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Brand Spankin New ViparSpectra KS5000 Grows Herbies Seeds Collection In LOS
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HERBIES LADIES GET TOPPED UNDER THE GLOW OF VIPARSPECTRA KS5000 UPDATE
WOOHOO! They convinced me it was time today! First I saw the mag I added had a real growth effect. They're cooking now. Second, Blueberry Hill is reaching for the sky! Good timing for all I think. Here they are topless today soaking up some rays. Maybe 4 or 5 days I'll be able to tee up the tops and see what kind of a canopy we can make.
WOOHOO! They convinced me it was time today! First I saw the mag I added had a real growth effect. They're cooking now. Second, Blueberry Hill is reaching for the sky! Good timing for all I think. Here they are topless today soaking up some rays. Maybe 4 or 5 days I'll be able to tee up the tops and see what kind of a canopy we can make.
Four guaranteed beasts is what you'll make!
I think its actually N that's locked up.
I presume both locked, one to the other.
According to how I understand it from @Gee64 , without adequate Ca, the Mg binds up the N and locks it up. So, it looks like an N deficiency, when in reality it is Ca. Once the Ca is supplied, the binding releases and a flood of N can give a temporary excess.
But I think Stone was having a low Mg issue which was corrected with Epsom. Maybe. I don't understand all the interrelationships all that well.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Its actually possible for both to get locked.
Think the platters of food. Theres a platter with all cations on it, including magnesium. Ready for the plant to eat it. Thats the food. Ready to go.
Theres also soil structure that relies on calcium to restrict magnesium's electrical stickiness, so when cal gets low in the soil magnesium gets stickier and attracts and bonds to things. It likes nitrogen the best.
(Excess magnesium is said to be able to bind 1 for 1 mag to nitro. I don't know if its true but I have read it more than once.)
So if its bonded to nitrogen a nitrogen deficiency appears. Nitrogen is called Locked Out.
Now back to the platter of food.
The plant wants the magnesium but in order for a magnesium to come off, another, or a different cation of the same charge must hop onto the platter. If the platter can't recognize new magnesium because it has nitrogen attached to it, then there may be no recognizable magnesium for the Cation Exchange to supply to the plant so...
In some situations adding calcium to the soil relaxes magnesiums grip unlocking nitrogen, the nitrogen deficiency goes away PLUS magnesium is now recognizable to the Cation Exchange and food flows again, including magnesium.
Or you could be low on nitrogen, or magnesium, or calcium.
Start with calcium.
Usually you add a nitro fert like fish or a tea, and it doesn't work so your thinking wtf? The nitrogen is there, just locked.
If adding calcium works it unlocks that nitrogen plus all atmospheric nitrogen so quite often adding cal actually causes nitrogen toxicity, but short lived. 1 or 2 sets of leaves get clawed. Then it corrects and grows good.
Thats why your Dad always limed the lawn. Limestone is calcium. Makes grass greener.
Think the platters of food. Theres a platter with all cations on it, including magnesium. Ready for the plant to eat it. Thats the food. Ready to go.
Theres also soil structure that relies on calcium to restrict magnesium's electrical stickiness, so when cal gets low in the soil magnesium gets stickier and attracts and bonds to things. It likes nitrogen the best.
(Excess magnesium is said to be able to bind 1 for 1 mag to nitro. I don't know if its true but I have read it more than once.)
So if its bonded to nitrogen a nitrogen deficiency appears. Nitrogen is called Locked Out.
Now back to the platter of food.
The plant wants the magnesium but in order for a magnesium to come off, another, or a different cation of the same charge must hop onto the platter. If the platter can't recognize new magnesium because it has nitrogen attached to it, then there may be no recognizable magnesium for the Cation Exchange to supply to the plant so...
In some situations adding calcium to the soil relaxes magnesiums grip unlocking nitrogen, the nitrogen deficiency goes away PLUS magnesium is now recognizable to the Cation Exchange and food flows again, including magnesium.
Or you could be low on nitrogen, or magnesium, or calcium.
Start with calcium.
Usually you add a nitro fert like fish or a tea, and it doesn't work so your thinking wtf? The nitrogen is there, just locked.
If adding calcium works it unlocks that nitrogen plus all atmospheric nitrogen so quite often adding cal actually causes nitrogen toxicity, but short lived. 1 or 2 sets of leaves get clawed. Then it corrects and grows good.
Thats why your Dad always limed the lawn. Limestone is calcium. Makes grass greener.
Thank you! That's a very understandable explanation Gee, so it might not be necessary to slurry test and give it a dose of calcium first and watch what happens in general?
Otter, didn't you say you were growing in well used soil plus amendment? Your aggrie, do they do a test for you?
Gee, my Rosemary is yellow and so I have been putting her through wet and dry cycles to see if she was droughting or drowning, and this morning I gave her some fish fert. Do you think that might fix it, or should I add a shot of calcium?
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Yes I will! Try my best!
That's how locked up my brain can get Azi. I will get this!
Yes it's got 6 or 8 grows in it and has been amended each time. It's full of what makes the world a fertile place! I just need to find the balance there. @Gee has been a patient tutor to a pretty thick student. I always did have a problem trusting my tools until I got to a tipping point of knowledge. Electrical theory(including tube theory) was one that took a while to apply. This is another little bump I'll get over.
I would think it's a good idea to rebalance it with a soil test at this time. They haven't gotten back to me with what test I should order yet.
Thanks GEE!
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I don't know much about Rosemary but I always start with calcium.Thank you! That's a very understandable explanation Gee, so it might not be necessary to slurry test and give it a dose of calcium first and watch what happens in general?
Otter, didn't you say you were growing in well used soil plus amendment? Your aggrie, do they do a test for you?
Gee, my Rosemary is yellow and so I have been putting her through wet and dry cycles to see if she was droughting or drowning, and this morning I gave her some fish fert. Do you think that might fix it, or should I add a shot of calcium?
I give every plant I own a nice slow steady topdressing of EWC. Its got lots of good calcium in it which keeps the soil well conditioned.
A shot of Calmag would be my 1st choice for a liquid fix. Low and slow though. 2 or 3 doses a few days apart are better than 1 strong dosage.
Fish ferts do fix alot too and are again best as preventative and added low and slow weekly but they may taint the flavor of your Rosemary so try to only get it on the soil.
When I use fish I like to water until runoff, let the pot sit for a few to finish dripping, then add the fish so it permeates into the wet pot better, helping a little bit go farther.
Is the soil hard and crusty in the Rosemary when its dry? If so Magnesium is high and it needs calcium. The mag gets crusty when it locks nitrogen.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Its not a guarantee that its actually calcium causing it. But there is a really good reason that CalMg works so well. It can fix cal,mag,iron,or nitrogen def's.Yes I will! Try my best!
That's how locked up my brain can get Azi. I will get this!
Yes it's got 6 or 8 grows in it and has been amended each time. It's full of what makes the world a fertile place! I just need to find the balance there. @Gee has been a patient tutor to a pretty thick student. I always did have a problem trusting my tools until I got to a tipping point of knowledge. Electrical theory(including tube theory) was one that took a while to apply. This is another little bump I'll get over.
I would think it's a good idea to rebalance it with a soil test at this time. They haven't gotten back to me with what test I should order yet.
Thanks GEE!
The problem is you never know which def you really had.
High mag, for most growers never happens, but mag needs to be ratioed with calcium properly, so low calcium can easily become a mag or nitro problem.
If your soil is really dusty and fine when dry then mag is low. If its crusty its high. But possibly only high or low on the ratio, so sometimes adding the one that isn't the problem fixes the ratio.
Thats for organics tho, if you are using synthetics then I have no idea.
Hopefully that makes sense lol. Watch the soil when its dry. Can you easily stick a finger in all the way?
Gee64
Well-Known Member
If you decide to start topdressing with EWC here is what I have discovered about using it.
Apply it in light doses, never over a quarter inch deep, just a light covering.
Water it in gently.
The 1st time it dries it WILL dry crusty, the cal and mag need to work things out.
Break that crustiness up immediately to a fine crumble and it shouldn't come back.
Repeat every couple weeks and things will slowly steadily improve.
Using too much at once can cause a nitro toxicity if nitro was locked, and heavy crusting, so small layers work better.
Apply it in light doses, never over a quarter inch deep, just a light covering.
Water it in gently.
The 1st time it dries it WILL dry crusty, the cal and mag need to work things out.
Break that crustiness up immediately to a fine crumble and it shouldn't come back.
Repeat every couple weeks and things will slowly steadily improve.
Using too much at once can cause a nitro toxicity if nitro was locked, and heavy crusting, so small layers work better.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Another thing, although less common, that can cause a bad nitro def is improperly cooked carbon.
For carbon to decompose it needs nitrogen, lots of it so, so if you are mixing your own soils and adding your own carbons, but not enough greens, it won't fully cook.
Then when the grow starts, the unburnt carbon in the pot will hog all the nitro to finish its decomposition.
Wood chips or bark mulch mixed into the global mix, or too many dried leaves, cause it most often.
Sawdust is a bad one too. Its an excellent carbon, but if it clumps up it takes forever to cook.
Also heres a freebee to greatly improve any organic grow using soil that you will mix, even if its just a good bag of organic soil and all you are adding is Ewc.
Mix it very well, and often. Twice a week for a month.
Soil particles are electrically attracted and also repelled from each other, so as the mix cooks and new nutes become broken down and available they need to be mixed to find others that they want to bind with, but in a good plant food kind of way, so mix that mix, fully mix it AND do it twice a week.
I find a 30 day cook is never long enough. I always go a full grow and thats usually 70 days for me.
My mix is 1to1to1 Used soil, ewc, and coco for carbon. Then I mix in perlite until I like the mix, and it sits for 2 months getting mixed weekly.
I have 4 sets of soil.
One thats cooking thru my worm farm with all amendments.
One thats mixed and sitting in a tub waiting and getting mixed weekly. The 1to1to1 mix.
One that is sitting in old pots after harvest so the myco can die and spore out.
And 1 set of soil that is currently growing my plants.
The used from the pots sitting gets split between the worm farm and mix #2, the one thats 1to1to1 and sitting for 2 months getting mixed. Some gets reammended and some is used to innoculate my new mix with myco and microlife from the last grow.
Adding carbon and perlite will make your overall soil volumes grow so it evolves into a lot of soil. Used stuff starts to collect so I put it outside in my gardens on top of a nice layer of leaves every fall. Over the years the perlite really helps outdoors.
For carbon to decompose it needs nitrogen, lots of it so, so if you are mixing your own soils and adding your own carbons, but not enough greens, it won't fully cook.
Then when the grow starts, the unburnt carbon in the pot will hog all the nitro to finish its decomposition.
Wood chips or bark mulch mixed into the global mix, or too many dried leaves, cause it most often.
Sawdust is a bad one too. Its an excellent carbon, but if it clumps up it takes forever to cook.
Also heres a freebee to greatly improve any organic grow using soil that you will mix, even if its just a good bag of organic soil and all you are adding is Ewc.
Mix it very well, and often. Twice a week for a month.
Soil particles are electrically attracted and also repelled from each other, so as the mix cooks and new nutes become broken down and available they need to be mixed to find others that they want to bind with, but in a good plant food kind of way, so mix that mix, fully mix it AND do it twice a week.
I find a 30 day cook is never long enough. I always go a full grow and thats usually 70 days for me.
My mix is 1to1to1 Used soil, ewc, and coco for carbon. Then I mix in perlite until I like the mix, and it sits for 2 months getting mixed weekly.
I have 4 sets of soil.
One thats cooking thru my worm farm with all amendments.
One thats mixed and sitting in a tub waiting and getting mixed weekly. The 1to1to1 mix.
One that is sitting in old pots after harvest so the myco can die and spore out.
And 1 set of soil that is currently growing my plants.
The used from the pots sitting gets split between the worm farm and mix #2, the one thats 1to1to1 and sitting for 2 months getting mixed. Some gets reammended and some is used to innoculate my new mix with myco and microlife from the last grow.
Adding carbon and perlite will make your overall soil volumes grow so it evolves into a lot of soil. Used stuff starts to collect so I put it outside in my gardens on top of a nice layer of leaves every fall. Over the years the perlite really helps outdoors.
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Never synthetics far as I know. Things are starting to make sense. I'm going to try cal/mag in the SIP. These 4 I don't know yet. I've always fixed it with epsom once or twice and they have a real good showing. I'm less than a week from having calcium leached into vinegar from oyster shell flour. I could maybe use that for a drench add?
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I would start with spraying it to test. Calcium drenching works well but just a bit to strong can really hurt the plants.
Quite often low cal is the culprit tho. Do you use adequate amounts of dolomite when you rebuild? Does adding nitrogen fix the deficit or does it only start to fix it and the deficit returns quickly?
If its returning quickly chances are its getting locked. Calcium will fix that but it WILL immediately make available all the extra nitro you added trying to fix the deficiency so add calcium slowly to release excess nitro not all at once.
If you add calcium and see some dark green leaf clawing, the calcium is working.
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This mix I tried some malted barley and insect frass in it. It was the first time I can say it became hard crusty in the barrel. There were thick smelly white streaks through the barrel too that may have disappeared over time after I re mixed it. Now that I'm thinking, this was a tester soil for those inputs. They didn't work out! The barrel lost inches of soil loft during cooking.
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So make a calcium vinegar/water mix and spray the soil surface? Keep it ? ppm?
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Thats good info! Go look back at exactly what you did and how that strayed from your usual inputs.
Research the new inputs and find out if maybe it just needs longer to cook.
Uncooked carbon in a pot will haunt you the entire grow. It will constantly hog all the nitrogen. Nature senses the soil isn't ready and prioritizes the soil getting finished over the plant growing, so the soil gets the nitro.
Maybe cooking it longer will be the prize you were seeking with the new mix.
And mix it lots...did I mention that lolol? Its actually very important, otherwise some pots will be different from others.
I choose 100 litre totes over barrels as its easy to mix them by hand.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Talk to Azi about this one for ppm's and stuff. He has been trying it for a week or so. Check his progress to find a starting point.
I sprayed a test pot of crusty soil with 200ppm gypsum solution and it turned to dust and fried the plant so I wouldn't go over 50-60 ppm to start. It pretty much works on contact and within 48 hours you see things greening up.
"Works on contact" can be very dangerous as once contact is made its all over, a flush won't fix whats already done.
Go slow, or better yet start topdressing ewc in. Its loaded with calcium, carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus, but all in nice friendly amounts. Try both on 2 different pots. See what transpires. Let us know pro or con.
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