Did you let them turn black/purpleThe two oldest girls have reached the edge of the pails !
Cheers
Black African Magic (2), Cafe Racer and Malawi x Panama in SIP's
- Thread starter Chuckeye
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- #182
Chuckeye
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Chuckeye
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Hello Chuckeye,
Great SIP grow and awesome harvest ! Lots of talk @Azimuth about top vs bottom watering and problems if only bottom watering is used. I continue to have problems around week 4 of flower if I only water from the bottom. Can you go into detail your latest watering program for your SIPs.
I'm in Faux mix and I use a version of Farsides' FN nutes @farside05
They look great thru veg and for the first week or so of flower. Looking for combo of top and bottom to keep them from going off track.
Great SIP grow and awesome harvest ! Lots of talk @Azimuth about top vs bottom watering and problems if only bottom watering is used. I continue to have problems around week 4 of flower if I only water from the bottom. Can you go into detail your latest watering program for your SIPs.
I'm in Faux mix and I use a version of Farsides' FN nutes @farside05
They look great thru veg and for the first week or so of flower. Looking for combo of top and bottom to keep them from going off track.
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- #185
Chuckeye
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What kind of problems ?
On my first run, started in July, my plants were leaning a few weeks after transplant, I think there was not enough moisture higher up and lack of feeder roots to hold the plant up ! IIRC dry down to four inches...
So I started feeding from the top every four or so days. I wait until the reservoir is down to less than 1/4 and then feed a gallon from the top. Run off would be roughly a litre, I like to think of this as a mini flush !
I roughly followed this the whole grow.
On two of the four pails I increased the perlite ratio of the ProMix HP to 50%, didn't notice any difference !
On this run, my second run in SIP's, started in January, I followed the same schedule but mid to late flower the medium was wet to the top so I quit top watering. Wet enough that white fuzzy stuff was growing
The only difference I can think of is this grow my rh was higher, over 50% compared to low 40's....
Everything else was roughly the same except a summer/fall vs winter/spring grow....
I've read reports that top watering defeats the wicking action but with both grows the reservoirs were going down normally.
With the medium wet top to bottom, top watered to run off, the girls didn't miss a beat. Just didn't care to see the white fuzzy stuff...
Next grow I'm going to try to keep the medium wet to within an inch or two from the top and top water accordingly.
I use a wood skewer to find the wet level, just stick it in and give it five minutes or so. It's obvious where the moisture is...
Cheers
@Flatfish , the top watering discussion we're having is mostly related to organic grows. Top watering can help keep the microbes and upper feeder roots engaged, and it also helps with adding calcium and fresh microbes up top so it can settle down through the mix.
Calcium helps maintain soil structure since it is crucial to maintain the proper electric charge in the soil.
I had been mostly watering through the fill tube and maintaining only enough water in the reservoir for a day or two. That set-up vegged like a beast but I routinely had issues with potassium around week 3-4 of flower (5-6 weeks after flip).
We've come to the likely conclusion that my soil was overly wet in my small buckets which was prohibiting the microbes from properly doing their jobs. So, I'm trying a run with allowing the soil to run at a much lower moisture level, no use of the reservoir and top watering only and that seems to be going better.
Once I see how it goes through to harvest I'll make some adjustments but I'll probably do at least a weekly top watering. I'm also making changes to my bucket design and grow mix so I'm not sure if any of what I'm learning would translate to your grow.
But, bottom line, contrary to what we thought early on, some top watering seems helpful and maybe even needed, but that may very well depend on your set-up, soil and nute mix.
I love this thread!!! Thanks to all that participate!
I love my SIPs and excited to see it evolve to the next level!
I love my SIPs and excited to see it evolve to the next level!
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- #188
Chuckeye
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Just to be clear @Azimuth, @Flatfish (and anyone else late to the party) if you missed it I am using ProMix HP and feeding Mega Crop one part !
ProMix HP is soilless and does not contain any nutrients, it is also ph buffered !
Mega Crop one part is also ph buffered !
I do not have any problems with stall at transplant or any other stage of growth !
When I was in fabric pots I did over feed but that was easily corrected with a 3x flush and less nutrients
You organic guys, well YMMV
Cheers
ProMix HP is soilless and does not contain any nutrients, it is also ph buffered !
Mega Crop one part is also ph buffered !
I do not have any problems with stall at transplant or any other stage of growth !
When I was in fabric pots I did over feed but that was easily corrected with a 3x flush and less nutrients
You organic guys, well YMMV
Cheers
I’m on the same train! Love it!Just to be clear @Azimuth, @Flatfish (and anyone else late to the party) if you missed it I am using ProMix HP and feeding Mega Crop one part !
ProMix HP is soilless and does not contain any nutrients, it is also ph buffered !
Mega Crop one part is also ph buffered !
I do not have any problems with stall at transplant or any other stage of growth !
When I was in fabric pots I did over feed but that was easily corrected with a 3x flush and less nutrients
You organic guys, well YMMV
Cheers
Thanks guys ! Definitely nutrient problems ! I can run the same mix and nutes in fabric bags and they are smoking !!Just to be clear @Azimuth, @Flatfish (and anyone else late to the party) if you missed it I am using ProMix HP and feeding Mega Crop one part !
ProMix HP is soilless and does not contain any nutrients, it is also ph buffered !
Mega Crop one part is also ph buffered !
I do not have any problems with stall at transplant or any other stage of growth !
When I was in fabric pots I did over feed but that was easily corrected with a 3x flush and less nutrients
You organic guys, well YMMV
Cheers
10-4 on the Promix HP and MC. That is essentially what Farsides Faux mix and FN nute are. ... Not exactly, but where he started the recipe
Are you adding anything for silica either pot silicate or mono silicate ??
They veg great but soon after flower starts, they just struggle ,stretch is less, start losing color and what I also feel is a potassium def and some calcium spots thrown in. I've tried many changes but the only solution has been to totally convert to just top watering. Kind of defeats the purpose of the SIP.
One thing I definitely do different is I keep the res full most of the time. And when I fill its till the overflow is showing at least a few small drops.
Ill try your method of watering and see if I can make a difference. At some point if the top watering becomes a major part of SIP growing, it would seem to start losing its appeal and just go back to fabric and catching runoff.
@Azimuth So on your next grow are you going to SIP and try like a 2 res feed and then 1 top feed ? Or just go all top feed and still use the SIP container ?
Appreciate the input everyone !!
Lol. That's why I made the 'organic grows' qualifier. Synthetic nute growers don't seem to have the same issues, though @Flatfish seems to be uniting the two camps!You organic guys, well YMMV
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- #192
Chuckeye
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Nothing but MC, no ph down, no bloom boosters. Didn't really see any difference with Bud Explosion...
KISS
I'm probably mid to late veg before I fill the reservoir every day !
On this last grow towards late flower I let them go two or three days before watering, didn't seem to make any difference as long as the medium was still "wet"....
I'm sure you will get it dialed in but for me I seem to have a wide range between how much water is enough.
As far as deficiencies go, I've only had one plant show a nutrient deficiency. A dose of Bud Explosion fixed that right up
Cheers
With an organic grow one can measure the health of the plant by measuring brix, a measure of dissolved sugars in the plant material. The higher the reading, the healthier the plant.
Since my goal is better medicine, the grow will be driven be chasing brix.
My plan is to start off with top watering until the brix level is sufficiently high and then start testing different reservoir levels. I'd like to find some sort of pattern like you suggest that will allow me to have high brix but also utilize the power the SIP structure provides.
I top dress weekly so ideally simply top watering those in and then watering down the pipe the rest of the week will work but that remains to be seen.
Part of my issue is small pots and a diy soil mix that might be too wet so that's why I said my nutrient deficiencies might be resolved by a completely different approach than yours.
For you, I'd probably start with a weekly top watering (especially with your cal-mag input) and lower the reservoir to just what the plant will drink in 1-2 days. Maybe even let it go dry for a day in between cycles.
I drought my plants late in flower and, with the water bank held in the soil, it takes a good week or more before it drains enough water to even start seeing a droop in the leaves. That's probably five days after the reservoir went dry. Crazy.
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- #195
Chuckeye
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Thanks Chuckeye !Nothing but MC, no ph down, no bloom boosters. Didn't really see any difference with Bud Explosion...
KISS
I'm probably mid to late veg before I fill the reservoir every day !
On this last grow towards late flower I let them go two or three days before watering, didn't seem to make any difference as long as the medium was still "wet"....
I'm sure you will get it dialed in but for me I seem to have a wide range between how much water is enough.
As far as deficiencies go, I've only had one plant show a nutrient deficiency. A dose of Bud Explosion fixed that right up
Cheers
Seems your top watering is focused on trying to get the upper roots to grow and contribute.
Do you see a large percentage of water or hydro roots in your Gro buckets ? Or is there a combination of both root types ?
When I grow in 5 gal gro buckets I get a combo of both. I made my own 7 gal SIPs and they have performed better ( longer) before the issue showed up, but it still cut some growth and production. In my 7 gal I had almost entirely water roots. See the pic below. They were huge, and I expect they all got established during veg.
I’ll
I’m going to try to keep her dryer this next round and maybe do some mini flushes as Chuckeye calls them !
Thanks Azi
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- #198
Chuckeye
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A combination of both....
I'll have some root ball shots shortly
Maybe tonight unless I get carried away with my second test of the Malawi x Panama
First test last night was a success, he, he... Made cooking supper interesting
Cheers
No rush ! Enjoy that Malawi !A combination of both....
I'll have some root ball shots shortly
Maybe tonight unless I get carried away with my second test of the Malawi x Panama
First test last night was a success, he, he... Made cooking supper interesting
Cheers
Cross posted, looking for advice !
As many of you know I'm a die hard HID user !
But, my ballast has passed away and I'm due for two new tubes.
Thinking about investing that money into an appropriate sized bar light
And finally quenching my curiously
I don't Need a Mega Watt monster but would like to come somewhat close to what my 600w HID was producing.
Currently looking at (@VIVOSUN ) VS FD 6500 (~$600) and the (@Mars Hydro ) FC-E4800 (~$490)...
Sponsors Gladly Accepted !
FYI > I plan to continue growing Sativa's but am actually looking at training methods to Reduce my yields !
Still in SIP's and 4 strains per grow in a 4' x 4' enclosure that expands to +5' x 5' if needed.
Comments appreciated !
Cheers
For what it's worth, I have 3 Mars Hydro FC 3000 Full Spectrum 300W LED lights and have never had any problems with them. It's probably more light than you need but I do think @Mars Hydro lights are good quality so you should get a winner with whichever one you get.
And, congrats on the great yields and great smokes!