Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[SweetSue]

Collecting ingredients - egg shell rich worm castings from my friends worm farm, always take an opportunity to get my hands dirty

Very sweet StonerThor. We're all soil nerds here. I haven't found a way to raise worms without killing them (which technically isn't raising them at all, is it?) so I have to rely on purchased. Thank goodness for Worm Power.

I need to try worms again at some point. A little gunshy after decimating three communities though. On a more positive note, the community in my LOS no-till is thriving, and I tossed the extra pot with its worm community into the tote of reserve soil, so now they're living in there too, so maybe I can raise them, just not like everyone else. I need to think about that.

 

[StonerThor]

Very sweet StonerThor. We're all soil nerds here. I haven't found a way to raise worms without killing them (which technically isn't raising them at all, is it?) so I have to rely on purchased. Thank goodness for Worm Power.


I need to try worms again at some point. A little gunshy after decimating three communities though. On a more positive note, the community in my LOS no-till is thriving, and I tossed the extra pot with its worm community into the tote of reserve soil, so now they're living in there too, so maybe I can raise them, just not like everyone else. I need to think about that.

Raising a reproductive community in the soil you use - Love it
I would really like to setup a little worm community for myself sometime, just another rewarding project

 

[StonerThor]

One of the only Neem products I could find was "Bio-Neem - Neem Oil - Organic Pesticide", would this be effective?

Also, regarding Alfalfa, the gardening shop I'm ordering from stocks both Alfalfa/ Lucerne "Meal" as well as "Mulch", which would be the better option?

Thanks in advance

 

[StonerThor]

Never one to shy from asking qustions, heres another Peat is far more available in my area compared to peat moss. I've done a little reading but am still not 100%. How effective is peat in pots compared to peat moss?

 

[bobrown14]

Never one to shy from asking qustions, heres another Peat is far more available in my area compared to peat moss. I've done a little reading but am still not 100%. How effective is peat in pots compared to peat moss?

Look for Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (aka CSPM) - look carefully at the label for this - last time I bought some label just said "Peat Moss" but then looking at the fine print ingredients it will say from Canada and usually Sphagnum Peat Moss from Canada (which is Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss)!

Neem OIL is for IPM (Itegrated pest management - spraying to rid yourself & plants of bugs) - Neem cake meal is what you want to use building your soil. You most likely will have to send for it in the mail (worth every penny) if you're having trouble finding CSPM locally, but you can check with your local nursery if you have one. If you have a local nursery they may also carry ProMix, any ProMix product will be top shelf stuff and recommend that as my #1 choice after of course our own vermicompost/EWC.

 

[Scarfinger68]

Hey there SF - I have a few additions and some advice for you for going organic.

Bone meal and plant tone are not organic! I know a lot of old school organic farmers want to use bone/blood (yuk) meal but all you have to do is drill down on the "why use it and where does it come from"; you wont like the answers to either question. Basically bone meal is neither sustainable nor organic; were the animals the bone meal comes from fed organic foods?? OR were they fed GMO corn with pesticides and given anit-biotics so they can withstand standing in their own feces for extended period of time while they fatten up on the GMO pesticide laced corn?? (kinda scary thinking about it eh?)

I understand your concern. But to me? meh... It says "organic" on the label. So, maybe it only meets the minimum requirement to be organic per government regulations. But! Why settle for the minimum?

I added the bone meal/plant tone, because 1: I had it and 2: I originally wasn't going to get the other amendments. SweetSue put a bug in my ear and I ended up getting all the right stuff.

Now you have put a bug in my ear... I will keep scratching it until... it doesn't itch anymore.

As I evolve I will try and be more organic.

Thanks for your advice

 

[SweetSue]

I attribute the failure of gnats to stay alive in my pots to the neem stirred into my soil.

As do I. One light top dressing of neem on my pots and within days my tent was free of them.

 

[bobrown14]

I understand your concern. But to me? meh... It says "organic" on the label. So, maybe it only meets the minimum requirement to be organic per government regulations. But! Why settle for the minimum?

I added the bone meal/plant tone, because 1: I had it and 2: I originally wasn't going to get the other amendments. SweetSue put a bug in my ear and I ended up getting all the right stuff.

Now you have put a bug in my ear... I will keep scratching it until... it doesn't itch anymore.

As I evolve I will try and be more organic.

Thanks for your advice

It's all good, didn't mean to come off so.... what should I say, enthusiastic!!?? I get a bit passionate about organic farming.

There's sooo much BS going around about how to grow this plant we all love so much. Best to ask yourself when adding in amendments; "why am I adding this bling blang blung bud buster goo?" Your answer should be based on science and not some BS your brothers friend told you without a good scientific reason. Just cause we are growing canna doesn't mean we have to throw out the science, physics and horticulture to get us there.

Slowly stepping back away from my soap box.


Most all gardeners/farmers that are serious about growing organically want to do it sustainably and without salts.

Worms are your best friends in organic gardening as already mentioned! Once I grasped that science, all the stuff we put in our soil revolves around whats good for the worms. It's really that simple.

It's a thought process and with all the fancy bottles and bags of "newts" its very easy to get blasted by the hype and that's all it is, just hype. More likely Big Ag trying to put a hand in your wallet to relieve you of your hard earned money and ruin your crop as a side benefit!

I think I need to take a puff....

Next time anyone wants to purchase some store bought soil/fertilizer check out the ingredients here:


Fertilizer Product Database

 

[TheRoach]

I understand your concern. But to me? meh... It says "organic" on the label. So, maybe it only meets the minimum requirement to be organic per government regulations. But! Why settle for the minimum?

I added the bone meal/plant tone, because 1: I had it and 2: I originally wasn't going to get the other amendments. SweetSue put a bug in my ear and I ended up getting all the right stuff.

Now you have put a bug in my ear... I will keep scratching it until... it doesn't itch anymore.

As I evolve I will try and be more organic.

Thanks for your advice

Bone and blood meal are both organic amendments, even if the animals are fed with GMO (gmos are organic too)

Plastic is organic too. In fact, anything containing carbon is organic.

 

[Scarfinger68]

It's all good, didn't mean to come off so.... what should I say, enthusiastic!!?? I get a bit passionate about organic farming.

There's sooo much BS going around about how to grow this plant we all love so much. Best to ask yourself when adding in amendments; "why am I adding this bling blang blung bud buster goo?" Your answer should be based on science and not some BS your brothers friend told you without a good scientific reason. Just cause we are growing canna doesn't mean we have to throw out the science, physics and horticulture to get us there.

Slowly stepping back away from my soap box.


Most all gardeners/farmers that are serious about growing organically want to do it sustainably and without salts.

Worms are your best friends in organic gardening as already mentioned! Once I grasped that science, all the stuff we put in our soil revolves around whats good for the worms. It's really that simple.

It's a thought process and with all the fancy bottles and bags of "newts" its very easy to get blasted by the hype and that's all it is, just hype. More likely Big Ag trying to put a hand in your wallet to relieve you of your hard earned money and ruin your crop as a side benefit!

I think I need to take a puff....

Next time anyone wants to purchase some store bought soil/fertilizer check out the ingredients here:


Fertilizer Product Database

Good response. Funny and serious. I like it I like the soap box. I just had to check the bags... they do say organic on them. So... I am trying

Bone and blood meal are both organic amendments, even if the animals are fed with GMO (gmos are organic too)

Plastic is organic too. In fact, anything containing carbon is organic.

I see your point. There are several definitions to organic. Some definitions are pretty basic like organ and carbon based. Others state without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides.

I guess it just comes down to... how organic do you want to be. For me? I am probably going to be more of an "organic soup" type to start out with. In the end I will settle on something that works for me.

Great inputs. I appreciate everyone's comments.

 

[CBDkid]

Thank you so much for this thread! I am starting with Fox Farm soil and nutrients to just keep it simple while I learn the basics but I'd like to go organic once I've got a successful grow or two under my belt and it looks like this thread will be very helpful.

 

[Radogast]

Inspired by something Catman12 said on Sweetleaf's thread SweetLeef's Back & Organic

Good Soil and Perpetual growing

In my first grow, I had 2 virtually identical strains from a single breeder. I spent a lot of time looking at the manufacturers schedule for when to feed the bottled organic nutrients. Mixing and trying to decide how much to reduce the manufacturers over feeding recommendations without under feeding, I spent a lot of time and worry measuring the PH for the various mixes before watering and wondering what deficiency/overuse was making my leaves look like they did that week. This was for a simple grow of 4 plants on the same schedule.

Now, in my second grow, I went from 2 strains to 3 strains in a perpetual grow to 9 strains with different growth rates and nutrient needs. Being a perpetual grow I have plants in early veg, late veg, early flower, late flower, clones, seedlings and other stages if I chose to think as granularly as the nutrient manufacturers weekly feeding schedules.

By choosing to build soil and have the soil do the feeding of the plants, the pains and strains of growing, especially growing perpetual, are a whole lot easier. I start in a nutrient poor starting soil and tranplant into a Clackamas Coot style soil perpetual living soil when seedlings are in late veg. If I were transplanting into Fox Farm, High Brix, Growology or other bio-active soil the advantage would be the same. (I hope I am not misunderstanding Doc Bud's High Brix. I believe most of the foliar feeding is not very plant life cycle sensitive, just the cat drench.) If one chooses to add cat drench or bloomtastic magic flowering formula or rocket root builder, as optional supplements to a well built soil, that is great - but having a basic soil that offers full nutrition to plants is geat. Ain't nature smart !

With a bio-active soil food web community taking care of their nutrition, I am free to parent my plants as individual girls of different ages and let the girls feed themselves. That is a MAJOR advantage to a well built soil. It is useful in raising crops of girls, but almost indespensible when raising girls of all ages.

 

[SweetSue]

A well-built soil allows you to drop the seed and watch the plant grow to harvest. The simplicity a well-built soil brings to your life is priceless.

 

[bobrown14]

"If you start out with shitty soil, your plants will grow like crap." CC

If you get your EWC right, there's not much else you will need to worry about.

The EWC is my secret to successful growing. I tried to kill a few plants while on holiday and they made it thru fine with little or no water in 2 weeks AND temps in the low 90s in my grow room. Only had one sorta emergency. Man its hot here, mid-Atlantic east coast. I just got back from Canna-ada where it was nice mid 80s low 60s swim everyday weather.

I know that some of us cannot have a worm bin (mine is like 165 gal), I get that but we can sure try and source some EWC locally. There's a bunch of crazy ass worm wranglers out there just dying to get you what you need. Trust me on that - they are everywhere. Worm wranglers are just as crazy about worms and castings as we are about growing the ladies. We are a match made by mother nature in heaven.

Go get some worm castings ...be the flowers. It's not just for the ladies either, WOW my wife's flowers are over the top.

EWC + ACT = Flower Town - Yeah u right!

i'm sooo happy my ladies are ALIVE!!! Yipeee-tie-oh-tie-eh, gonna have to go and take a puff or 3.

Here's a good one. In Canada I was stressing on coming home with my stash - about a zip total. Going into Canada no problems never been searched.

Coming home .... get to border crossing, brief speak with the officer.... "Oh wait... computer says you gotta pull over."... huh?

OK now I'm freaking out on the inside... gotta remain calm, calm talk it over with my wife, it's going to be ok.
The guard where I had to park the car, says no worry you wont be long.... Thinking to self (I'm like don't you want to check thru our stuff).

Get into the office where we get asked more questions and the whole lobby is full of Middle Eastern folks... wow. They call for a guy named "Kalid Mohamed"... I say; "Isn't that the name of one of the 911 hijackers?? Are we safe here??" All those middle eastern folks are carrying back packs, WOW. I think all the border guards wanted was more white folks in the mix cause they sure were doing racial profiling big time. I'm talking 40 folks from east Asia and maybe 4 white folks. That was a little crazy and me with a bag of weed doing the paranoia I'm going to jail walk. Sheesh. My wife is saying "relax your voice is crackling". Man when we got back in the car and drove off to FREEDOM, we couldn't stop laughing and my o my was I amped up.

I'm happy to be back here kids!

 

[SweetSue]

We're glad to have you back BB. Whew!!!

 

[Radogast]

In Canada I was stressing on coming home with my stash

That's a risk I would never take. Federal crimes and border patrol are an unhealthy combination.

 

[94xjjohn]

SweetSue, due to circumstances beyond my control, my outdoor grow will remain in 5 gal buckets this year. But this gives me ample time to condition this dead O.F. by learning all your secrets.

We had a wind storm 2 days aft my heart event that broke many branches and knocked over many.

We have 22 wild fires going in California right now and most are in or near the triangle (our grow).

 

[ClosedCircuit]

"If you start out with shitty soil, your plants will grow like crap." CC

If you get your EWC right, there's not much else you will need to worry about.

The EWC is my secret to successful growing. I tried to kill a few plants while on holiday and they made it thru fine with little or no water in 2 weeks AND temps in the low 90s in my grow room. Only had one sorta emergency. Man its hot here, mid-Atlantic east coast. I just got back from Canna-ada where it was nice mid 80s low 60s swim everyday weather.

I know that some of us cannot have a worm bin (mine is like 165 gal), I get that but we can sure try and source some EWC locally. There's a bunch of crazy ass worm wranglers out there just dying to get you what you need. Trust me on that - they are everywhere. Worm wranglers are just as crazy about worms and castings as we are about growing the ladies. We are a match made by mother nature in heaven.

Go get some worm castings ...be the flowers. It's not just for the ladies either, WOW my wife's flowers are over the top.

EWC + ACT = Flower Town - Yeah u right!

i'm sooo happy my ladies are ALIVE!!! Yipeee-tie-oh-tie-eh, gonna have to go and take a puff or 3.

Here's a good one. In Canada I was stressing on coming home with my stash - about a zip total. Going into Canada no problems never been searched.

Coming home .... get to border crossing, brief speak with the officer.... "Oh wait... computer says you gotta pull over."... huh?

OK now I'm freaking out on the inside... gotta remain calm, calm talk it over with my wife, it's going to be ok.
The guard where I had to park the car, says no worry you wont be long.... Thinking to self (I'm like don't you want to check thru our stuff).

Get into the office where we get asked more questions and the whole lobby is full of Middle Eastern folks... wow. They call for a guy named "Kalid Mohamed"... I say; "Isn't that the name of one of the 911 hijackers?? Are we safe here??" All those middle eastern folks are carrying back packs, WOW. I think all the border guards wanted was more white folks in the mix cause they sure were doing racial profiling big time. I'm talking 40 folks from east Asia and maybe 4 white folks. That was a little crazy and me with a bag of weed doing the paranoia I'm going to jail walk. Sheesh. My wife is saying "relax your voice is crackling". Man when we got back in the car and drove off to FREEDOM, we couldn't stop laughing and my o my was I amped up.

I'm happy to be back here kids!

Mid atlantic eh? We may almost be neighbors.

 

[94xjjohn]

Now my partners (imaginary Woody and Buck) want to go back to transplanting from the 5 to 65 gal s. pots! Wind is more intense than normal for our area, and the bigger s pots will help with stability. We also have to build some sort of wind block. We'll increase the old greenhouse area and add an equal area for a separate fenced site, but the plants will be 6 feet apart instead of the original plan of 20 feet apart. That should give an easy 50 pound dried harvest. A ok start, but next year, baring death, heart attacks, fires, wind, c., rip offs, deer, Mexican Cartels, oh yeah, and an ever present shortage of money, we may do better. After looking at that list, I'm not so sure. Add in equipment break downs, illnesses, Federal Agents, those 'black' choppers, bears, arguments and disagreements, and just plain screwing up, and it seems a daunting task. No wonder pot is so expensive. And I plan on giving it away. Oh boy! (part of the disagreements I spoke of).
I'll be adding to the soil from the top, no way to mix 2.5 pallets of O.F. with all the other stuff it needs. Mycos and worm casings and worms may primarily be it. Any other ideas given the mass of materials and problem mixing and lack of 'cooking' time?
Peace.

 

[TheRoach]

Hello fellow organic growers. I have a batch of a cubic foot of soil cooking in a large 10 gal plastic box. I mix it thoroughly every 3 days and I plan on cooking for 21 days. Do this composting process give off heat? I've touched the soil and haven't noticed a rise in temps. I added my worm castings from my continuous flow bin along with some soil from my vegetable garden. I hope that makes for a more diverse microherd.
Has any of you guys heard about efficient microorganisms?