would be damaged before it reached its boiling point (starts to vaporize) around 300 deg F I'm guessing. You get THC at 325 deg F vaping. Is it ruined? Reduced delivery (vaping vs tacking), reduced uptake, reduced bio avail, but what else is lost at vapor temp? Terpines, flav-a-this and that... What if it just gets thicker? Like mine did.....and you just add back a little alcohol? Like I did. I sloppy tacked to test, and can tell you of its power! Ramble...sorry. Problem is, I don't know how hot it got in the final seconds.

:Namaste:
JohnnyCake
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

cajuncelt said:
Good grief this went left of center. Lol.
Canna, you'll only ruin the oil in the water still if it goes past the 80% line. If not, the cannabinoids will only be as hot as the boiling point of the ethanol. The 250° is to keep the THC intact & to decarb it.
You should reread the oil making thread. We've posted all this, alot. Our info came from the experts at Skunk Pharms. It is still the latest/greatest.

The issues I have with the water still is that I can't run it long enough to do anything but reclaim or the oil WILL degrade at that point.
2. There's plastic in the top housing. Not a problem for water, but ethanol will degrade it. The essential oil still doesn't have plastic.
3. The gas vent on the water still may be ok if you're venting good, but you're unable to use the off gasing of the ethanol in it. You can't make tinctures, safely use alcohol, you'll lose the warranty using alcohol in the water still...

The list is getting longer for "against" for me. The home mods are not dangerous unless the screwdriver slips. Plug a hole, tear off plastic, easy wire a variable switch. Takes about 20 mins.
Click to expand...

Agreed buddy.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

cajuncelt said:
Good grief this went left of center. Lol.
Canna, you'll only ruin the oil in the water still if it goes past the 80% line. If not, the cannabinoids will only be as hot as the boiling point of the ethanol. The 250° is to keep the THC intact & to decarb it.
You should reread the oil making thread. We've posted all this, alot. Our info came from the experts at Skunk Pharms. It is still the latest/greatest.

The issues I have with the water still is that I can't run it long enough to do anything but reclaim or the oil WILL degrade at that point.
2. There's plastic in the top housing. Not a problem for water, but ethanol will degrade it. The essential oil still doesn't have plastic.
3. The gas vent on the water still may be ok if you're venting good, but you're unable to use the off gasing of the ethanol in it. You can't make tinctures, safely use alcohol, you'll lose the warranty using alcohol in the water still...

The list is getting longer for "against" for me. The home mods are not dangerous unless the screwdriver slips. Plug a hole, tear off plastic, easy wire a variable switch. Takes about 20 mins.
Click to expand...

I was questioning whether the degrading would happen after I read your statement about losing the flavinoids and such because it runs too hot and too fast.
The water distiller heats too much & too fast to keep terpenes, flavinoids, etc. for cannabis.
Click to expand...
I know that the mention of the unit running too hot has been mentioned in the past as well. I prefer to be sure I understand this and that it isn't going to be a problem. I want the oil to be right as rain.

I did mention that it was probably on the how to make oil thread somewhere. ;-) But, thank you for taking the time to post it here. I'll probably be reading through that whole thread again very soon. I haven't had to resource that for myself because my method had stayed the same. I had no questions to ask.

I would not personally try the modification. That would void a warranty as well. (I did run into a how-to on that as well) I'll wait and get the essential oil distiller at some point. I can do tinctures in the MB machine.

Thanks for information on the housing, not liking that plastic thing either.

So, on with the oil.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

cajuncelt said:
I see the water distiller is not a closed system. There is a vent that releases chlorine gases when it operates. That means it's venting ethanol if you put alcohol in it.
The oil distiller they make is a closed loop system. No leaking ethanol.
I know y'all are are using the water distiller with no problems, but there is a potential one with the internal gas vent. It's not made for alcohol use. The water distiller also has plastic where the oil still doesn't.

I personally would go with the essential oil distiller. You can even make tinctures in it, much less our CCO.
Click to expand...

I did get the essential oil distiller because of all the points you mentioned. I need to test it out but too busy doing my taxes today. OY... painful...Hopefully tomorrow I will test it on water and then oil.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

cajuncelt said:
I see the water distiller is not a closed system. There is a vent that releases chlorine gases when it operates. That means it's venting ethanol if you put alcohol in it.
The oil distiller they make is a closed loop system. No leaking ethanol.
I know y'all are are using the water distiller with no problems, but there is a potential one with the internal gas vent. It's not made for alcohol use. The water distiller also has plastic where the oil still doesn't.

I personally would go with the essential oil distiller. You can even make tinctures in it, much less our CCO.
Click to expand...

There is no plastic in the top of my distiller. There is also no vent. I wanted to distill water in mine too, but 12 hours is a long time to distill a gallon of water as opposed to 5.5 hours in the water distiller.

Making sure not to distill more than 80% of the alcohol keeps from over doing the oil.

I have been waiting for my Proof & Tralle Hydrometer from amuhzon. When I get it, I can check the proof of my last reclamation. If I can find some 80 proof, I'll see what the proof turns out to be. Maybe I'll just try a little wine and see what the proof is. The Proof & Tralle Hydrometer was supposed to be here Tuesday, but the weather affected deliveries. Hope it get's here tomorrow. Amuhzon said today before 8PM. Nope, not today either.

I will finally be getting out tomorrow! Hooray! Got to get to the post office and the store. :circle-of-love:

WJ
:ciao:
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Shawnee said:
Lord have mercy...I am trying to decide what vehicle to purchase to make the oil and I get more confused each and every day...

Canna, if I may ask about the cream made from the beemerbill recipe for your mom, did you use the amount of cannabis that he recommends in his recipe...my parents (82 & 86) are very leery about all this and not getting "high"....can you elaborate more about what what your mom's response has been for pain?
Click to expand...

Hey Shawnee, yes I used his recommended amount. :)

My mom is doing better every day. She can eat a lot more now, there is not a lot of discomfort in her stomach anymore. She was starting to hurt every time she ate anything as the system started moving around.
She loves the energy level and has been doing more up and around everywhere than sitting at the kitchen table looking down. She goes up and down the basement stairs now like a normal person, not one step at a time holding her stomach.

She doesn't have pain at night anymore when she's trying to get to sleep and the "gurgling" has completely stopped. This was so loud sometimes you could hear it across the room and it caused her pain. Personally I think she's had IBS all along and it just got progressively worse over the last year with stress.

Her bathroom time has decreased immensely, and anyone with IBS/IBSD knows what that means. The bathroom becomes a dungeon where torture is done. She is really thankful that is easing up.
All in all, it's working like it did for me. Gradually, but the pain and the nausea associated with it all is truly decreasing.
Her eyes are even brighter looking. LOL

Oh, and no high. None, zero nada on the pain cream. The stuff I'm using now has to be potent, considering the amount of oil and the trim that was used in the original batch. It has not affected me in any way of being high. Sure helps the muscles though....
Mom has had a tub of the first pain cream I made at her house for a couple years. Keeps it in the fridge. She uses it now and then for her knees and on her feet when gout gets to her. Usually she waits until it's really bad.....can't teach her anything.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

wildjim said:
There is no plastic in the top of my distiller. There is also no vent. I wanted to distill water in mine too, but 12 hours is a long time to distill a gallon of water as opposed to 5.5 hours in the water distiller.

Making sure not to distill more than 80% of the alcohol keeps from over doing the oil.

I have been waiting for my Proof & Tralle Hydrometer from amuhzon. When I get it, I can check the proof of my last reclamation. If I can find some 80 proof, I'll see what the proof turns out to be. Maybe I'll just try a little wine and see what the proof is. The Proof & Tralle Hydrometer was supposed to be here Tuesday, but the weather affected deliveries. Hope it get's here tomorrow. Amuhzon said today before 8PM. Nope, not today either.

I will finally be getting out tomorrow! Hooray! Got to get to the post office and the store. :circle-of-love:

WJ
:ciao:
Click to expand...

If you got the Megahome MH-943, you do have a gas vent. It is hard to see & is in the top housing under some of the worm tubing.

Distilling water is awesome, smart & healthy.
But, it's not really all this thing has the potential to do.
If I was looking just to get clean water, I wouldn't bother with all this.
Since the essential oil distiller is a true closed loop still, you..never mind.
This damn thing might be a game changer for me though. That's why I'm trying to get all this straight before I get in to it personally. This thing has the potential to really pull out the flavinoids, cannabinoids, terpenes...the meds. I'm excited to learn more about it. If this goes where I think, in going to start a new thread on one of Lab Rat's favorite topics, refluxing.
Jack Herer & Rick Simpson developed the quick wash/ hot evap method we all use, solely because it's the simplest, cheapest way of obtaining CCO for the average, everyday person.
There been lots of tweeks, but we still all use this basic method.
But!
If we had a safe, engineered, one touch, table top distiller, anyone can take the next step up in processing our oil. I'm not suggesting it, gonna talk about it more, go into any specifics. But, this may change the way I make oil for at least some things.
Sorry for sending this all out there. Lol. I had no clue this kinda equipment was available to us.
 
re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

cajuncelt said:
If you got the Megahome MH-943, you do have a gas vent. It is hard to see & is in the top housing under some of the worm tubing.

Distilling water is awesome, smart & healthy.
But, it's not really all this thing has the potential to do.
If I was looking just to get clean water, I wouldn't bother with all this.
Since the essential oil distiller is a true closed loop still, you..never mind.
This damn thing might be a game changer for me though. That's why I'm trying to get all this straight before I get in to it personally. This thing has the potential to really pull out the flavinoids, cannabinoids, terpenes...the meds. I'm excited to learn more about it. If this goes where I think, in going to start a new thread on one of Lab Rat's favorite topics, refluxing.
Jack Herer & Rick Simpson developed the quick wash/ hot evap method we all use, solely because it's the simplest, cheapest way of obtaining CCO for the average, everyday person.
There been lots of tweeks, but we still all use this basic method.
But!
If we had a safe, engineered, one touch, table top distiller, anyone can take the next step up in processing our oil. I'm not suggesting it, gonna talk about it more, go into any specifics. But, this may change the way I make oil for at least some things.
Sorry for sending this all out there. Lol. I had no clue this kinda equipment was available to us.
Click to expand...

Get that idea going, get it manufactured and I'll buy it! :thumb:
 
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