Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[SweetSue]

Smokey, the best I've been able to find is that the distilling process always leaves residual oils in the waste water, so anything contained in those oils would be benefitting your garden. With mint that's heaps of great stuff for plant health and immunity.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Seems like alot on experts of this thread. Anyone mind looking over this recipe for a bloom soil that I built (on paper) last night?

The Bloom soil (24.8gallons total) The ratio should be close to 4-7-3 if my calculations are right.

castings (1-0-0) 11cups (0.69gal)
fish meal (4-0-0) 0.75cups
rock phos (0-3-0) 2cups
kelp (1-0-10) 0.4cups
bone meal (3-15-0) 0.25cups
seaweed (1-1-16) 0.5cups
P guano (.5-12-.2) 1.5cups
lime 0.5cups
inoculant mix 45cc
perlite 80cups (5gal)
recycled soil 300cups (18.75gal) (it's an pile of soil in the yard that I've been adding to for several years. coco/perlite mostly, with the occasional watermelon rind or pile of corn husks that has been tossed in now and then)



EDIT: my apologies if you have already seen this
I posted a bunch of spreadsheets and pie charts on my own thread (I got bored and made a soil recipe), but they are really small pictures. If you know how to use the zoom function on your browser, a run over and opinion from anyone would be much appreciated! Catching up on the rest of this thread right now

I would definitely put more castings in there. For 24 gallons of soil I would mix around 6-8 gallons personally. You can always do more, but I'm not sure what's in your recycled garden soil. Odds are there are already castings in it. If you ever feel like you dont have enough you can always top dress your plants later on.

I didn't see much in the mineral department going on in your list. I would strongly consider purchasing some glacial rock dust at least, and also some gypsum flour or oyster shell flour, and crab meal. Calcium is extremely important to a well aerated soil and is one of the most important minerals with regards to cell reproduction. I would mix about a cup per 10 gallons of each.

Dont forget to test your soil if at all possible. Most soil tests are not too expensive. A professional lab can make recommendations for you about you need to add to balance your soil.

 

[iwltfum]

I would definitely put more castings in there. For 24 gallons of soil I would mix around 6-8 gallons personally. You can always do more, but I'm not sure what's in your recycled garden soil. Odds are there are already castings in it. If you ever feel like you dont have enough you can always top dress your plants later on.

I didn't see much in the mineral department going on in your list. I would strongly consider purchasing some glacial rock dust at least, and also some gypsum flour or oyster shell flour, and crab meal. Calcium is extremely important to a well aerated soil and is one of the most important minerals with regards to cell reproduction. I would mix about a cup per 10 gallons of each.

Dont forget to test your soil if at all possible. Most soil tests are not too expensive. A professional lab can male recommendations to you about you need to add to balance your soil.

Thanks for your input closedcircuit! This what what I had on hand, but I realized last night, as you mentioned, I completely forgot about micro nutrients!

So, just to make sure I understand exactly what you meant:

either glacial rock dust and crab meal
or
oyster shells and crab meal?
1cup/10galls of each?

I believe many of the ingredients that I used have minerals in them too. The bag of bone meal says it has 18%Ca. That's the only ingredient that I used that has a nutrient break down (on the bag) more than just NPK. But doesn't rock phos contain trace minerals. And castings, fish meal, and seaweed/kelp?

All the soil was flushed heavily prior to being put out in the yard so it's pretty much empty other than that occasional watermelon rind and pile of corn husks

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Thanks for your input closedcircuit! This what what I had on hand, but I realized last night, as you mentioned, I completely forgot about micro nutrients!

So, just to make sure I understand exactly what you meant:

either glacial rock dust and crab meal
or
oyster shells and crab meal?
1cup/10galls of each?

I believe many of the ingredients that I used have minerals in them too. The bag of bone meal says it has 18%Ca. That's the only ingredient that I used that has a nutrient break down (on the bag) more than just NPK. But doesn't rock phos contain trace minerals. And castings, fish meal, and seaweed/kelp?

All the soil was flushed heavily prior to being put out in the yard so it's pretty much empty other than that occasional watermelon rind and pile of corn husks

If you can get all of those amendments and drop the lime you are planning on using.

Gypsum flour tends to have some lime, but more importantly and balanced mix of mag and calcium. If you go that route you can probably skip the oyster shell flower.

Definitely get the glacial rock dust no matter what and maybe even basalt if you can spend more.

The crab meal is a double knockout so to speak. It is a slow release calcium source (needs to be broken down my soil microbes). The chitin in the crab meal, when broken down my microbes, releases chitinase into the soil which is toxic to many tiny pest organisms in the soil. On top of that, as I have already said, it adds variety to your calcium sources.

If it were me I would get the glacial dust, oyster shell flower, and crab meal as a minimum.

If you find your soil is lacking magnesium I would maybe scratch the oyster shell flower and go with the gypsum flower. You cam even do both, but you would maybe only want to mix the gypsum and oyster shell at .5cup per 10 gallons of soil.

You want your microbes to eat rock minerals. Binging on organic matter can be a recipe for soil nutrient deficiency.

 

[SweetSue]

iwitfum, if you can find it and afford it I'd go with Basalt. Glacial rock dust can be pretty hit or miss. The rest of CC's recommendations are spot on.

Thank you CC.

 

[TheRoach]

Is basalt rock dust expensive? I was speaking today with a representative from a local quarry. He offers to sell me 1m3 of basalt rock dust for $25 USD. That's 1000 liters of dust. I'm now convinced of buying it. I think it will be 20 sacks of rockdust, 50l each. So it will be down to $1.25 for 50 liters of basalt rock dust. I will do some research and post here about the different types of rockdust..
Regards!

 

[iwltfum]

Thank you all for the thoughtful answers to my questions. Seems to be alot of great knowledge held by the folks here!

After visiting all three grow stores in my town looking for glacial rock dust and oyster shells, one of them finally directed me to the feed store for the oyster shells. (apparently chickens eat oyster shells?) They were selling it by the 2 cup bag for about a buck a piece, so I bought 4 (8 cups).

ClosedCircuit, If I add more castings, it throws off my nitrogen ratio, should I just add more P and K amendments to balance the ratio? I would have to add several more cups of rock phos, kelp and bone meal to the equation to keep the 4-7-3 ratio. Seems like alot of those things, and it's getting pricey! EDIT: also, why not add lime? I was going to use it as a buffering agent because there are alot of pine trees where I live and the coco pile (recycled soil) is full of pine needles. Could I use diatomaceous earth instead?

Roach, that is ALOT of rock dust. 264 gallons (basically 5, 55gallon drums!). You could start selling 5 gallon buckets of it for planting purposes and make a small fortune!

I am trying to source a cheaper Potassium amendment (kelp and seaweed are pretty expensive in the mountains). Any one have any ideas? I have wood ash, but the acidity concerns me.

 

[iwltfum]

Sorry for the non-stop flow of questions, but have any of you tried using potassium sulfate (potash) in your soils as a K amendment? Any idea of how much to use? It's 0-0-52
EDIT: my math is telling me to use about 2 tablespoons for every ten gallons of soil

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Is basalt rock dust expensive? I was speaking today with a representative from a local quarry. He offers to sell me 1m3 of basalt rock dust for $25 USD. That's 1000 liters of dust. I'm now convinced of buying it. I think it will be 20 sacks of rockdust, 50l each. So it will be down to $1.25 for 50 liters of basalt rock dust. I will do some research and post here about the different types of rockdust..
Regards!

Hot damn thats alot of Basalt. For $25?! Do it!

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Thank you all for the thoughtful answers to my questions. Seems to be alot of great knowledge held by the folks here!

After visiting all three grow stores in my town looking for glacial rock dust and oyster shells, one of them finally directed me to the feed store for the oyster shells. (apparently chickens eat oyster shells?) They were selling it by the 2 cup bag for about a buck a piece, so I bought 4 (8 cups).

ClosedCircuit, If I add more castings, it throws off my nitrogen ratio, should I just add more P and K amendments to balance the ratio? I would have to add several more cups of rock phos, kelp and bone meal to the equation to keep the 4-7-3 ratio. Seems like alot of those things, and it's getting pricey! EDIT: also, why not add lime? I was going to use it as a buffering agent because there are alot of pine trees where I live and the coco pile (recycled soil) is full of pine needles. Could I use diatomaceous earth instead?

Roach, that is ALOT of rock dust. 264 gallons (basically 5, 55gallon drums!). You could start selling 5 gallon buckets of it for planting purposes and make a small fortune!

I am trying to source a cheaper Potassium amendment (kelp and seaweed are pretty expensive in the mountains). Any one have any ideas? I have wood ash, but the acidity concerns me.

I would get your soil tested. How are you calculating these percentages? How do you know what is in your recycled garden soil? Furthermore why did you choose those proportions? I'm just curious what was guiding you in building your soil.

 

[TheRoach]

Thank you all for the thoughtful answers to my questions. Seems to be alot of great knowledge held by the folks here!

After visiting all three grow stores in my town looking for glacial rock dust and oyster shells, one of them finally directed me to the feed store for the oyster shells. (apparently chickens eat oyster shells?) They were selling it by the 2 cup bag for about a buck a piece, so I bought 4 (8 cups).

ClosedCircuit, If I add more castings, it throws off my nitrogen ratio, should I just add more P and K amendments to balance the ratio? I would have to add several more cups of rock phos, kelp and bone meal to the equation to keep the 4-7-3 ratio. Seems like alot of those things, and it's getting pricey! EDIT: also, why not add lime? I was going to use it as a buffering agent because there are alot of pine trees where I live and the coco pile (recycled soil) is full of pine needles. Could I use diatomaceous earth instead?

Roach, that is ALOT of rock dust. 264 gallons (basically 5, 55gallon drums!). You could start selling 5 gallon buckets of it for planting purposes and make a small fortune!

I am trying to source a cheaper Potassium amendment (kelp and seaweed are pretty expensive in the mountains). Any one have any ideas? I have wood ash, but the acidity concerns me.

Oat bran has a lot of potassium and phosphorus, you can use a cup per every three gallons.
I thought the same about the basalt dust, but then I realized not many people know about the benefits of ruck dust in the garden. I think I will use it in my garden and grow room, and also add it to the soil I sell (I sell ornamentals and soil in my neighborhood)

Hot damn thats alot of Basalt. For $25?! Do it!

Yes 1000 liters should last me a lifetime, but I have been thinking of ways of using it as mentioned above. Also I have been thinking of a business venture where they may come handy.

 

[iwltfum]

I would get your soil tested. How are you calculating these percentages? How do you know what is in your recycled garden soil? Furthermore why did you choose those proportions? I'm just curious what was guiding you in building your soil.

I don't know if I have the funds to get it lab tested for the moment, but I will definitely be doing all the home tests that I can (phos, pH, trace minerals)

I created a spread sheet that balances NPK's in a soil recipe based on the "percent available" of each ingredient as compared to the end-total volume. I don't like to brag, but I'm quite proud of it. lol. I'm having trouble figuring out what actual percentages are normally in the standard brand name organic potting soils (FF, Roots, mendo, ect). I basically just have it narrowed down to a ratio between the three macro nutrients, which is why I decided to go light on the ingredients with npk's to start off. I can always supplement nutrients, but I can't take them back out of the soil!

I chose the proportions for this bloom recipe based off of my take from several different "one part" bloom nutrient lines and the one "bloom" potting soil that I could find npk's on. I can't remember which one anymore.

Basically, someone dropped a couple storage bins worth of organic amendments on me a couple years ago and I want to do something with them, but I can't find a soil recipe that incorporates enough of these exact ingredients that I have. I would just end up having to go out and buy a whole second arsenal of amendments which would leave me with even more of them than when I started. And I would have only used 1/3-1/2 of the original ingredients that I'm trying to get rid of in the first place. anyway, rambling. Thanks again for taking the time to help me with this! Much appreciated.

EDIT: The lady at the feed store looked at me like I was crazy when I told her that I was going to add the oyster shells to some soil.

 

[SweetSue]

I like your idea of use what's on hand and it sounds like you did some serious advance research and preparation. I like your chances.

I can see the value in having your soil tested but it's probably something I will never do. If I'm happy with the harvest I'm happy with the soil. If I were having abysmal luck with my soil maybe, but for the hobby grower this is usually an unnecessary expense IMHO.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I don't know if I have the funds to get it lab tested for the moment, but I will definitely be doing all the home tests that I can (phos, pH, trace minerals)

I created a spread sheet that balances NPK's in a soil recipe based on the "percent available" of each ingredient as compared to the end-total volume. I don't like to brag, but I'm quite proud of it. lol. I'm having trouble figuring out what actual percentages are normally in the standard brand name organic potting soils (FF, Roots, mendo, ect). I basically just have it narrowed down to a ratio between the three macro nutrients, which is why I decided to go light on the ingredients with npk's to start off. I can always supplement nutrients, but I can't take them back out of the soil!

I chose the proportions for this bloom recipe based off of my take from several different "one part" bloom nutrient lines and the one "bloom" potting soil that I could find npk's on. I can't remember which one anymore.

Basically, someone dropped a couple storage bins worth of organic amendments on me a couple years ago and I want to do something with them, but I can't find a soil recipe that incorporates enough of these exact ingredients that I have. I would just end up having to go out and buy a whole second arsenal of amendments which would leave me with even more of them than when I started. And I would have only used 1/3-1/2 of the original ingredients that I'm trying to get rid of in the first place. anyway, rambling. Thanks again for taking the time to help me with this! Much appreciated.

EDIT: The lady at the feed store looked at me like I was crazy when I told her that I was going to add the oyster shells to some soil.

Ah makes sense.

Still, I would caution you to not just think about soil within the constraints of NPK. If a slight imbalance of those three nutrients comes at the cost of an abundance of other nutrients and microbes I would hazard the risk. Focusing only on NPK will guarantee you a deficiency elsewhere. To use castings as an example, there is ALOT more in there than Nitrogen...including things like beneficial microbes which do not contribute anything nutritionally, but serve a pivotal role in the soil.

 

[iwltfum]

Ah makes sense.

Still, I would caution you to not just think about soil within the constraints of NPK. If a slight imbalance of those three nutrients comes at the cost of an abundance of other nutrients and microbes I would hazard the risk. Focusing only on NPK will guarantee you a deficiency elsewhere. To use castings as an example, there is ALOT more in there than Nitrogen...including things like beneficial microbes which do not contribute anything nutritionally, but serve a pivotal role in the soil.

I have an inoculant mix that I'm planning on adding to the mix as well as trichoderma spores and I'm planning on watering with casting tea throughout the growth of the plants. Making casting tea is one of my favorite things to do! But I see what your getting at. Hmmm.. well I made a batch today. It's sitting in the corner of my veg room cooking away. I might re-do some numbers and see if I can keep the ratios balanced with more castings without having use ludicrous amounts of bone meal and kelp. Maybe I'll just add more castings anyway. They have lots of calcium in them as well!

I guess oyster shells have chitins in them too so I'm counting on them to do some work since I couldn't find crab meal.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I like your idea of use what's on hand and it sounds like you did some serious advance research and preparation. I like your chances.

I can see the value in having your soil tested but it's probably something I will never do. If I'm happy with the harvest I'm happy with the soil. If I were having abysmal luck with my soil maybe, but for the hobby grower this is usually an unnecessary expense IMHO.

Just to throw a cost out there, it would cost me $10 to test my soil plus postage if I sent it to VTech's soil lab.

 

[iwltfum]

Just to throw a cost out there, it would cost me $10 to test my soil plus postage if I sent it to VTech's soil lab.

I guess I'm not THAT hard up. Maybe I'll send it over and see what they find. Hell I might do it once before it cooks and once after at that price. Do they look at bacterial/fungal content?

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I have an inoculant mix that I'm planning on adding to the mix as well as trichoderma spores and I'm planning on watering with casting tea throughout the growth of the plants. Making casting tea is one of my favorite things to do! But I see what your getting at. Hmmm.. well I made a batch today. It's sitting in the corner of my veg room cooking away. I might re-do some numbers and see if I can keep the ratios balanced with more castings without having use ludicrous amounts of bone meal and kelp. Maybe I'll just add more castings anyway. They have lots of calcium in them as well!

I guess oyster shells have chitins in them too so I'm counting on them to do some work since I couldn't find crab meal.

I don't mean to make you do anything you don't want to. There really is a dozen and one ways you could go about this. I just wanted to get you thinking about some other things you might not have considered.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I guess I'm not THAT hard up. Maybe I'll send it over and see what they find. Hell I might do it once before it cooks and once after at that price. Do they look at bacterial/fungal content?

I would look at soil testing done at colleges around you so you could save on postage. But here is the labs main page Department of Crop and Soil Environmental Sciences - Virginia Tech Soil Testing Lab | Virginia Tech

They have in state and out of state pricing. Fees and Forms | Department of Crop and Soil Environmental Sciences - Virginia Tech Soil Testing Lab | Virginia Tech

You are supposed to send them samples in a special box. They mention something about testing taking longer if you don't. So I would call them and see what they say.

 

[SweetSue]

That's a very reasonable price. I'm pleasantly surprised.