BCNL Producer & DIY Cabs 3 Strains

[WeednFeed]

Interesting ducting - is it helping with the temps? I'm so dumb when it comes to that sort of thing! For some reason, venting and ducting just makes my brain mush, but I'm finally getting the basics, lol. I know it's not that complicated, but I am a slooow learner regarding that stuff.

It looks great - and nice and clean. Hope it helps!

Yes, it has helped significantly. The glass above is only warm to the touch. Seems to be about a 6-8 degree drop thus far. I believe it will be greater as I need to get/add a backdraft damper (think of that as a check-valve as it only allows flow in one direction) at the carbon filter. Right now, the majority of the air that is being exhausted from the producer is going out of the room. A small amount is still bleeding back into the room via the carbon filter, thus taxing it without need and adding a bit to the ambient temp. The damper will cease that as it will only allow air to come from the direction of the filter... not towards it. It will only allow air to pass through the filter while the main blower is on... as it should be. I may also be adding an inductor fan... that is a small fan (similar in power to a box fan) built inside a 6" length of 4" duct to assist the air outward.

If you're ever in need of ventilation help I'd be pleased to assist. While no pro, I have picked up the essentials.

 

[WeednFeed]

I've read widely of BCNL cabinet user's complaints of high temps. I believe these are erroneous and misplaced due largely to a misunderstanding of how to handle heat. Regardless of which model, all grow cabinets are subject to the heat that the contained wattage and their necessary ballasts emit. That said, it is then incumbent upon the user to address the heat once it leaves a cabinet. It seems the greatest misconception is that you merely have to plug the thing in, and as a good deal of money was spent on the product temperature should not be a concern. Far from the truth.

In my case with the package I purchased, BCNL gave me the parts to efficiently address the issue.
Included was: 25' flexi-duct, 2 nicely finished rigid adapter flanges to allow duct hookup to cabinet, 2-clamps to secure ducting to flanges, and 1-4" "Y" duct junction. Once assembled (simply- in 15 mins), those parts alone easily allow the warm air to be directed from the grow room/area. For some this may be a logistical concern, but nonetheless, one that must be factored. This waste heat can simply be exhausted out of the dwelling where practical, or better yet directed to an area for comfort.

Seems to me that a good basis of understanding for any cabinet grow would be to accept that ALL grow cabinets will emit heat equal to the amount of energy being consumed, i.e. a cabinet with 2-400watt lamps and two ballasts will put out as much heat as 2-400watt lamps and two ballasts will generate. The tab for the heat will always be picked up by the user. Fix that in your head before buying or building and all will be just fine.

I've read a few accounts of very dissatisfied customers turning around and selling their units as they claimed the heat was too great. Perhaps this can help to avoid future misunderstanding and disappointment.

 

[Marley15]

Yo WnF, great write up on heat. One of the biggest issues for growers and often one of the most overlooked.

I struggle with the same low RH in veg as you are. I sit around 40% or so outside the cab, and 15%-30% inside during veg. A few weeks into flowering and it stayed relatively consistent at 35%-45%. I think this has contributed to some of the early issues I've had both this grow and last in veg.

You say your humidifier in the room (not cab) isn't helping at all? Hmm..that's a bummer to hear because that was my plan for next go around. My cab is too small to get one inside.

I've got a question for you in regards to backdraft damper. Do you run your exhaust fan 100% of the time? If so, wouldn't there be sufficient pull from the fan as to not let any air escape through the filter? Seems to me it creates a vacuum with air only being pulled. I have no clue this is all speculation. If this is not the case, I need to look into one of those myself as my filter sits in the cab.

 

[Xlr8]

Yes, it has helped significantly. The glass above is only warm to the touch. Seems to be about a 6-8 degree drop thus far. I believe it will be greater as I need to get/add a backdraft damper (think of that as a check-valve as it only allows flow in one direction) at the carbon filter. Right now, the majority of the air that is being exhausted from the producer is going out of the room. A small amount is still bleeding back into the room via the carbon filter, thus taxing it without need and adding a bit to the ambient temp. The damper will cease that as it will only allow air to come from the direction of the filter... not towards it. It will only allow air to pass through the filter while the main blower is on... as it should be. I may also be adding an inductor fan... that is a small fan (similar in power to a box fan) built inside a 6" length of 4" duct to assist the air outward.

If you're ever in need of ventilation help I'd be pleased to assist. While no pro, I have picked up the essentials.

Thanks for the offer - don't be surprised if I take you up on it one day! Glad it's helping keep your temps in check. Nice work!

 

[WeednFeed]

Yo WnF, great write up on heat. One of the biggest issues for growers and often one of the most overlooked.

I struggle with the same low RH in veg as you are. I sit around 40% or so outside the cab, and 15%-30% inside during veg. A few weeks into flowering and it stayed relatively consistent at 35%-45%. I think this has contributed to some of the early issues I've had both this grow and last in veg.

You say your humidifier in the room (not cab) isn't helping at all? Hmm..that's a bummer to hear because that was my plan for next go around. My cab is too small to get one inside.

I've got a question for you in regards to backdraft damper. Do you run your exhaust fan 100% of the time? If so, wouldn't there be sufficient pull from the fan as to not let any air escape through the filter? Seems to me it creates a vacuum with air only being pulled. I have no clue this is all speculation. If this is not the case, I need to look into one of those myself as my filter sits in the cab.

Thanks much Marley. My guess is that low RH during early veg is that there is not enough plant mass to conduct significant transpiration. Please take a look at the following, it is a quote from xlr8 and I believe a very good suggestion. He has good history with a BCNL cab.

"You could try a clean damp cloth with a fan blowing near it (inside the box) to bring RH up during this early veg."

Just keep it moistened and there's a lot of evaporative surface area working for you!

If my humidifier is helping it's marginal from what I can tell. The RH in the room is great, but I don't know if it burns off quickly in the cab or what. We all know know that warmer air holds more moisture, therefore you'd think there'd be a tad more in there.

You're spot-on about the exhaust fan and vacuum being pulled at that stage. Thus the damper. I run the blower for 15min/hr and that seems to keep the odor in check as well as pulling fresh air in. Personally I think it smells better than a rose. Come to think of it... maybe next year I can give my Bride a dozen buds!
Call 1-800-BUD-WIFE, that's 1-800-BUD-WIFE.

 

[WeednFeed]

Thanks for the offer - don't be surprised if I take you up on it one day! Glad it's helping keep your temps in check. Nice work!

Thanks... it would be a pleasant surprise if you did! I referred your RH suggestion to Marley. That's a great idea!

 

[Mr. Krip]

WnF, great point on heat!

Another factor I think is often overlooked is ambient temperatures.

If the temps outside the cab are 75*F, then, it doesn't matter how many fans you have circulating air, the air will NEVER get cooler than 75* unless you do something else to cool it. Fan's don't cool, per se, they just move air. So, they can move cooler air in (if air is cooler outside, only!), or hotter air out, but they won't provide cooling alone.

If you have low ambient temps, you may just need to move relatively little cold air in to sufficiently cool the cab, while if ambient temps are high, you'll need to be moving much more air to effect the same change in cab temps.

 

[WeednFeed]

Thank you Mr Krip. Good point there on ambient temps. I'd add that as long as there is adequate air exchange in the cab (3-5 times per/min) then things are golden if temps and RH are in range... at least according to the bibles I've read.

 

[Xlr8]

I've read widely of BCNL cabinet user's complaints of high temps. I believe these are erroneous and misplaced due largely to a misunderstanding of how to handle heat. Regardless of which model, all grow cabinets are subject to the heat that the contained wattage and their necessary ballasts emit. That said, it is then incumbent upon the user to address the heat once it leaves a cabinet. It seems the greatest misconception is that you merely have to plug the thing in, and as a good deal of money was spent on the product temperature should not be a concern. Far from the truth.

In my case with the package I purchased, BCNL gave me the parts to efficiently address the issue.
Included was: 25' flexi-duct, 2 nicely finished rigid adapter flanges to allow duct hookup to cabinet, 2-clamps to secure ducting to flanges, and 1-4" "Y" duct junction. Once assembled (simply- in 15 mins), those parts alone easily allow the warm air to be directed from the grow room/area. For some this may be a logistical concern, but nonetheless, one that must be factored. This waste heat can simply be exhausted out of the dwelling where practical, or better yet directed to an area for comfort.

Seems to me that a good basis of understanding for any cabinet grow would be to accept that ALL grow cabinets will emit heat equal to the amount of energy being consumed, i.e. a cabinet with 2-400watt lamps and two ballasts will put out as much heat as 2-400watt lamps and two ballasts will generate. The tab for the heat will always be picked up by the user. Fix that in your head before buying or building and all will be just fine.

I've read a few accounts of very dissatisfied customers turning around and selling their units as they claimed the heat was too great. Perhaps this can help to avoid future misunderstanding and disappointment.

This is great Weed, and I think it's right on. I mentioned not having heat issues with mine, but I think what I left out of that was the thought that went into where I put it, passive ventilation, the right filter, etc. When first purchased, my chosen location didn't provide enough passive ventilation - and I've already mentioned my low knowledge base on ducting - so I had to rethink placement etc. Anyway - nicely and accurately put!

 

[WeednFeed]

This is great Weed, and I think it's right on. I mentioned not having heat issues with mine, but I think what I left out of that was the thought that went into where I put it, passive ventilation, the right filter, etc. When first purchased, my chosen location didn't provide enough passive ventilation - and I've already mentioned my low knowledge base on ducting - so I had to rethink placement etc. Anyway - nicely and accurately put!

Thanks kindly for the compliments xlr8. I think your circumstance is exceptional based on your stated temps (and results)... all from an ambient of 67. You've proven the importance of placement very well.

While researching before purchase it was apparent temps were a consistant theme. That did not disappoint.

 

[WeednFeed]

Dear Diary. Nothing very remarkable to report today. Some root growth, a little filling out of some leaves. Temp is nice and I think I'll be able to bring it down a bit more with a damper & inductor fan. I hope these clones take off quickly if only for the fact that I wont need to keep the moms as full for cloning. They're in honest need of trimming.

 

[Siscokid]

Thanks for making me shoot me beer out my nose!

 

[WeednFeed]

Thanks for making me shoot me beer out my nose!

Now how did you get hold of a picture of my face?! What the hell... the other night it was herb, tonight it's beer. You know, the more I hang around this place the more glaringly apparent it is to me that some, yes some posters may actually have a substance abuse blessing.

Have a good night sisco... I know you will.

ps. Sorry about that whole beer-nose thing. I got the next round.

 

[Xlr8]

Thanks... it would be a pleasant surprise if you did! I referred your RH suggestion to Marley. That's a great idea!

Well, I think I got that specific idea from TMac originally, so I can't take credit for it really - she's my inspiration there. But, I think that's what makes this community rock - everyone helping and passing on what they learned. Glad the idea gained traction.

Way to go TMac - if you read this!

As far as temps - I've seen the same complaints about temps on this forum and others. I think you summarized it perfectly. Just because these cost a pretty penny, it doesn't mean they don't take a little effort on our end once we get them. Fortunately, it's not much effort usually in the grand scheme of things...

 

[WeednFeed]

Well spoken my friend. That heat topic seems in many cases to be addressed during the grow rather than before it... when it should be disambiguated. Cart before the horse kind of thing. I think we're fortunate to have the flexibility within our systems to address it with that "little effort" you mentioned.

 

[Xlr8]

Well spoken my friend. That heat topic seems in many cases to be addressed during the grow rather than before it... when it should be disambiguated. Cart before the horse kind of thing. I think we're fortunate to have the flexibility within our systems to address it with that "little effort" you mentioned.

I do a "dry" run every time I tweak something - for example, new filter, new airstones, new reservoir pump. All things I've had to address between grows, but made sure to test it empty first to see if problems would arise.

BTW - airstones just wore out (they seem to have a limited lifespan) and my own carelessness broke the pump (but it wasn't bad to replace). Filter seems to be good for a couple of grows before you need a new one. I went with a different model. But I have you as my "go to" guy when I want to upgrade ventilation next time (no, I'm not kidding lol)!!

 

[WeednFeed]

I do a "dry" run every time I tweak something - for example, new filter, new airstones, new reservoir pump. All things I've had to address between grows, but made sure to test it empty first to see if problems would arise.

BTW - airstones just wore out (they seem to have a limited lifespan) and my own carelessness broke the pump (but it wasn't bad to replace). Filter seems to be good for a couple of grows before you need a new one. I went with a different model. But I have you as my "go to" guy when I want to upgrade ventilation next time (no, I'm not kidding lol)!!

Sorry to be responding late... a couple of bad days in there. Good habit those dry runs. Better early safe than late sorry.

Thanks for the tip on the airstones. Last week I read something about an all-glass airstone that can be sterilized and never wears out or clogs. Based on the material and porosity it made sense to me. When I find it again I'll send it your way fyi. I'm your vent guy you ever need it man!

 

[WeednFeed]

Not too much change to report. I think things are going slowly. That comes as little surprise after the drying of the roots from the pump failure in cloning. They are living, but not robustly. This example is typical of the hardiest specimens...

...and this of the weaker:

They are still not on auto-watering as there is great disparity in root development. Some seem to be where I would have expected them and others surprisingly far behind. The latter may look ok from above, but have densely clustered roots that seem reluctant to grow down toward food. Small spikes in ph and keeping that tamed. Some roots have gone into the rez but dry toward the top. This suggests to me that more air bubbles are needed. I'm kicking the idea around of "T"ing in another pump... what harm can more air do.

As I let the mothers grow larger than normal, I am going to cull them tomorrow for cloning for insurance purposes in the event these fail to progress. My cutoff for a successful crop will be 9 plants. I'm going to be a good scout and be prepared. This time I believe it will just be the White Widow as the Euforia root at a much slower rate and I do need to simplify for success. Funny thing... the last round of cuttings took nearly twice as long to pop roots. Perhaps the PM and treatment for it? I dunno.

The backdraft damper is in and the back-flow of warm air to the carbon filter is now non-existant.

The diagram illustrates the function well. Allowing flow in only one direction while checking the other.
Ambient temps went down another 2 degrees as did the daytime internal temp. High of 73 in the room and 85 in the box... 68 for night. I can further tweak if needed by adjusting the heating/cooling vents to and from the room.

Here's a few from the rear of the box. Might give you a better idea of the how these are laid out. The area above the black horizontal seam is enclosed independently by glass from the grow chamber which has it's own intake and exhaust fans. That upper portion is cooled by the center intake fan and exhausted via fans to the attached ducts. The clear tubing is for Co2 hookup, which is automated.

 

[Xlr8]

Hey Weed!

Overall they look pretty good to me. Are there some dead or dark brown roots there? If so you should trim them off best you can - you could end up with root rot, "Pythium", if you're not carefully removing any dead roots. It was tough to tell in the pictures - but I didn't want you to end up pythium.

How do I identify and prevent Root Rot?

Progress in the beginning can be slow, but I usually start from seed so I'm not as knowledgable regarding clones. I wouldn't worry too much yet, though, from what I can see - they didn't look too bad to me. In a couple of weeks they should start really progressing I'd think.

I'd be auto-watering by now unless it's a bad idea due to difference with rockwool that I'm unfamiliar with... I don't use rockwool so I'm not sure how it compares to hydroton (what I'm using). Having said that, with my set-up I auto-water very early with pretty young seedlings and it works great (better!). I'd do it now if I were you, it seems to always boost growth for me. Just a thought.

I still think they look good!

 

[Xlr8]

Very nice info on the ducting and the back of the box, btw. Looks familiar except for the CO2 - are you planning on using that at some point during the grow - or not this time? Just curious.