Bassman59's 1st Grow - DWC/LED - Pray For Me!

[YardDog35]

Man that is some growth you have going on now Bass! They are going to explode. Good job overcoming the threat/worry of root rot. Just keep on rollin!

Have the four equal sized plant in the one tub been fim'd yet? They could stand to grow straight up to not crowd each other. No biggie if you already have just expect them to double in size during flower. Give them 36 hours of darkness before the 12/12 switch to speed up flower cycle and improve weight

 

[Bassman59]

Man that is some growth you have going on now Bass! They are going to explode. Good job overcoming the threat/worry of root rot. Just keep on rollin!

Have the four equal sized plant in the one tub been fim'd yet? They could stand to grow straight up to not crowd each other. No biggie if you already have just expect them to double in size during flower. Give them 36 hours of darkness before the 12/12 switch to speed up flower cycle and improve weight

ya I did fim them already. I kinda think I need them to quadruple they are so small! :

EDIT: Just added 1 gal of nutrient at full feed, will only bump my ppm a small amount from 2/3rds feed. But they are drinking a fair amount now!

ok kool thanks on that 36 hr note. I hadnt checked on that yet.

Couple quick questions to all-anyone:

When I am ready to flip the switch:

Res change before lights out for 36 hrs or after?

Flush first, plain ro or tap then off for 36? Change again with nutrient after 36 or wait days x?

I think y'all get my drift, what to do with water/nutes for the switch.

 

[Propa Gator]

Res change before lights out for 36 hrs or after?

Flush first, plain ro or tap then off for 36? Change again with nutrient after 36 or wait days x?

Just top with tap now, and turn off the light. They won't photosynthesis in the dark but they need to hydrate. Change to fresh mix when light's on.

IMO, you worry too much, but... They do look good

 

[Bassman59]

Just top with tap now, and turn off the light. They won't photosynthesis in the dark but they need to hydrate. Change to fresh mix when light's on.

IMO, you worry too much, but... They do look good

Thanks Propa.

Funny thing, in things that I know wtf I am doing, I am the least worry wort you've ever known. Been known as a "calmer" laid back type for years.

One more question (I should obviously have notes on this already), full bloom nutes or buildup to full after lights on and res change?

Thanks

 

[ShutUpDonny]

Hey man, worrying is just a more specialized form of caring! Kick some ass, Bass!

 

[YardDog35]

Thanks Propa.

Funny thing, in things that I know wtf I am doing, I am the least worry wort you've ever known. Been known as a "calmer" laid back type for years.

One more question (I should obviously have notes on this already), full bloom nutes or buildup to full after lights on and res change?

Thanks

50/50 mix of grow and bloom nutes for the first week or so. They like the N during the switch

 

[Propa Gator]

full bloom nutes or buildup to full after lights on and res change?

Myself and others have had success with ppms 600 to 13 or 1400+. I don't think that this part is critical. On my Blue Planet bottles it says to run the same light mix throughout (bloom): This, I think is correct.

Some add additives but I grow in coco, and get a bit of extra K from that.

Air, light, and enough water are the important bits, and your lush babies got it.
They say: "Thankyou, Daddy "

 

[Bassman59]

WOW! These plants are growing like wildfire now! Bigun picked up another 1/2-3/4", and the others are moving too. I think everything will be fine when I flip the switch and I'll get the growth I'm hoping for.

Edit: oh and stanky! They are starting to stink up the house. Getting my Ona gel tomorrow and starting my Ona bucket.

 

[Xlr8]

Hi Bassman - just read through your journal and looks like you're getting things dialed in. Nice job so far!

One thing that stood out to me that I don't think was discussed: Those duct fans are (supposedly) not super reliable or as effective. Do you have or need a filter (is smell a concern for where you live)? Eventually I would encourage you to get a true fan/filter set-up in there. When you do it, don't skimp on the size fan or filter -- Personally, I would do something like a 400cfm 6" fan, with a good "Phresh" filter or similar. You might be able to get by with a smaller fan since you are using LED lights, as I don't know what kind of heat they put off, but I'd still suggest a bit bigger just in case. You can always buy a $25 or so speed controller if it's overkill. If you're like me, money is always tight, but someday this would be a great upgrade. I'd hate to see that duct fan crap out on you and send your temps skyrocketing. Let me know if you want any further thoughts on this - just my 2 cents.

Also, as far as smell - if it's a concern, that sort of fan/filter will be necessary. Ona gel without it will just make it smell like a skunk shit on clean sheets. Ona is a secondary line of defense, and a good one, but it won't be sufficient to mask smell - even if you do a "odor bucket" dealie, in my opinion. I've seen several growers go down this path, and unless you have a fairly low odor strain, you're going to be stinking the joint up. If you think they stink now, wait until they start flowering. Expect that smell to go up 10 fold or more - no joke. Not to overemphasize this, but the smell will get crazy. Keep in mind that we get immune to the odor, too. I like to go for walks outside, and walk into my home like I've never been there and take a good whiff. Even with all my odor precautions, there are times where a discerning nose might pick up the odor.

Loving your journal though, and you're definitely on your way. You're clearly bright, and are reducing the learning curve significantly by journaling so well and making adjustments. You'll be growing like a rockstar in no time, I can tell.

Oh, lastly - and I know this has been mentioned, but make sure you don't stress too much about stuff. In hydro, as long as the new growth looks good, and your roots are healthy, no worries. Looks like you've been addressing the roots, but keep a close eye on them. Propa is right on about this - and the biggest killer of plants from new grower, bar none, is too much love or intervention. Keep it simple, and don't stress.

+rep for a good start, and a good journal. Keep rockin it brotha!

 

[Bassman59]

Thank you so much Xlr8, and welcome to the journal.

Yea I can't afford a filter atm. So ona bucket it is. Maybe next grow I can look into that though. Thanks for mentioning reliability on the duct fan. I may pick up another anyways as intake for $26 from lowes to move more air. So it could act as a backup too. Moving more air in/out is good.

But for now, ona bucket is going to have to do for smell. I read they do quite well in tulips dwc journal iirc.

And ya I think I have been overly paranoid not wanting to screw up.

Just looked in and they are looking grrrreat as Tony the tiger says. Have to run out so no time now, but looks like they grew a fair pc overnight and may need another gal of water. I added 1 gal last night and new it didnt fully top up.

gotta run

 

[Bassman59]

Ok, got home, took a look in on plants. They are looking goot! The bigun is 9" tall and has grown at least 2" the last few days. The plants in tub #2 are starting to move up and out a bit.

I'm going to hold off on pics till tomorrow or later, but it's pretty smexy if I may say so myself. I'm thinking the bigun will hit 12" this week. If so I'll flip the switch for sure. Regardless of the height of others. I'm just trying to buy a little more stretch for the others before I flip.

 

[4twenty4all]

Hey Bassman, quick question.... When you fill your res do you add the part A first and stir very well and let it sit for a few before adding part B? Also, I'm sure you are, but are you waiting about 15 minutes after fully mixing your nutes one at a time before testing PH? I found it helps to do this process and I usually have only the first two, sometimes three days of slight PH rise, then it stabilizes. For hydro I kept mine between 5.6 - 5.9 and things were good. Looking good by the way, but some of the leaves look slightly rigid to me which is why I'm asking your process of mixing your nutes.

 

[Bassman59]

Thanks for asking 4twenty,

I PH my ro water, let it sit for 10 mins or more. Then I add each nutrient one at a time to the water. I dont wait between nutes. I wasnt aware I should. After all are mixed in (usually 5 gal water jug), I wait a bit then ph test again to make sure it's in line.

Should I be waiting between each nute?

I spoke to the folks at AN recently, after it was suggested to me to switch from the dry SH nutes because of the swings I had. They only told me to ph adjust before adding and that the neutral ph of these nutes would keep it within range most of the time. Sure some swings up but also it can go down after an upswing, which I have seen.

**btw they have some nutes with a "ph perfect" tag. These are not in the USA as yet. So dont be mis-lead I dont want to get it wrong, but iirc, they are working on getting the same lines we use now, that in canadian version are "ph perfect", cleared for USA. ***Again, I dont recall exactly what he said but you get the idea.

The last week or so I have let it go above 6.1 even to 6.5 just because of the earlier mag deficiency I wanted to allow plenty of mag and the best uptake for mg is 6.1+ from what I have read. So I'm kinda letting it catch up some times. Thats not to say I dont bring it down to 5.5 area. I just let it be a little higher this week before bringing it down.

 

[Bassman59]

TY Blue, and welcome to 420mag and my journal!

Had I not nuked the 1st seedlings, we'd certainly have a pretty bushy grow going by now. With 6 of the plants two weeks behind the bigun, it'll be hard to say what a good yield should be. I'll try to keep track of just the bigun though as that's what we would have hoped for all of them.

Take all you can in here at 420mag. There's a lot of experience on site willing to freely help out.

 

[Xlr8]

Hi Bassman -

This is just my own thoughts/opinion, but it works for me: I don't think you should bother adjusting the PH in your RO water before adding nutes - in fact that's actually a really difficult thing to do in the sense of the PH up/down has nothing in the water to bond to. (Personally, I don't wait 15 minutes between adding part a and part b, but that may be a very good thing to do as 4twenty4all mentioned). However, I do thoroughly mix between each thing I add and let it all sit after mixing before I adjust PH.

As far as adjusting PH - you are over-thinking the mag issue in my opinion, and I would encourage you to take the following approach to adjusting PH as it's never once let me down yet:

After mixing up your nutes and letting it rest for 10-15 (honestly I don't always wait - hasn't been a problem), adjust your PH to roughly 5.5. If you get to 5.6 or 5.7, don't keep adjusting to 5.5 -- it's just not that critical, and you don't want to shoot past it and have to PH back up. Just think of 5.5 as your target and get it close to there if you can (again, within a point or two).

Over the course of a week or so it will typically rise. Let it get to about 6.1 or 6.2, then adjust back down to that 5.5 range again. The idea is to let it gradually rise through the range until adjusting again.

I find with my nutrients that there are phases during bloom where the PH will stay pretty steady, and can even go down some instead of up. No worries, just PH up instead of down. In that situation I typically don't set it high with the hopes of going down, I just shoot for a middle number like 5.8 and adjust if it gets below 5.5 or above 6.1. It's MUCH more common for your nutrient solution to rise in PH over the course of a week.

Keep it that simple, always, and you shouldn't have to ever worry more about it. As interesting and valuable as that chart is, you'll be much better off taking the approach I'm recommending then trying to cater toward a deficiency, especially at this stage of your growing experience. At least that's what's always worked for me...

Sorry for being so wordy, but I hope this helps some!

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hi Bassman -

This is just my own thoughts/opinion, but it works for me: I don't think you should bother adjusting the PH in your RO water before adding nutes - in fact that's actually a really difficult thing to do in the sense of the PH up/down has nothing in the water to bond to. (Personally, I don't wait 15 minutes between adding part a and part b, but that may be a very good thing to do as 4twenty4all mentioned). However, I do thoroughly mix between each thing I add and let it all sit after mixing before I adjust PH.

As far as adjusting PH - you are over-thinking the mag issue in my opinion, and I would encourage you to take the following approach to adjusting PH as it's never once let me down yet:

After mixing up your nutes and letting it rest for 10-15 (honestly I don't always wait - hasn't been a problem), adjust your PH to roughly 5.5. If you get to 5.6 or 5.7, don't keep adjusting to 5.5 -- it's just not that critical, and you don't want to shoot past it and have to PH back up. Just think of 5.5 as your target and get it close to there if you can (again, within a point or two).

Over the course of a week or so it will typically rise. Let it get to about 6.1 or 6.2, then adjust back down to that 5.5 range again. The idea is to let it gradually rise through the range until adjusting again.

I find with my nutrients that there are phases during bloom where the PH will stay pretty steady, and can even go down some instead of up. No worries, just PH up instead of down. In that situation I typically don't set it high with the hopes of going down, I just shoot for a middle number like 5.8 and adjust if it gets below 5.5 or above 6.1. It's MUCH more common for your nutrient solution to rise in PH over the course of a week.

Keep it that simple, always, and you shouldn't have to ever worry more about it. As interesting and valuable as that chart is, you'll be much better off taking the approach I'm recommending then trying to cater toward a deficiency, especially at this stage of your growing experience. At least that's what's always worked for me...

Sorry for being so wordy, but I hope this helps some!

Great advice, XLR8! And, because I could +REP you again, you got 'em!

 

[Bassman59]

Hi Bassman -

This is just my own thoughts/opinion, but it works for me: I don't think you should bother adjusting the PH in your RO water before adding nutes - in fact that's actually a really difficult thing to do in the sense of the PH up/down has nothing in the water to bond to. (Personally, I don't wait 15 minutes between adding part a and part b, but that may be a very good thing to do as 4twenty4all mentioned). However, I do thoroughly mix between each thing I add and let it all sit after mixing before I adjust PH.

As far as adjusting PH - you are over-thinking the mag issue in my opinion, and I would encourage you to take the following approach to adjusting PH as it's never once let me down yet:

After mixing up your nutes and letting it rest for 10-15 (honestly I don't always wait - hasn't been a problem), adjust your PH to roughly 5.5. If you get to 5.6 or 5.7, don't keep adjusting to 5.5 -- it's just not that critical, and you don't want to shoot past it and have to PH back up. Just think of 5.5 as your target and get it close to there if you can (again, within a point or two).

Over the course of a week or so it will typically rise. Let it get to about 6.1 or 6.2, then adjust back down to that 5.5 range again. The idea is to let it gradually rise through the range until adjusting again.

I find with my nutrients that there are phases during bloom where the PH will stay pretty steady, and can even go down some instead of up. No worries, just PH up instead of down. In that situation I typically don't set it high with the hopes of going down, I just shoot for a middle number like 5.8 and adjust if it gets below 5.5 or above 6.1. It's MUCH more common for your nutrient solution to rise in PH over the course of a week.

Keep it that simple, always, and you shouldn't have to ever worry more about it. As interesting and valuable as that chart is, you'll be much better off taking the approach I'm recommending then trying to cater toward a deficiency, especially at this stage of your growing experience. At least that's what's always worked for me...

Sorry for being so wordy, but I hope this helps some!

Thanks Xlr8,

I adjust before added the nutes because that's what AN told me to do. I've pretty much got it working good doing it this way. I did in fact adjust after adding and found it took more to get down. It appears as though this nutrient mix is fairly neutral and buffers ph pretty good in the area you have it at when added. Hell I dunno. But it's stayed much more stable doing it this way.

I only let it run a lil higher before making adjustments this last week just to give a lil more mag peak uptake after the shortage previously. Nothing huge.

I always let the nutes sit for 15min or more and re-test the ph to make sure it's in line before adding to the res. Off hand, since doing it this way I don't think I've had to readjust.

Just peaked in on the babes. gonna go take some nice pics. Growth is getting spunky.

 

[Bassman59]

These girls are doing pretty decent.

This morning numbers:

PH 5.9
PPM 948
RH 38 **so hard to keep up in this desert climate** Gotta do better next grow
Temp 81
Res temp 67

The main plant is now just touching 9" tall at it's highest point. If you can find the stalk in the 1st pic you're my hero. It's just so bushy! I looked around a bit and see a number of nice potential clone spots. I also outlined one leaf with discoloration. It's the only one. There are a few with just a tad of tips brown. Possibly nute burn from too much foliar spraying. I wont be doing any more of that this week for sure. And to thin the mix a little when I added back a gallon this morning I made it just straight RO water.

The plants in tub #2 have grown substantially since I moved the light more over them and lowered that end of the light a couple inches as well. I also rotated tub holes on those plants about 36 hrs ago so the shortest would be closest to the cfl in the corner too. Some of these plants still have discolored leaves from the previous problems I presume. Possibly also from the foliar spray or maybe from me having poured nutrient water from the tubs directly over the root riot cubes 4 times daily since the last res change. The good part is doing this, the roots seemed to like it and grew substantially.

I took a look in on the roots in tub #1 and man do they look GREAT! This is the tub with the main plant and the one that I had been so paranoid about before.


This will probably be the next to last pics before I flip the switch and 36 hrs of darkness. I'll probably hit the switch between Fri-Sun some time. I'm thinking I'll plan lights on between 9am-9pm.

Tub #1

Noticed highlighted area, any concerns?

Main plant from above: She will have 4 main colas for sure.

Tub #2

 

[Bassman59]

Lights OFF baby!

Well, I made it this far. I just flipped the switch for 36 hrs dark.

**I'll post my thoughts on things I've learned during this portion of my grow after this posting.

I took 8 clones. 7 from bigun and 1 from another. I clipped the wings on all the clones, cut off nodes below top, scraped bottom portion of stalk, dipped in clonex, and placed in root riot cubes with 5.9 ph RO water. Poured some water in the tray, dropped two cfl's with 2 23w lights each over them and sprayed the dome and covered.

The main plant is just over 11" tall and is getting horny (yes female horny).

I also moved the plants in the tubs a little bit. There was just no point in having one tub overgrown while the other is thin. So I placed the 2nd largest in tub #2 and brought the smallest over to tub 1.

I added about a 1/2 gal of plain RO water also. That makes about 2.5 gals used this week.

Plan is to make up 50/50 bloom/veg full dose nutes Saturday morning, drain/clean and replenish about 9am. Then it's 12/12, lights on 9am to 9pm.

These pics are before making cuttings. I didnt get very good shots of pre-flower calyx's but you can see some thick stalk and plenty of bush. After lights on I'll take pics of trimmed plant.

Bigun

Tub #1 pre-rotation: Little crowded?

Inside Bigun

Rotated tubs:

2nd biggest: Notice stalk size and open front from crowding

 

[Bassman59]

So, what have I learned?

1. Dont get paranoid! MJ is a sturdy plant. If there is a problem, there's probably a simple cure. Relax.

2. Res temps are crucial! Keep em low and your plants will thank you and not develop problems, disease, etc. Under 68f is ideal.

3. Hydrogen Peroxide (h202) makes foamy bubbles! There's nothing wrong, it's cleaning like it should and suds will go away in time.

4. I like hygrozyme!

5. RO water NEEDS Cal-Mag. If there's mag deficiency, add epsom salts, foliar spray with a epsom salts water mix until Mag uptake is fixed. Nutrients do not add enough cal-mag to make up for the zero cal-mag in RO water. A short burst of ph at 6.1-6.5 during call-mag addition after a deficiency ensures best Mag uptake.

6. Don't worry about PH getting slightly high from optimal. It's normal and doesnt need constant adjustment of .2-.6 ph. Chances are it will fluctuate down some anyways. Wait till it gets more outta line before adjusting.

7. SH nutes in the Bubleponics (miss spelled for reason) kits do not like RO water and will be the demons of massive ph swings. I like the AN Sensi Grow A & B and B52, and Voodoo juice. PH swings were minimal with these nutrients.

8. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Every res change (once per week) clean the bejeebus out of EVERYTHING! Replace air lines. Flush well, clean again! Take filters out of water pumps and clean them well! Soak in h202 while cleaning other parts. Add an external filter bag to water pumps.

9. Preparing nutrient mix before draining means plants will be out of water for less time. Plants love the huge oxygen shot they get out of the water, but if they'll be out more than 20 mins or so have a ph correct plain water foliar spray at hand and spray the hell out of the roots. Good time to wipe down netpots exterior too.

10. Record your data. Check PH 2 times daily MINIMUM. Record PPM, PH, Res temp. Recording height is optional. Make notes of res changes and any other findings.

11. Don't over soak beans when transplanted! The cubes only need a trickle! This no doubt reduced my yield 50% from placing me two weeks behind to get new seeds and re-germinate.

12. GrowStealth LED lights rock! Dont be afraid to lower the lights a bit! I firmly believe I actually was too high to get the shorter, later plants to stretch. When I moved the light more over them and lowered that end of light they started to move more.

13. Humidty is an issue in my dry ass climate. I need to get more humidty. These plants like much more humidity than I gave them.

14. ASK FOR HELP! Probably the most important thing of all. Don't be a know it all. Do your research first, THEN ask questions. If I research my "issue" first I will be more familiar with what people are talking about. Ask those that have been there before me. Stay humble.

Ok, there may have been more that I learned, but these things are what come to mind. We're only 1/2 way through the process, and roughly 1/3rd of the grow duration. I'm sure I'll learn more. Hell I may even learn how to take close ups!

Thanks to all thus far for your guidance.