Ase's Multi-Strain Quadlining In Coco

Always awesome starting new seeds! I just put some into dirt myself so hopefully a few days will tell who wants a chance at this life!
Your girls are lookin super lush and healthy, and looks like training has already begun as far as topping goes!
 
Coloradokid19 said:
Always awesome starting new seeds! I just put some into dirt myself so hopefully a few days will tell who wants a chance at this life!
Your girls are lookin super lush and healthy, and looks like training has already begun as far as topping goes!
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Yessir. I’ll be in the Denver airport in about 5 hours flying home from the MLS Cup finals! Hope all is well CK!
 
Safe travels Ase !:passitleft:
 
Asesino85 said:
Yessir. I’ll be in the Denver airport in about 5 hours flying home from the MLS Cup finals! Hope all is well CK!
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I’ll have to catch ya next time you’re in town! I bet the finals were awesome!
 
Coloradokid19 said:
I’ll have to catch ya next time you’re in town! I bet the finals were awesome!
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Incredible for sure. If I ever get a longer layover I’ll let you know but likely I’ll just drive out that way this summer or next!
 
Van Stank said:
Northern Lights is a great night time smoke. I am going to do a female cross of my NL and Hindu Kush. I generally smoke a 50/50 bowl of those two most nights before bed. I figure its only logical to try a cross of those two. Might have a nice indica for you to try when I get this done!
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VS, if there’s some way you could get this into Canada, I would definitely grow it. I love Hindu Kush, it’s pretty much the prototype of what I look for in my evening indica.
 
I hope you don’t take my comments as criticism because obviously you have had great success with your grows as your photos and legions of followers attest to so I hope you see my questions not as reproaches but instead an effort to understand my best path forward for my grows.

I have to admit the complexity of your growing schedule has me perplexed. Not how it is calculated and mixed but instead how you came up with the schedule itself and all the subtle variations week to week in your N-P-k and PPM suggestions? I read that you have only been growing a few years with not that many grows under your belt so I don’t understand how you came up with this intricate schedule because I would think it would take hundreds of experiments using a standard compared against almost infinite variables to derive the values you have?

I read that you are skeptical of companies self-serving suggestions and I share your skepticism of businesses in general to give advice that serves their bottom lines more than their customers’ needs but bearing that in mind this is what Mega Crop says on their website about why a person can use one mixture for their whole grow: “Plants take up what they need, so during different phases of growth, the plant will search for what it needs and uptake it from the soil or nutrient solution. As long as you are providing in sufficient quantities, the plant will have optimum growth uninterrupted. This is the same concept that organic outdoor growers will use to get fantastic results, at the beginning of the season they do their “soil mix” which has everything that the plant will need for its whole life-cycle, from start to finish. Through the plants life, it takes what it needs from the soil mix, and as long as everything is in sufficient quantities, it will have optimum growth”.

I think the point I am getting at is that I am currently in the early stages of flowering of my first grow in over 20 years and of course I would like the best results I can achieve but your system just seems like a massive undertaking and would entail a considerable financial outlay so I just wonder with your intricate system how much more bud do you think you would be producing than someone that used a one mixture system through the whole grow like Mega Crop?
 
Jgrowlove said:
I've used only mega crop on my hempy grow and have seen great results from my first couple of harvests. I was gifted it from sweetsue and it's been a breeze so far.
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Thank you Jgrowlove for the info. Mr Sauga, who have been very generous with advising me, first suggested mega crop and swears by it but then I read about complicated systems like Asesino’s and I wonder if I am missing the point so I am encouraged to read that SweetSue gifted it to you because I know she is a real icon out here. Your comment was much appreciated.
 
When I started asking Ase about NPK ratios and PPM I was encouraged to just follow the manufacturers recommended schedule except at half strength. But I was using soil and a different line. His information came from meticulous measuring and note taking in the beginning of his grows using this specific nutrient line. Since using something else I’m sure he would advise the same for you Homer. Megacrop makes a good product that I’ve seen several people use successfully on this forum. I’m sure if the plants are taking up nutrients as needed then they are probably eating close to what Ase’s schedule provides since he seems to have it dialed in for this nute line.
I know this is your first grow with megacrop so this question is for you and others that may have used it...and this may just highlight my ignorance LOL... let’s take Nitrogen for example....if you feed a plant just the right amount of nitrogen you get a lush green healthy looking leaf. A deficiency will fade to yellow on lower leaves. A toxicity will darken the leaves and lead to clawing. So this just seems to me like the plant will take whatever you give it even if it’s too much. So how does a product like megacrop provide all the nitrogen needs throughout the life of the plant without burning it? That may not make sense the way I wrote it. Lol. But I’ve been wondering about that.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
When I started asking Ase about NPK ratios and PPM I was encouraged to just follow the manufacturers recommended schedule except at half strength. But I was using soil and a different line. His information came from meticulous measuring and note taking in the beginning of his grows using this specific nutrient line. Since using something else I’m sure he would advise the same for you Homer. Megacrop makes a good product that I’ve seen several people use successfully on this forum. I’m sure if the plants are taking up nutrients as needed then they are probably eating close to what Ase’s schedule provides since he seems to have it dialed in for this nute line.
I know this is your first grow with megacrop so this question is for you and others that may have used it...and this may just highlight my ignorance LOL... let’s take Nitrogen for example....if you feed a plant just the right amount of nitrogen you get a lush green healthy looking leaf. A deficiency will fade to yellow on lower leaves. A toxicity will darken the leaves and lead to clawing. So this just seems to me like the plant will take whatever you give it even if it’s too much. So how does a product like megacrop provide all the nitrogen needs throughout the life of the plant without burning it? That may not make sense the way I wrote it. Lol. But I’ve been wondering about that.
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I think your point about nitrogen is well-written and really got right to the core of the one nutrient dilemma because it does seem like a paradox. If a plant can just take up what it needs when it needs it during different phases of growth like Mega Crop’s website claims then why do plants burn from being over fertilized? Good point.

And I want to emphasize that I give Asesino a lot of credit for the plants he is producing and for his groundbreaking work with quadining because the only way to improve things is to experiment and obviously he is an admirable avid experimenter.

Obviously, everyone wants the biggest most potent buds they can get but in the real world, there is a cost both financial and timewise and I am really trying to get to the bottom of if these very involved intricate feeding systems are worth it so I wonder what kinds of increased yields are people getting with them as opposed to a Mega Crop kind of single supplement?
 
Hey Ase hope you'd had a good flight home. I got a question, what do I do with the branches that are growing from node 4. They're getting quite long, do I bend them down or let them keep growing as is?

IMG_20181211_121554.jpg
 
Stirstick said:
Hey Ase hope you'd had a good flight home. I got a question, what do I do with the branches that are growing from node 4. They're getting quite long, do I bend them down or let them keep growing as is?

IMG_20181211_121554.jpg
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They should be tied down. You just have the fan leaves tied down right now. I would move the ties to the near the end of branches on node 4 to bring them down flat. You want to allow your node 3 growths to catch up and make a flat canopy.

EDIT: once your node 3 growth catches up to the 4th node tops after being spread you want to continue tying them down and out to the edges of the pot. Once to the edge you allow them to go vertical and then flip.

Be careful when pulling them down and getting the ties in you don’t want to snap or break near the main stalk.

I’m a beginner to quadline myself so I hope this is all correct ! if I’m wrong please allow someone to correct me !
 
Dutchman1990 said:
They should be tied down. You just have the fan leaves tied down right now. I would move the ties to the near the end of branches on node 4 to bring them down flat. You want to allow your node 3 growths to catch up and make a flat canopy.

EDIT: once your node 3 growth catches up to the 4th node tops after being spread you want to continue tying them down and out to the edges of the pot. Once to the edge you allow them to go vertical and then flip.

Be careful when pulling them down and getting the ties in you don’t want to snap or break near the main stalk.

I’m a beginner to quadline myself so I hope this is all correct ! if I’m wrong please allow someone to correct me !
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Dead on, Dutch!
 
Stirstick, I’d give them a tiny bit more slack on the pipe cleaners. You want the branches angled up slightly, not quite horizontal. But otherwise you have it. Move the pipe cleaners as the branches grow to keep growing them out to the side.

You’ll want to get pipe cleaners onto the other node as well, the node formerly known as node 3. Same idea, you want the branches out to the side. It’s these branches, and not the fan leaves themselves, that form the “x” of your quad line.
 
Homer Simpson said:
I hope you don’t take my comments as criticism because obviously you have had great success with your grows as your photos and legions of followers attest to so I hope you see my questions not as reproaches but instead an effort to understand my best path forward for my grows.

I have to admit the complexity of your growing schedule has me perplexed. Not how it is calculated and mixed but instead how you came up with the schedule itself and all the subtle variations week to week in your N-P-k and PPM suggestions? I read that you have only been growing a few years with not that many grows under your belt so I don’t understand how you came up with this intricate schedule because I would think it would take hundreds of experiments using a standard compared against almost infinite variables to derive the values you have?

I read that you are skeptical of companies self-serving suggestions and I share your skepticism of businesses in general to give advice that serves their bottom lines more than their customers’ needs but bearing that in mind this is what Mega Crop says on their website about why a person can use one mixture for their whole grow: “Plants take up what they need, so during different phases of growth, the plant will search for what it needs and uptake it from the soil or nutrient solution. As long as you are providing in sufficient quantities, the plant will have optimum growth uninterrupted. This is the same concept that organic outdoor growers will use to get fantastic results, at the beginning of the season they do their “soil mix” which has everything that the plant will need for its whole life-cycle, from start to finish. Through the plants life, it takes what it needs from the soil mix, and as long as everything is in sufficient quantities, it will have optimum growth”.

I think the point I am getting at is that I am currently in the early stages of flowering of my first grow in over 20 years and of course I would like the best results I can achieve but your system just seems like a massive undertaking and would entail a considerable financial outlay so I just wonder with your intricate system how much more bud do you think you would be producing than someone that used a one mixture system through the whole grow like Mega Crop?
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Absolutely no offense taken, I am not that kind of person. You are obviously coming at this as wanting to learn and not trying to "bash" my schedule so no worries at all. I applaud you for sticking your neck out there and asking.

I will say this, I have only been growing for a few years now but I've probably got about 20 grows completed. My first grow was soil and then I switched to coco and have gone that way ever since. Because coco is hydro, you need to know about nutrients like in DWC or anything that requires reservoir changes. When I did research on it a few years back I came across a Youtube series that I can't find anymore from a guy who owns a hydro shop. He compared a few of the lines to each other and the conclusion was that they all had the same ingredients in them, they just had different amounts. Basically the only difference was marketing and if you know how to calculate N-P-K then you can indeed use different products from different lines.

I had 2 things influence coming up with the N-P-K values on a weekly basis. The first was from a different forum where a guy who was an agricultural major (I dunno the specific major but he majored in growing normal plants). He had turned to growing weed and used a lot of the same concepts that he learned when growing normal farm crops. He then made a schedule and it just made sense to me, although it only changed the N-P-K values once every 3 weeks. The 2nd thing I did was to take a couple different manufacturers recommended schedules and to average out what the N-P-K was by week since most of them have weekly changes. When I used this new schedule I came up with my plants yielded nearly double and I've just stuck with it ever since. Call it lightning in a bottle but I feel like my plants are almost always looking healthy in terms of the way the leaves look. I'm not saying it couldn't be a better schedule but it works for me and a couple people here use it and have increases in their yield. It's a small sample size but so far it's been all improvements for people that were just following the bottle or something basic like the Lucas Formula.

In the last couple years a lot of products have come out and I don't know enough about them. I also don't have the time to research them all out and I'm pretty stuck in my ways. I still very much believe that plants should get boosts at certain points in the lifecycle and they should happen on a weekly basis and not a monthly basis. Magoo already made a good point about nutrient burn and all that so I don't need to reiterate what he said but he took the words out of my mouth. If it isn't causing burn then you are also likely wasting nutrients because why give plants nutrients when they don't need them? Often times this will cause salt buildups and those salt buildups can cause roots to burn unless you flush the plant. I almost never have to flush my plants unless I let them get too dry and that can cause salt buildup as well.

The last thing I'd like to say is there is kind of a reason I decided to stop preaching about nutrients. In prior journals I talk a lot more about them but really this is a good schedule for General Hydroponics 3 part series in coco. That's all I can really vouch for. I think other people have had success manipulating the nutrients lines they use but really there could be a number of factors on why a grow is better and it's hard to attribute that only to manipulating a nutrient schedule. My schedule has just worked for me and when I change nutrients lines then I will have something better to compare to but it's tough to change when I keep having pretty successful grows. That's why I am backing away from pushing the whole nutrient schedule thing now in this journal in this new chapter.

Quadlining is what has benefited people the most and there is too many things I don't know about other nutrient lines to be a fair advocate for telling people to follow my PPM and N-P-K ratios with those lines. I did a lot of research on it initially and once I put it together and had much improved success I really just went with that and haven't looked back since. At the time I remembered the science of it all much better and I did tweak the schedule about 10 different times before I really finalized that one but it's more work than I've got time for to dive back into that. With nutrients I've gone the "If it isn't broke then don't fix it" route as nutrients really aren't even in my top 3 most important things. You can give plants a basic schedule and have great success and you can give it a more detailed schedule and have great success and maybe the only difference will be wasting less nutrients or no burn vs just a little burn. This is why I tell people to just keep the N-P-K changes in mind and see where I boost things and mainly just follow the bottles recommendations. If you do that and just adjust the bottles recommendations a tiny bit I bet mine and theirs are mainly similar. I just feel like mine wastes less and gives the plants what they need in the ratios they need it the whole time. Rookie growers really should just do what the bottle says for a grow and then try some different boosts on the next grow and see if you notice a difference, but I bet you will. Sorry that's probably not a good enough answer but it's really all I have for ya.
 
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