Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

Scarfinger68 said:
Wow. A lot about crustaceans. If it makes you feel any better... the "Bumpers Crop" has some in it



I am basing my organic recipe off of this Basic Organic Soil Recipe

Suggesting at minimum you start with


Then it goes on to say these are extra amendments that aren't required but do help greatly





As the extra amendments they mention mainly 3: Alphala meal, Neam Meal and Crab meal.

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I understand that you believe that I should use it. But I am not going to use it. If a person has unlimited resources then by all means buy everything you need.

But I have spent enough and I am putting a stop to the spending.

Honestly... I have grown in "box store" cheap top soil with perlite and dry fertilizers and made it to harvest. I can't imagine how one ingredient is going to make or break me. This will probably be the best soil I have ever used even without the crustacean meal.

Also I have plenty of Fox farms fertilizers to use up if I have any deficiencies.

Just call me your problem child Sue :)

:peacetwo: out
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Nothing problematic about you, love. I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I made the investments I did early from funds we really didn't have because I had a strong sense that my husband wasn't going to last much longer and I wanted him to have something righteous to smoke before he died. It was a matter of extreme priority for me, but there were other things I considered critical that got put on hold for that expenditure. Amazingly everything survived and the soil performed wonderfully.

I applaud your steps in the right direction. Your soil thanks you, your plants will reward your attempts with delicious buds. One step at a time.

That neem meal obliterated my fungus gnat population in one applied top dress. Just sayin'. I wasn't really expecting that to happen. I will definitely make neem an essential part of my garden from now on. It was one of the last additives I purchased, because money was so tight.

I just kept picking things up every month until I had everything on hand.

That reminds me that I wanted to add additional neem meal to the tote of LOS in the kitchen. The basic recipe calls for 1 cup per cubic foot, but it's been determined that twice that (2 cups/cubic ft) is a better ratio. I keep forgetting to do that.
 
Hi guys, do you think shrimp shell meal is a good substitution for the crustacean meal? That is the closest I can get around here, and I don´t want to buy it online.
 
TheRoach said:
Hi guys, do you think shrimp shell meal is a good substitution for the crustacean meal? That is the closest I can get around here, and I don´t want to buy it online.
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I can't think of any reason why not Roach. Crustacean meal has shrimp shell in it, I believe. They are crustaceans, after all and I would figure better that than none, eh?
 
SweetSue said:
Nothing problematic about you, love. I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I made the investments I did early from funds we really didn't have because I had a strong sense that my husband wasn't going to last much longer and I wanted him to have something righteous to smoke before he died. It was a matter of extreme priority for me, but there were other things I considered critical that got put on hold for that expenditure. Amazingly everything survived and the soil performed wonderfully.

I applaud your steps in the right direction. Your soil thanks you, your plants will reward your attempts with delicious buds. One step at a time.

That neem meal obliterated my fungus gnat population in one applied top dress. Just sayin'. I wasn't really expecting that to happen. I will definitely make neem an essential part of my garden from now on. It was one of the last additives I purchased, because money was so tight.

I just kept picking things up every month until I had everything on hand.

That reminds me that I wanted to add additional neem meal to the tote of LOS in the kitchen. The basic recipe calls for 1 cup per cubic foot, but it's been determined that twice that (2 cups/cubic ft) is a better ratio. I keep forgetting to do that.
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First thing... My condolences on your husband passing. I recently took care of a family member at home that passed away in my care. I said recently but it has been like 6 years since their passing. Not that I know exactly your situation. But I too started growing for others. Not for myself.

Thanks for your understanding. I can be hard headed at times. I would like you to know that I will add other amendments to me soil in the future as I am able. Considering this soil can be reused, I should have plenty of opportunity to eventually get all the goodies in there.

Thanks for your help.
 
B A R said:
Did I miss something?
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No BAR. He's still breathing, though barely now. Scarfinger is new to the story and I just read it in future terms. :Love:
 
SweetSue said:
Crab shell is high in chitin, which promotes the growth of chitin eating bacteria. The exoskeletons of fungus and harmful varieties of nematodes eggs are high in chitin. When added to the soil, crab shell helps to create a hostile environment for the fungus and root destroying nematodes by feeding the biological life that eats chitin and chitin based organisms.

The chitin in the crabshell stimulates soil organisms to secrete enzymes called chitinases. These enzymes degrade chitin, which is a component of flea egg shells. The presence of chitin in the fertilizer makes it a natural biopesticide that is non-toxic to birds, animals, fish, and plants.
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This got me to thinking, Sue. I have a very light case of PM hanging around from before I got into the good mix. I could use neem oil as a fungicide and might if things ramp up. However, reading this post from you made me think, what if I brewed a compost tea for foiler with neem cake and crustacean meal, instead of buying some probably not actually organic neem oil from the store.?

Any thoughts on how much i should use? I would probably mix up 2-3 gallons to foiler all of my plants.
 
B A R said:
Did I miss something?
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Scarfinger68 said:
First thing... My condolences on your husband passing. I recently took care of a family member at home that passed away in my care. I said recently but it has been like 6 years since their passing. Not that I know exactly your situation. But I too started growing for others. Not for myself.

Thanks for your understanding. I can be hard headed at times. I would like you to know that I will add other amendments to me soil in the future as I am able. Considering this soil can be reused, I should have plenty of opportunity to eventually get all the goodies in there.

Thanks for your help.
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SweetSue said:
No BAR. He's still breathing, though barely now. Scarfinger is new to the story and I just read it in future terms. :Love:
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:oops: I am sorry. I miss understood. :Love:
 
TheRoach said:
Hi SweetSue!
This is an impressive thread, I will take the time to calmly read through it and ruminate the info here. I know you are an organics enthusiast so I thought you might like to check this out, and if you already knew the method I hope it still helps somebody else!
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Awesome information. Quick question - do you then use your inoculated soil and mix it in with the rest of your soil ingredients?
 
StonerThor said:
Awesome information. Quick question - do you then use your inoculated soil and mix it in with the rest of your soil ingredients?
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Some people do that. But the best results can be observed when the inoculant can quickly colonize a root system. That said, it would be best if you either drop a little powder into the seed whole (not advisable because it may actually kill your seedlings inadvertently), or wait till you seedlings are established (in a separate container) and throw some powder into the whole for the plant. Option B allows the inoculant to colonize an already established root system. Once you harvest the plant, you can keep the fungal colony alive with a cover crop. They need a living rhizosphere to work along side of in order to survive.
 
Well after complaining about getting all the amendments... I finally got enough stuff for a good basic start. I tried to keep track of expenses, approximately. I started out thinking I wouldn't be getting all the amendments so some of my proportions are off just a little.

My Soil (7.5 gallons = 1 cu. Ft.)

2.5 gallons peat moss [2.2 cu. ft. bail $12]
2.5 gallons worm compost [2 cu. ft. $15]
2.5 gallons perlite [8.8 Liters: $12]
1.0 gallon Fox Farms Ocean Forrest [$30 @1.2 cu. ft.]
1.0 gallon "Bumper Crop" Compost [$12 @1 cu. ft.]
1 cup "Garden Lime" (per cubic foot) [6.75 lbs. $18]

Nutritional amendments (2 to 3 cups total per cu. ft.) *I went over 3 cups. Also probably put to much kelp meal in.
1.5 cups Kelp Meal [6 lbs. $18]
1 cup Plant Tone [4 lbs. $10]
0.5 cup Bone Meal [4 lbs. $8]
0.5 cup Crab Meal [4 lbs. $15]

[{Neem meal (top dress?)}] [4 lbs. $15] *I have not added this yet. I wasn't sure if I should mix it in or top dress with it.

Mineral amendment
4 cups Glacial Rock Dust (per cubic foot) [7 lbs. $10]

It will be "cooking" about 4 weeks before I use it. I plan on re-using the soil. So, in the long run it should be cheaper, and better soil. Time will tell. The journey continues...

:peace:
 
Well done Scarfinger. Add the neem to your soil at a rate of 1cup per cubic foot of soil. A light top dress will keep the gnats at bay.
 
Radogast said:
re: worm compost [2 cu. ft. $15]

At that price, I believe what you have is worm FOOD - compost for worms to eat.
Most soil recipes want worm POOP - earthworm castings -

Can you get a photo of the label?


I attribute the failure of gnats to stay alive in my pots to the neem stirred into my soil.
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That's my mistake Rad. It is actually earthworm castings. I bought them from a worm farmer. Nice old man. Gave me a tour of his set up and of course he liked to talk as most old farmer types do :)

Me being a noob to organic terminology called it compost. He just puts the castings in the old peat moss bags. He doesn't really advertise and mainly just grows worms as a hobby and for friends. Looks like I found a gem :)

He originally wanted 9$ a cu. f.t and then lowered his price to $7.50 a cu. ft. after talking. I gave him $20 for 2 cu. ft. because I knew it was worth it.

My Soil (7.5 gallons = 1 cu. Ft.)

2.5 gallons peat moss [2.2 cu. ft. bail $12]
2.5 gallons earthworm castings [2 cu. ft. $15]
2.5 gallons perlite [8.8 Liters: $12]
1.0 gallon Fox Farms Ocean Forrest [$30 @1.2 cu. ft.]
1.0 gallon “Bumper Crop” Compost [$12 @1 cu. ft.]
1 cup “Garden Lime” (per cubic foot) [6.75 lbs. $18]

Nutritional amendments (2 to 3 cups total per cu. ft.) *I went over 3 cups. Also probably put to much kelp meal in.
1.5 cups Kelp Meal [6 lbs. $18]
1 cup Plant Tone [4 lbs. $10]
0.5 cup Bone Meal [4 lbs. $8]
0.5 cup Crab Meal [4 lbs. $15]

[{Neem meal (top dress?)}] [4 lbs. $15] *I have not added this yet. I wasn't sure if I should mix it in or top dress with it.

Mineral amendment
4 cups Glacial Rock Dust (per cubic foot) [7 lbs. $10]

It will be "cooking" about 4 weeks before I use it. I plan on re-using the soil. So, in the long run it should be cheaper, and better soil. Time will tell. The journey continues...
Click to expand...
 
Scarfinger68 said:
Well after complaining about getting all the amendments... I finally got enough stuff for a good basic start. I tried to keep track of expenses, approximately. I started out thinking I wouldn't be getting all the amendments so some of my proportions are off just a little.

My Soil (7.5 gallons = 1 cu. Ft.)

2.5 gallons peat moss [2.2 cu. ft. bail $12]
2.5 gallons worm compost [2 cu. ft. $15]
2.5 gallons perlite [8.8 Liters: $12]
1.0 gallon Fox Farms Ocean Forrest [$30 @1.2 cu. ft.]
1.0 gallon “Bumper Crop” Compost [$12 @1 cu. ft.]
1 cup “Garden Lime” (per cubic foot) [6.75 lbs. $18]

Nutritional amendments (2 to 3 cups total per cu. ft.) *I went over 3 cups. Also probably put to much kelp meal in.
1.5 cups Kelp Meal [6 lbs. $18]
1 cup Plant Tone [4 lbs. $10]
0.5 cup Bone Meal [4 lbs. $8]
0.5 cup Crab Meal [4 lbs. $15]

[{Neem meal (top dress?)}] [4 lbs. $15] *I have not added this yet. I wasn't sure if I should mix it in or top dress with it.

Mineral amendment
4 cups Glacial Rock Dust (per cubic foot) [7 lbs. $10]

It will be "cooking" about 4 weeks before I use it. I plan on re-using the soil. So, in the long run it should be cheaper, and better soil. Time will tell. The journey continues...

:peace:
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Hey there SF - I have a few additions and some advice for you for going organic.

Bone meal and plant tone are not organic! I know a lot of old school organic farmers want to use bone/blood (yuk) meal but all you have to do is drill down on the "why use it and where does it come from"; you wont like the answers to either question. Basically bone meal is neither sustainable nor organic; were the animals the bone meal comes from fed organic foods?? OR were they fed GMO corn with pesticides and given anit-biotics so they can withstand standing in their own feces for extended period of time while they fatten up on the GMO pesticide laced corn?? (kinda scary thinking about it eh?)

That and those 2 items are NOT needed in this mix.

Neem meal, Crab meal, kelp meal, stone dust with quality EWC are the amendments to add - garden lime is over kill as well, it takes a very long time to break down. What garden lime does is buffer PH fluctuations (hold off on running to get a PH meter - it's not needed). Better amendment for PH buffering is limestone dust (not the same as garden lime) or gypsum. I used Dolomite Lime 4 runs ago and I'm sure its still there doing its thing.

I run no-til which means re-using the same soil and container over again in a perpetual garden without disturbance.

One more item you could add to your arsenal of amendments is Malted Barley seed - that can be ground up and added into your soil for beneficial enzymes the plant will use for growth and flowering. You will also be able to make a tea and top drench with the malted barley tea later on as your plants start to grow.

Start plants as seedlings/clones, develop good roots, up pot into final container add mycos (mycorrhizae) to roots at transplant. Going straight into largest container/finish container will give you best yield.

The REAL key to happy healthy plants is EWC/Vermicompost. Figure that out and your gardens will be worry free!
 
StonerThor said:
Awesome information. Quick question - do you then use your inoculated soil and mix it in with the rest of your soil ingredients?
Click to expand...

You can add a layer in the bottom of the hole where you put your transplant, and then around the root ball so the reproductive spores get in touch with the roots soon. If you are using a seed, add some inoculant in the soil you will plant, and then some more in the hole with the seed. Early colonization of the root system is preferred, as ClosedCircuit mentioned. Today I will update that inoculum tutorial with pictures.
 
Scarfinger68 said:
That's my mistake Rad. It is actually earthworm castings. I bought them from a worm farmer. Nice old man. Gave me a tour of his set up and of course he liked to talk as most old farmer types do :)

Me being a noob to organic terminology called it compost. He just puts the castings in the old peat moss bags. He doesn't really advertise and mainly just grows worms as a hobby and for friends. Looks like I found a gem :)

He originally wanted 9$ a cu. f.t and then lowered his price to $7.50 a cu. ft. after talking. I gave him $20 for 2 cu. ft. because I knew it was worth it.
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Now THAT is a great find. Earthworms are a gardener's best friend :)
 
Collecting ingredients - egg shell rich worm castings from my friends worm farm, always take an opportunity to get my hands dirty :)

20150712_145659.jpg
 
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