An excellent tutorial on training so far.
Ase's Multi-Strain Quadlining In Coco
- Thread starter Asesino85
- Start date
JustMeds
Well-Known Member
Them gals there don't look like they are wanting for anything, they look great. This journal is always a great stop to learn.
DobeWan
Well-Known Member
Looking good Ase. Always good for someone like me to get a bit of a refresher. Looks like it’s lining up to be by the book after all. So much for 2 DTF ladies taking over the tent.
- Thread starter
- #1,244
The "X" and Removing the First Under-node
I know I already posted an update today but think of that as yesterday. Today I decided to put the DTF #1 (suspected female) in a 3 gallon pot. The DTF #2 is now in the garbage. I hesitated doing this and thought of just throwing it in my other tent and letting it go 12/12 just to make sure but I am going with my gut and once I did it I knew it was the right move. It was a boy and it needed to go. So now I should have all girls left and it's the exact amount of plants I wanted.
Since all the plants had fresh growth and bounced back really well, I decided to do more training. The Under-node on the quadline was big enough to remove now so I went ahead and did that. What is the Under-node you say? It is the node that just never gets enough light to amount to anything so I remove it early on not to waste energy to it. It is caused by pulling the branch down horizontally which is unnatural for the plant to grow that way so one node ends up pointing at the soil.
First off this is one of the branches I was pulling down further to keep training the plant until we are at the edge of the pot.
You can see when you pull it down there is a node on the underside that is pretty blocked. As the plant fills in quickly it tends to just never get any late and I've found that this node never amounts to anything at all. I get rid of it when it is big enough and remove the fan leaf that was attached to the node as well.
Node removed now.
Pulled down.
I also remove the fan leaf that is attached to the other side of the node as well so all that is left is one node on the top side. That way this node gets a chance at some good light for a few days, otherwise that leaf will block the light and sometimes it amounts to nothing as well.
The famous "X". This is a defining moment for the quadline when you've trained them and you see the structure really start to take shape. Soon I will transplant the Tangerine Dream in the middle into a 7 gallon fabric pot and I will get it into it's new tent by itself. The DTF is back left. Double Berry is top right. Girl Scout Cookie is the Tri-line in the bottom right and Purple Trainwreck is in the bottom left. All of the plants had the same exact things done to them tonight. They were all ready.
I know I already posted an update today but think of that as yesterday. Today I decided to put the DTF #1 (suspected female) in a 3 gallon pot. The DTF #2 is now in the garbage. I hesitated doing this and thought of just throwing it in my other tent and letting it go 12/12 just to make sure but I am going with my gut and once I did it I knew it was the right move. It was a boy and it needed to go. So now I should have all girls left and it's the exact amount of plants I wanted.
Since all the plants had fresh growth and bounced back really well, I decided to do more training. The Under-node on the quadline was big enough to remove now so I went ahead and did that. What is the Under-node you say? It is the node that just never gets enough light to amount to anything so I remove it early on not to waste energy to it. It is caused by pulling the branch down horizontally which is unnatural for the plant to grow that way so one node ends up pointing at the soil.
First off this is one of the branches I was pulling down further to keep training the plant until we are at the edge of the pot.
Stirstick
Well-Known Member
Ok so under nodes next! Your timing is awesome Ase!
The "X" and Removing the First Under-node
I know I already posted an update today but think of that as yesterday. Today I decided to put the DTF #1 (suspected female) in a 3 gallon pot. The DTF #2 is now in the garbage. I hesitated doing this and thought of just throwing it in my other tent and letting it go 12/12 just to make sure but I am going with my gut and once I did it I knew it was the right move. It was a boy and it needed to go. So now I should have all girls left and it's the exact amount of plants I wanted.
Since all the plants had fresh growth and bounced back really well, I decided to do more training. The Under-node on the quadline was big enough to remove now so I went ahead and did that. What is the Under-node you say? It is the node that just never gets enough light to amount to anything so I remove it early on not to waste energy to it. It is caused by pulling the branch down horizontally which is unnatural for the plant to grow that way so one node ends up pointing at the soil.
First off this is one of the branches I was pulling down further to keep training the plant until we are at the edge of the pot.
You can see when you pull it down there is a node on the underside that is pretty blocked. As the plant fills in quickly it tends to just never get any late and I've found that this node never amounts to anything at all. I get rid of it when it is big enough and remove the fan leaf that was attached to the node as well.
Node removed now.
Pulled down.
I also remove the fan leaf that is attached to the other side of the node as well so all that is left is one node on the top side. That way this node gets a chance at some good light for a few days, otherwise that leaf will block the light and sometimes it amounts to nothing as well.
The famous "X". This is a defining moment for the quadline when you've trained them and you see the structure really start to take shape. Soon I will transplant the Tangerine Dream in the middle into a 7 gallon fabric pot and I will get it into it's new tent by itself. The DTF is back left. Double Berry is top right. Girl Scout Cookie is the Tri-line in the bottom right and Purple Trainwreck is in the bottom left. All of the plants had the same exact things done to them tonight. They were all ready.
Great continued tutorial on the quadline Ase! I’m right behind you on my critical+2.0 girls so I’m excited to get the true “X” pattern going! What do you plan on flowering your tangerine in? The 7Gal or will you transplant that again once more before flowering?
- Thread starter
- #1,247
7 Gallon is as big as I will go in coco. I almost did 5 gallon but at the last second decided to just go big as I am not in a rush to flip it.
Ah ok! Good to know. She will be a monster then and I can’t wait!
Stirstick
Well-Known Member
Hey Ase any idea if I did something wrong with the top, both of my B plants look like they have three branches coming out? Should I leave it and train 5 lines?
These two plants are from the same seeds, could it be a genetic thing?
These two plants are from the same seeds, could it be a genetic thing?
Heavenly Hybrid
Well-Known Member
Do you choose your pot size based on how big you’ll let it get? Or does it have to do with using coco? Both?
- Thread starter
- #1,251
Hey Ase any idea if I did something wrong with the top, both of my B plants look like they have three branches coming out? Should I leave it and train 5 lines?
These two plants are from the same seeds, could it be a genetic thing?
I'd guess it was genetic if both of them did it. It looks like one side is fine and the other topped itself. If it was just one plant i'd say it was just something crazy but the fact you have two is pretty cool. I'd give it a 90% genetics chance. I'd leave it and train 3 main branches on top and do 5. Just split it in't 5 even lines rather then 4.
I've had them self top before, I had multiple Starkiller plants do that on me. I chalked it up to genetics as well.
- Thread starter
- #1,253
3 Gallon is the perfect size in coco to get 4-6 oz plants if everything is done right. It's the easiest to water. I typically never go over 5 gallon as it just isn't necessary with coco but I've never done just one plant in a tent. I just thought if I normally do 4- 3 gallon pots in a grow, if I took that down to 2 plants I'd do them in a 5 gallon, and 1 plant in a 7 gallon. I might be right that 7 gallon is still overkill but if I went with 5 gallon and this single plant drinks a ton, I'd have to water maybe a few times a day which I just don't have time for.
To more directly answer your question. You could grow a flat out monster in a 3 gallon pot if you watered it multiple times a day. Pot size isn't as big of a deal in coco because it's hydro. To make up for pot size you can always water more and as long as the coco is always wet or damp then the plant is just gonna keep growing. 5 or 7 gallon just makes it a bit easier. To some degree the roots will grow a bit wider and support the plant better and be bigger but it isn't the deciding factor like it is with coco.
Heavenly Hybrid
Well-Known Member
Awesome! Thank you Ase!! I bought some 3 gal smart pots, but worried they’d be too small, so that is great to hear. 
I’d rather not water a bunch of times, but I’ll do whatever they end up needing I suppose.
I’d rather not water a bunch of times, but I’ll do whatever they end up needing I suppose.I agree. I have grown in 2 gallon, 5 gallon and 3 gallon. The 2's were a little small and dried out quicker. The difference between the 3's and the 5's wasn't enough to worry about.
- Thread starter
- #1,256
Continuation of Training and Systematic Defoliation
Finally I have a day at home so I was able to get some pictures that are current with the post. First off I just want to clear up the term that I used in my title, systematic defoliation. Systematic defoliation (to me) means that you do certain defoliations at certain times to gain a result from it. As the plants get bigger the defoliations become more of an educated guess and you are only removing fan leaves that block light or might be ramming into another part of the plant. When they ram into another part of the plant it can cause the leaf to have moisture build up on it in the spot where it is touching and may cause problems with mold. Light and airlfow are key to the quadline so I always encourage people to defoliate as needed. However, this is later on in the grow and is subjective based on how the plants have grown to that point in time.
Systematic defoliation is something that has to be done at a certain time to produce a desired outcome. Removing nodes 1 and 2 is systematic so it can send all the energy to 3 and 4 to build up those branches for structure. Topping also aids in this and that is why both are done pretty much back to back. Removal of the under-node causes the plant to only focus on the top node and not waste time on the node that will amount to nothing. Removal of fan leaves in groups of 4 makes sure the same thing is happening to all sides of the plant so everything is evenly spread out. It also allows new growth to get plenty of light so the fan leaves aren't blocking it early on and then it just stays small forever. There is a system or reason for why we do these things and the end results should show that.
Today I did another round of systematic defoliation. Once again 4 fan leaves were removed off each plant. The Girl Scout Cookies is a tri-line and I decided since nothing was being blocked that she didn't get a defoliation at all today but the other 4 girls all got the same thing done to them. I reset all the ties and now they are pretty close to the edge of the pot. This means I won't be able to train them any further out so I'll continue to adjust them little by little and then I will just have to let them do their thing until I am ready to flip them. In terms of quadlining, once you get to that point where you let them go you really are pretty much done training. All of this happens really fast so that is why I encourage people to really focus on doing things at the right times. You do a lot in a couple of weeks and it becomes super easy to have well structured plants that get great light and airflow from there on out.
The Tangerine Dream is now in it's new tent. I am so excited to do this and I will have to train her past the pot to get the results I want out her. I will likely have to get some rope of some sort and use my tent to tie her branches to. The pot won't be wide enough to just train with stakes and tomato wire. I may use the PVC pipe from my scrog net and just remove the string. Then I can attach it to the tent and then tie string from the plant to the PVC pipe to keep it opening up. I've got a little while to think about how I am going to do that. I've always said a quadline is a combo of a flux and a mainline but this will be trained a lot more like a flux. The nice part of quadlining is that you can adjust to what you need. It becomes an art form once you have the basic structure though and that is why the Tangerine Dream has gotten the same things done to it as the other plants. I will transplant her hopefully today into her 7 gallon pot and keep training her with stakes and tomato wire until I get to the edge of the pot. Then I will have to implement my idea above to keep training after that.
Before doing anything to the DTF#1. I didn't get a picture but I have multiple white hairs on this girl so female 100%. Such a relief this time to have a regular seed pretty much fit right in with all my others fems.
Spread her out.
Removed the 4 leaves in the middle. Next round of systematic defoliation will involve pulling 8 leaves. The 4 fan leaves that are low and in the middle (you can see them in the picture now that the 4 were plucked above them) and then I will take one leaf from each branch that points to the middle on the 4th node. Just the inside leaf as it will begin to block light to the node below it. After that systematic defoliation will be done and flip time won't be too far off of that.
All the girls. You can see a couple branches have a bit of a soft curve to them where they were held down with the ties before. I will usually try to push on the curve a bit to straighten them out but you have to be very careful when doing this not to cause a branch to break. Also you can easily cause branches to split at the main stem part if you aren't careful. You can also use some more stakes and ties to hold it down in multiple spots as well and that helps straighten that out. Either one is a very gentle process and really is more for aesthetics then anything. If you don't feel comfortable doing either of those, then don't. To my growing knowledge it doesn't help anything but I like my plants looking a certain way but it's all risk and little to no reward.
Finally I have a day at home so I was able to get some pictures that are current with the post. First off I just want to clear up the term that I used in my title, systematic defoliation. Systematic defoliation (to me) means that you do certain defoliations at certain times to gain a result from it. As the plants get bigger the defoliations become more of an educated guess and you are only removing fan leaves that block light or might be ramming into another part of the plant. When they ram into another part of the plant it can cause the leaf to have moisture build up on it in the spot where it is touching and may cause problems with mold. Light and airlfow are key to the quadline so I always encourage people to defoliate as needed. However, this is later on in the grow and is subjective based on how the plants have grown to that point in time.
Systematic defoliation is something that has to be done at a certain time to produce a desired outcome. Removing nodes 1 and 2 is systematic so it can send all the energy to 3 and 4 to build up those branches for structure. Topping also aids in this and that is why both are done pretty much back to back. Removal of the under-node causes the plant to only focus on the top node and not waste time on the node that will amount to nothing. Removal of fan leaves in groups of 4 makes sure the same thing is happening to all sides of the plant so everything is evenly spread out. It also allows new growth to get plenty of light so the fan leaves aren't blocking it early on and then it just stays small forever. There is a system or reason for why we do these things and the end results should show that.
Today I did another round of systematic defoliation. Once again 4 fan leaves were removed off each plant. The Girl Scout Cookies is a tri-line and I decided since nothing was being blocked that she didn't get a defoliation at all today but the other 4 girls all got the same thing done to them. I reset all the ties and now they are pretty close to the edge of the pot. This means I won't be able to train them any further out so I'll continue to adjust them little by little and then I will just have to let them do their thing until I am ready to flip them. In terms of quadlining, once you get to that point where you let them go you really are pretty much done training. All of this happens really fast so that is why I encourage people to really focus on doing things at the right times. You do a lot in a couple of weeks and it becomes super easy to have well structured plants that get great light and airflow from there on out.
The Tangerine Dream is now in it's new tent. I am so excited to do this and I will have to train her past the pot to get the results I want out her. I will likely have to get some rope of some sort and use my tent to tie her branches to. The pot won't be wide enough to just train with stakes and tomato wire. I may use the PVC pipe from my scrog net and just remove the string. Then I can attach it to the tent and then tie string from the plant to the PVC pipe to keep it opening up. I've got a little while to think about how I am going to do that. I've always said a quadline is a combo of a flux and a mainline but this will be trained a lot more like a flux. The nice part of quadlining is that you can adjust to what you need. It becomes an art form once you have the basic structure though and that is why the Tangerine Dream has gotten the same things done to it as the other plants. I will transplant her hopefully today into her 7 gallon pot and keep training her with stakes and tomato wire until I get to the edge of the pot. Then I will have to implement my idea above to keep training after that.
Before doing anything to the DTF#1. I didn't get a picture but I have multiple white hairs on this girl so female 100%. Such a relief this time to have a regular seed pretty much fit right in with all my others fems.
Looking great as usual!
JustMeds
Well-Known Member
Ase,
This is so good if you could put a link to the first post about the start of the training. I think that would help many, including me.
This is so good if you could put a link to the first post about the start of the training. I think that would help many, including me.
Awesome start Ase and the tangerine in her own tent is going to really be a killer plant! My critical+2.0 girls will be getting their top nodes tied down tomorrow. They are just long enough to get the ties around comfortably to spread them nicely.
Great write up on systematic defoliation and something great to take note of!
Hope your well my man and prepared for the holidays!
Great write up on systematic defoliation and something great to take note of!
Hope your well my man and prepared for the holidays!