Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

ClosedCircuit said:
That's what they said about the rainforest. Peat bogs serve more than just our needs for a soil aerator.
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Point taken. It's the long-term perspective we should be adopting. Generations ahead.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
That's what they said about the rainforest. Peat bogs serve more than just our needs for a soil aerator.
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Wait till the Russians get into Peat harvesting... think about that for a sec.

Use the peat moss, there's a lot more to worry about near term than 10,000 years worth of peat moss. Start to worry about Peat when corporate Amrika starts to use it for "bio" fuel for trains/planes/automobiles. Peat bogs are the future oil reservoirs.

The downside of peat harvest is release of harmful green house gasses (CO2). HOWEVER peat also releases methane gas as a natural process (bogs receive sun - bio-mass starts to de-compose generating CO2 and Methane gas) so removing the methane gas source (peat moss) there's some benefit. There are studies about this done in Canada. Canadians generally are into the environment so they would not be harvesting peat moss if it produced a net negative environmental impact.

Here's what to worry about:

Arctic tundra = frozen peat = frozen methane gas

Arctic tundra melts - releases just a fraction of the frozen methane = un-inhabitable planet.

I would bet feeding bovine animals and harvesting them for food has a greater negative environmental impact worldwide that harvesting peat moss (both short and long term harvest) in Canada.

This is good conversation. Asking the right questions too! Very important for people to be thinking about these issues.
 
Back to peat moss...

The big box stores don't sell any good stuff. Its all Miracle Grow type with slow released fertilizer. I did see some Organic Jiffy 12 qt. seed starting mix as maybe a last resort. At least is doesn't say anything about fertilizer in it.

A local garden center states they carry "Michigan Peat Moss" at least on their website. I will have to give them a call.

The only hard thing about trying to go organic... is finding everything. Unless you can afford to have it shipped to you, $16 dollars + $45 dollars shipping... say what!!

The search continues.
 
I was lucky to live near a Lowe's. They sell a regular peat moss without the MG additives. I hear you about access concerns. I think every one of us has run up against it at one time or another. Sometimes you just need to think outside the box. Know anyone in landscaping?
 
SweetSue said:
I was lucky to live near a Lowe's. They sell a regular peat moss without the MG additives. I hear you about access concerns. I think every one of us has run up against it at one time or another. Sometimes you just need to think outside the box. Know anyone in landscaping?
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sent you a PM
 
Hi SweetSue!
This is an impressive thread, I will take the time to calmly read through it and ruminate the info here. I know you are an organics enthusiast so I thought you might like to check this out, and if you already knew the method I hope it still helps somebody else!
 
That called for rep points Roach. Thanks. :thumb:
 
TheRoach said:
Thank you for the reps SweetSue, you have a massive reps power! haha
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So I've been told Roach. They're like love. The more you give away the more you get back. They're free. Pat alot of people on the back, why not? :Love:
 
Just jumping in here Sweetsue, if it's OK w/u. I'll start at the start and catch up. Wish I'd done it sooner. Moving 25 assorted young ladies outside and into 65 gal smart pots, but most of my 47 years of growing was inside w/salt. I know the s word is dirty here and I promise to not use it again (the word and products). Be back soon. Send Cajun a prayer now, if you will. He's struggling. Thanks.:Namaste:

:circle-of-love:
 
94xjjohn said:
Just jumping in here Sweetsue, if it's OK w/u. I'll start at the start and catch up. Wish I'd done it sooner. Moving 25 assorted young ladies outside and into 65 gal smart pots, but most of my 47 years of growing was inside w/salt. I know the s word is dirty here and I promise to not use it again (the word and products). Be back soon. Send Cajun a prayer now, if you will. He's struggling. Thanks.:Namaste:

:circle-of-love:
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Mornin' John. I read about those pots on Cajun's journal and wondered about the sanity of someone who starts 25 plants in 65 gallon pots. Feel free to speak of whatever here, we're not really a soil mafia. Haha! You must have a monster spread to fit the girls in John. Are you planning to document this endeavor with a journal? I, for one, wouldn't be opposed to following such massive root space filling up and supporting huge bushes outdoors, regardless of how you choose to feed your plants.

Here we just feed the soil and let the biota do the hard work for us. Evolutionary advantage and all that. :blushsmile:
 
Well, I've wondered about my sanity for awhile now! The girls were started in 2" and 4" cubes, then all to 4" sq. pots, then 2 gal. pots, and now they're in 5 gal buckets. In a greenhouse w/ light augmentation until today when they go outside and then into the 65 gal smart pots. These size "pots" (bags?) allow, I'm told, the root ball to expand to their full 18" x 30" potential. Folks in the area grow 14 foot giants that produce 10 pounds of bud. I don't know how yet, it's a closely held secret, but I hope they'll teach me. Heavily armed with locked gates and check points. Maybe a grow thread if they trust me and pre approve any pics. Maybe second year. We'll see. I have cancer, but I'm VERY positive with you guys and my beloved cannabinoids to bolster me. Bolster. What a weird word. Ramblin'. Just tacked my new night-night oil. GSCookies. Night-night.:Love:

:circle-of-love:

ps. 10 acres of Mendocino Forest (the lovely Emerald Triangle say the hotel brochures). It's so legal here, the fire department delivers irrigation water for the pot crops so you don't further deplete the streams and rivers in this drought. Here comes legal weed very soon, boys and girls !!!:yahoo:

pps. A MOST HAPPY SUMMER SOLSTICE EVERYBODY


:ciao:
 
Oh yeah, I forgot - the solstice! Hahaha! Isn't this one of those days we hippy dippy types are supposed to congregate with drum circles and ceremony? :rofl: One of these days when sanity rules the courts again we should do one just for grins. Bring a selection from harvests from the previous year and some righteous cannabis pot luck and share all around.

Now tell me, didn't that sound like fun?

See it.

Believe it.

Expect it.

Make it so.​
 
:welcome:Drum circle starts at about 1:00 pm at Monti Rio park 3 miles down the road from where I sit this glorious morning! :thumb: Bring food and party favors and a drum. :high-five: See you there!:Love:

:circle-of-love:

And Happy Fathers Day to all you guy parents!:bravo:
 
Radogast said:
My Solstice photos from this year
Radogast's Non-420 Garden Creation Thread Post #550
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If you click on the post number (above right of post) before copying the URL it should give you a link direct to that post.
Radogast's Non-420 Garden Creation Thread

I didn't do any non-420 shots today but my 420 ones are here....Kushtie - Multiple Strains - 600W HPS & NFT

Beware of doing too much scrolling there though my LOS friends......there might be pics of hydroponic growing along with the soil ones that have been getting bottled nutes.

Wasn't too sunny by the time I found my site unfortunately. On my first attempt I spent about half an hour battling through the trees to come back out somewhere I wasn't expecting. I was pretty well disorientated and faced with a decision; left or right. One way would hopefully take me to a recognisable path home and the other way could take hours to find somewhere I could recognise and navigate from. Then I remembered I wasn't just taking water to the site I had a couple of seedlings that needed planted so the decision was made to go back into the trees and worry about getting home later lol :)
 
Scarfinger68 said:
Back to peat moss...

The big box stores don't sell any good stuff. Its all Miracle Grow type with slow released fertilizer. I did see some Organic Jiffy 12 qt. seed starting mix as maybe a last resort. At least is doesn't say anything about fertilizer in it.

A local garden center states they carry "Michigan Peat Moss" at least on their website. I will have to give them a call.

The only hard thing about trying to go organic... is finding everything. Unless you can afford to have it shipped to you, $16 dollars + $45 dollars shipping... say what!!

The search continues.
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Do you have a hydro store around you? They will often have bags of peat moss.
 
ClosedCircuit said:
Do you have a hydro store around you? They will often have bags of peat moss.
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I found some at a garden center. $12 + tax for a 2.2 cu.ft. bag. Man that stuff is so nice and fluffy. I asked for soil amendments like kelp, azomite or vulcanic rock dust and crustacean meal. Nope to all. But they did have some "bumper crop" organic soil builder, 2 cu ft bag for $12. I picked up a bag. I figure I can use it as a compost substitute. Or just add a little to the mix. Can't hurt.

Ordered some Kelp meal and Volcanic rock dust. I am going to try it without crustacean meal for the time being.

1/3 peat moss
1/3 worm castings and a little bit of "Bumper Crop"
1/3 perlite

1 cup garden lime
1 cup plant tone

I mixed the above with 1 gallon of water with 1 tsp. of black strap molasses.

To be added in a few days:
Kelp meal
Volcanic rock dust
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In my "jimmy rigged" recipe the Garden Lime is taking place of the crustacean meal and oyster shell powder... well kind of, as far as I can figure.
 
Scarfinger68 said:
I found some at a garden center. $12 + tax for a 2.2 cu.ft. bag. Man that stuff is so nice and fluffy. I asked for soil amendments like kelp, azomite or vulcanic rock dust and crustacean meal. Nope to all. But they did have some "bumper crop" organic soil builder, 2 cu ft bag for $12. I picked up a bag. I figure I can use it as a compost substitute. Or just add a little to the mix. Can't hurt.

Ordered some Kelp meal and Volcanic rock dust. I am going to try it without crustacean meal for the time being.

1/3 peat moss
1/3 worm castings and a little bit of "Bumper Crop"
1/3 perlite

1 cup garden lime
1 cup plant tone

I mixed the above with 1 gallon of water with 1 tsp. of black strap molasses.

To be added in a few days:
Kelp meal
Volcanic rock dust
--------------------------------

In my "jimmy rigged" recipe the Garden Lime is taking place of the crustacean meal and oyster shell powder... well kind of, as far as I can figure.
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I'd rethink leaving the crustacean meal out of the mix. It's quite a valuable addition and one of the reasons this recipe we use works so well. Just a little info.

Crustacean Meal - NPK along with Chitin and Calcium

From Master Garden Products, a quick overview.

Crab shell is not a fungicide or nematocide. It's a great fertilizer with calcium and some extra benefits not found in other fertilizer products.

Crab shell is high in chitin, which promotes the growth of chitin eating bacteria. The exoskeletons of fungus and harmful varieties of nematodes eggs are high in chitin. When added to the soil, crab shell helps to create a hostile environment for the fungus and root destroying nematodes by feeding the biological life that eats chitin and chitin based organisms.

The chitin in the crabshell stimulates soil organisms to secrete enzymes called chitinases. These enzymes degrade chitin, which is a component of flea egg shells. The presence of chitin in the fertilizer makes it a natural biopesticide that is non-toxic to birds, animals, fish, and plants.


And from Coast Of Maine. We have a couple gardeners here using this excellent compost as part of their base recipe. Rad comes to mind first. I believe they are all blissfully happy with the addition of crustacean meal in their pots.

Lobster Compost – Chitin Promotes Beneficial Biology
I get curious about the strangest things sometimes. Last summer, during a contemplative moment lying on my lawn, I rolled onto my stomach and parted the grass to sneak a peek at the soil surface. What I saw was a literal junkyard of refuse including seeds, grass clippings, shredded leaf parts, worm castings and, most interestingly, lots of insect exoskeleton pieces. I thought to myself, “All those bits of chitin-rich exoskeleton must be a valuable commodity to the Soil Food Web.”

For years, I’ve told gardeners that chitin serves as a rich food source for soil microbes, which, in turn, provide the soil ecosystem and plants with essential building blocks for healthy growth. The soil depends on a food pyramid similar to our own with carbohydrates, protein, fats and fiber. In fact, the most common food sources in nature are cellulose, starch and chitin.

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The chitin molecule is essentially a series of modified sugar molecules hitched together. As a food source, it packs a lot caloric energy. That’s why lobster, crab and shrimp shells compost really well. Crustacean shells are composed of a matrix of this chitin and calcium and magnesium bearing molecules. The claws have much higher concentrations of the hard stuff whereas flexible body parts are higher in softer chitin.

We know chitin plays a critical nutritional role to the Soil Food Web and that a healthy soil system recycles the bodies of chitin-rich insects. Clearly, poisoning all the insect life in your lawn and garden disrupts Nature’s beautiful design! A lawn or garden with no insects is missing a key food source.

I believe a healthy natural Soil Food Web keeps predators, prey, parasites and diseases in balance. My 40 year old natural lawn, with all those expired insect bodies, does not get grub damage, insect infestations or fungus diseases. Anecdotally, I have used lobster compost on several grub infested lawns and found it deters grubs. A little research unearthed the hypothesis that adding chitin to the soil surface promotes the proliferation of chitin eating bacteria….. There are specific bacteria for eating everything! And, behold, grubs’ jaws are made of chitin! It is possible that the bacteria leach into the soil and irritate the grubs so they leave or stop eating. I don’t know the mechanism exactly, but have seen it work.

In conclusion, shellfish compost is a great choice when you want to boost the vigor of the Soil Food Web in your lawn or garden. The calcium and magnesium are critical plant nutrients and we are still learning about all the miraculous benefits of chitin.

Pete Bottomley, AOLCP
Coast of Maine Organic Products


Worth considering. Yes, you could leave it out and get a decent harvest, or you could include it and ramp up the effectiveness of your soil mix.
 
Wow. A lot about crustaceans. If it makes you feel any better... the "Bumpers Crop" has some in it

Worm Castings: Worm castings are full of biologically activated minerals and rich source of beneficial soil biology. Some describe it as "nature's perfect plant food" and an exceptional form of humus.
Lobster & Crab Shells: Lobster and crab shells are rich in calcium and chitin to help make plants strong and disease resistant.Kelp Meal: Kelp meal stimulates soil bacteria helping to increase soil fertility.
Dehydrated Poultry Manure: Dehydrated poultry manure is great for growing green and vigorous plants.
Peat Humus: Peat humus (the humified remains of sphagnum peat) is a highly organic material that loosens
clay soil and gives body to sandy soil.
Sphagnum Peat Moss: sSphagnum peat moss provides a stable environment for root growth and helps hold water and maintain pore space.
Aged Bark: Aged Bark provides organic matter in the form of well-aged northern softwood and bark adding structure and holding moisture.
Composted Cow Manure: Composted cow manure brings active biology and is rich in organic matter plant roots need.
Dolomitic Lime:Dolomitic Lime added to adjust pH.

CONTAINS ECTO & ENDOMYCORRHIZAE!
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I am basing my organic recipe off of this Basic Organic Soil Recipe

Suggesting at minimum you start with
Now for the soil mix. First you want to make a base mix comprised of peat moss, humus (compost and/or ewc), your aeration amendment of choice, and lime. The soil mix should be about 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 humus, and 1/3 aeration amendment (don't stress out if you add a little too much of one thing or your ratios aren't exact, it will be okay). If you want to use a 50/25/25 ratio of peat moss/perlite/humus, that's fine too. You can use a 5 gallon bucket (or a 1 gallon bucket) to measure. Remember when making your soil that 1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons. You can use just the plain base soil for starting your seeds and clones.

Note: we are using a 5 gallon bucket to measure, so 1 part=1 full 5 gallon bucket, 1/2 part=1/2 of a 5 gallon bucket, or 2.5 gallons

To make 1 cubic foot (7.5 gallons) of base soil:

1/2 part peat moss
1/2 part humus (compost and/or ewc- can do all compost or all ewc or some mixture of the two)
1/2 part aeration amendment
1 cup lime (per cubic foot)

Nutritional amendments: you want to add about 2-3 cups total of all your nutritional amendments per cubic foot (7.5 gallons) of soil. Note that this means 2-3 cups total, a combination of all your nutritional amendments, not 2-3 cups of each amendment.
1 cup kelp meal
1.5 cups dry organic fertilizer

Mineral amendment: now add 4 cups of your rock dust per cubic foot (7.5 gallons) of soil

Mix all the above ingredients well. Now moisten the soil by adding water and mixing until the soil is about as damp as a well-wrung out sponge. Now let the soil sit for 3-4 weeks to allow the microbes to begin to break down the amendments and convert the nutrients into a form that the plant can use. This process of nutrient cycling is also referred to as "cooking". Neither heat nor the sun are required, the soil can "cook" inside just fine. You can go ahead and fill up the pots you plan to use and let the soil "cook" in the pots. You can moisten the soil with an ACT if desired to help jump-start the nutrient cycling process.
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Then it goes on to say these are extra amendments that aren't required but do help greatly

The next part of the thread will talk about "extra" amendments that you can add, now or for future grows. These amendments are very beneficial and will absolutely improve your soil, but they aren't necessary and you don't have to have them to get started. Please note that all pictures are shown only as a guide, you do not have to buy these specific brands. Get what is available in your area.
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There are many additional amendments that can be of benefit in an organic soil. Here I will talk about several and discuss what benefits they add to the soil. The above soil mix with dry organic fertilizer and kelp meal will provide for all your plants nutritional needs, you do not have to add any of these amendments. You can add 1 of these "extra" amendments to your soil, or all of them, or none at all. Or you can start with just tomato tone and kelp meal, then add "extra" amendments to your soil in the future as your understanding of organic gardening improves (or as your budget will allow).
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As the extra amendments they mention mainly 3: Alphala meal, Neam Meal and Crab meal.

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I understand that you believe that I should use it. But I am not going to use it. If a person has unlimited resources then by all means buy everything you need.

But I have spent enough and I am putting a stop to the spending.

Honestly... I have grown in "box store" cheap top soil with perlite and dry fertilizers and made it to harvest. I can't imagine how one ingredient is going to make or break me. This will probably be the best soil I have ever used even without the crustacean meal.

Also I have plenty of Fox farms fertilizers to use up if I have any deficiencies.

Just call me your problem child Sue :)

:peacetwo: out
 
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