Aberration Goes Ker Bloom! - Perpetual

[Aberration]

Speaking of males...

I was looking at the non-feminized Qleaner plants QLR.0A and QLR.0B this evening and look what I saw... this is in veg under 24hr light with no particular reasons to stress. Here's QLR.0A:

And here's QLR.0B:

 

[Aberration]

There was always a 25% chance those Qleaner plants were both male of course. I have 2 more seeds. The odds of all four being male is only 6.25%, so I'm willing to take the perspective that there is a 93.75% chance one of the remaining two will be a female, even though I know each has a 50/50 chance.

I removed QLR.0A and QLR.0B for being male.

==> Mature Veg:

SLH.1D : 0.25 gal ea
L.6A, L.6D

BD.7C, BD.7J : water to saturation
CH.1A, CH.1B

-Mix (2) gallons
-Per gallon:
1 T Pure Blend Pro Grow
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
--- t Big Foot (ord)
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 880 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.24 @ 19.7 C
1/2 t Companion

==> Early Veg:

TDR.2C : water to saturation
BBX.5A, BBX.5B
MTP.4A, MTP.4D
SLH.2B, SLH.2E

-Mix (1) gallon
-Per gallon:
1 t Pure Blend Pro Grow
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
--- t Big Foot (ord)
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 500 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.10 @ 19.7 C
1/2 t Companion

 

[MSquared]

Hey Abe!
Those were some really developed pollen sacks! Good thing you caught them in time
I agree with your take on fem seeds! Remember my plants back in nov that were without power for a week, well all of them hermied, but none of their clones did. I believe is was truly do to their stressful environment that caused it, not genetics, but who knows {shrug}, I am only going by what I have experienced.

Abe!

 

[OrganicTreees]

I've never quite understood the claim that feminized seeds have a higher tendency to herm. I've only run feminized seeds until recently and had never had a single plant herm that wasn't bagseed. I stressed my plants with light leaks, and all types of things, revegged them, and never had a male flower show on any of them.

This is just my experience

 

[Aberration]

Hey Abe!
Those were some really developed pollen sacks! Good thing you caught them in time
I agree with your take on fem seeds! Remember my plants back in nov that were without power for a week, well all of them hermied, but none of their clones did. I believe is was truly do to their stressful environment that caused it, not genetics, but who knows {shrug}, I am only going by what I have experienced.

Abe!

I've never quite understood the claim that feminized seeds have a higher tendency to herm. I've only run feminized seeds until recently and had never had a single plant herm that wasn't bagseed. I stressed my plants with light leaks, and all types of things, revegged them, and never had a male flower show on any of them.

This is just my experience

Thank you both for the support. I was in a rant mood and trying to not start an argument about it in someone else's journal, so I posted it here. It was very therapeutic. It also helps me to work through the logic when I type it out. And I was stoned.

 

[donpaul.p]

has anyone ever had a femenised seed turn out to be male, is it 100% when they say female or is their always some chance it could be male, im only asking as you read loads of stuff about how to make sure seeds are female by soaking them in stuff or doing other stuff will more than likely give you males, its just ive been reading stuff like that and wondered of femenised seeds are always going to turn out female,

 

[Aberration]

By the way, believe it or not that series of pollen sac pictures was taken with that $40 digital microscope I had so much trouble with. It's still a pain, but not impossible and quick too. I need to figure out what I did with the CD, because I want to record video with it as well.

 

[Aberration]

has anyone ever had a femenised seed turn out to be male, is it 100% when they say female or is their always some chance it could be male, im only asking as you read loads of stuff about how to make sure seeds are female by soaking them in stuff or doing other stuff will more than likely give you males, its just ive been reading stuff like that and wondered of femenised seeds are always going to turn out female,

I've heard that there is the occasional male. It has to be due to stress, especially if it starts early, IMO. Remember that even if it was two different parent plants, both have female chromosomes. Just because the plant decided to produce pollen sacs and pollen doesn't mean the genes are altered, just recombined. Those genes can cross any way they want, but it all comes up female. The system continues to function by producing a plant with all-female chromosomes - a female. From there, it can be stressed into developing as a male of course, but in truth the plants should only be female.

Most of the stuff you are reading about likely involves inducing hormonal changes in some way.

I guess I should see about reading up on it. I used to read a lot of books - back when I had time...

 

[donpaul.p]

thanks for the info, so my only 1 fem seed should be fem as long as i dont mess up lighting schedule during flower or stress it to much in veg, im hoping that ive got that as a back up if my bigger plants turn out to be males,

its bluddy 5:14am and i cant sleep, i hate insomnia, looks like i got crappy day ahead, but get more done as the day tends to drag on and on so i have to find stuff to do,

ive soaked sum seeds so im hoping to do that test with the 12-12 from seed, ll veg some of the seeds for only 2 weeks then the other seeds will go strait under 12-12 because from what ive picked up a plant will only flower when its sexually old enough, so it will be good to compare the growth under 12-12 and the growth under 24-0 for the 1st 2 weeks then after 2 weeks put the ones that veg into flower and see if it makes any different, because if the plant wont switch to flower till its old enough then it will still be in veg at 12-12 but should be in rapid growth as the plant will think its end of season and needs to produce pollen before it dies, thats why the glr method works so well cuz the plant thinks its end of season so has a growth spurt but by giving it the hour of light in night cycle prevents it from switching to flower,

but with the seeds i want to see how much it will veg before showing flowers under 12-12, because ive seen some big plants grown strait from seed so it will be good to see how the 2weeks veg time compares with the 12-12, im thinking that maybe the 12-12 plants will be bigger and taller than the 24-0 plants, thats what i predict anyway,

 

[Aberration]

No problem.

Early Veg graduated to Mid Veg. Otherwise everything is actually humming along pretty well actually.

==> Bloom - Pre-feed flush:

MTP.3D (47/63 days) : 0.50 gal
MTP.3E (47/63 days) : 0.50 gal

BBX.4C (05/56 days) : 0.50 gal

GKA.1B (05/63 days) : 0.50 gal
WW.0A (05/63 days) : 0.50 gal

TDR.1B (05/77 days) : 0.50 gal
SLH.1A (05/77 days) : 0.50 gal
AH1.0B (05/77 days) : 0.50 gal

-Mix (4) gallons
-Per gallon:
1 T liquid steamed bone meal
1 T Yucca
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.25 @ 19.8 C
1 t blackstrap molasses

==> Bloom - Feed:

MTP.3D : 1.50 gal
MTP.3E : 1.50 gal

-Mix (3) gallons - LATE
-Per gallon:
2 T liquid steamed bone meal
1 T Biggest Bloom
2 t PGE
1 t Silica Blast
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
2 t Notrozyme
2 t Organic Supplement
1 t Soil Nute
--- t Big Foot (ord)
1/2 t Calcium Syrup
1/2 t Carbon sweet
2 T Amino Blast
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 800 ppm
pH target: 6.40 (±.10) Actual: 6.26 @ 19.8 C
1/2 t Companion

BBX.4C : 0.75 gal

GKA.1B : 0.75 gal
WW.0A : 0.75 gal

TDR.1B : 0.75 gal
SLH.1A : 0.75 gal
AH1.0B : 0.75 gal

-Mix (5) gallons - EARLY
-Per gallon:
1 T liquid steamed bone meal
1 T Biggest Bloom
1 t PGE
1 t Silica Blast
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
2 t Notrozyme
2 t Organic Supplement
1 t Soil Nute
1 t Big Foot (3rd)
1 t Calcium Syrup
1/2 t Carbon sweet
1 T Amino Blast
1/2 t TM-7
Natural @ 890 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.28 @ 19.8 C
1/2 t Companion

==> Mature Veg:

SLH.1D : 0.25 gal ea
L.6A, L.6D

BD.7C, BD.7J : water to saturation
CH.1A, CH.1B

-Mix (2) gallons
-Per gallon:
1 T Pure Blend Pro Grow
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
--- t Big Foot (ord)
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 680 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.24 @ 19.7 C
1/2 t Companion

==> Medium Veg:

TDR.2C : water to saturation
BBX.5A, BBX.5B
MTP.4A, MTP.4D
SLH.2B, SLH.2E

-Mix (1) gallon
-Per gallon:
2 t Pure Blend Pro Grow
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
--- t Big Foot (ord)
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 700 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.19 @ 19.6 C
1/2 t Companion

 

[Mr White]

Exellent Journal, thank you for all the hard work and detail you've put into it. It took me a month to get through but it was great reading.

 

[Aberration]

Thanks, and I'm glad you enjoyed it. Stick around - it's perpetual. Also, feel free to comment. Either I'll learn from you or you'll learn from me. It's a win either way.

 

[Mr White]

Thanks Abe,
Not a lot that I can add to your journal. You are well on your way to mastering your medium if any of us ever really can. I appreciate the invitation though and the open atmosphere of your journal.

 

[donpaul.p]

i tell you what, this journal goes into the most detail such as amounts of things used, so if this is done for every grow then it could be compared and dialed in to perfection, its a very good idea to do a journal with all that info, its something i would of done if i had the equipment to check ph and had the nutes i was going to use for the whole grow from day one, then i would of tried it like this,

to me its like a journal you would keep at home in a book somewhere for future grows, but here we can all see how its going and what adjustments are made.

reps for the informative and best recorded in terms of nutes etc etc, a great idea

 

[Mr White]

Question for you Abe,
I apologize if it is way back in the journal, but your carbon filters, what are the brand name and CFM that you use? Are there any that you would or would not recommend? The room size that I will be working with is about 850 cubic feet. I was planning on a completely sealed room, but now I'm looking at going with a design I used in the past that just vents the hot air from the top of the room out into the house in the winter, or on hot days (which are few and far between where we live) out of the house. Fresh air is vented in from the house through vents on the bottom of one of the grow-room walls. I am planning on a 200 to 400CFM rate going through the filter. In your opinion or experience would you go with a filter size that is slightly larger that the planned out-take or right at the planed flow? My biggest concern is not intake but outtake, and which size would most efficiently kill odor. I have a 600 can-lite in my shopping cart but I'm willing to adjust the size up or down. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

 

[Aberration]

No problem, Mr White.

And I see you there Quixilvir...

Today I up-sized pots for 4 veg plants(2 each of Cheese and Blue Dream), and put the 5 Super Lemon Haze clones left into small pots. They had been in there since March 4th, so it was time to empty the clone tray.

The only other items in there were clones of the male Qleaner plants. They were developing clear balls already too and were still rooting. Holy crap. At some point I want some pollen to work with, but this isn't the time for that. I have more infrastructure to build before I'm ready for a blooming male at any size. So I nuked them.

The SLH went into 'straight' coco. I say 'straight' because it's not really just coco. It is what I buy locally as "#2".#2 is primarily coco, with a small amount of pumice added. I'm pretty sure that's it. It's supposed to be an inert coco mix. Anyway, I usually call this just coco and mix 2 bags coco with 1/2 bag each of a soil mix, Alaskan Magic, worm castings, a time release mineral supplement, and pumice. I add in a few heaping handfuls of both ground oyster shell and dry bone meal powder.

Rich, I know. That soil is rocket fuel IMO. It's great for strong plants and older plants. I don't age it. I just mix more when I run out. That mixture makes about 50 gallons at a time. It takes a month to use that much in my garden, though that's changing now that I'm adding more plants. But I think the clones in coco plugs were being eaten by it because it's too hot. That's the theory. We'll know if the theory was correct quite soon. I put the SLH clones into coco only.

==> Transplanted:

BD.7C, BD.7J : water to saturation
CH.1A, CH.1B
Transplanted to 4.5" pots

SLH.2F, SLH.2G, SLH.2H, : water to saturation
SLH.2J, SLH.2K
Transplanted to 3.5" pots

-Mix (1) gallon
-Per gallon:
2 T Organic Supplement
1 t Big Foot (1st)
2 t PGE
1 oz. Yucca
Diluted to 420 ppm from 540 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.05) Actual: 6.23 @ 22.0 C
1/2 t Companion
1 t Bt-i

No other feed tonight. That'll be tomorrow. I don't have my camera because I lent it to someone. I need to go get it. Pics soon.

 

[Aberration]

Sorry. I should have refreshed before replying.

i tell you what, this journal goes into the most detail such as amounts of things used, so if this is done for every grow then it could be compared and dialed in to perfection, its a very good idea to do a journal with all that info, its something i would of done if i had the equipment to check ph and had the nutes i was going to use for the whole grow from day one, then i would of tried it like this,

to me its like a journal you would keep at home in a book somewhere for future grows, but here we can all see how its going and what adjustments are made.

reps for the informative and best recorded in terms of nutes etc etc, a great idea

That's kind of what I was trying to do. Unfortunately the nute line is not easily accessible to everyone. It is however available nationally if you don't mind ordering over the internet. I need to get back to working on an easily-purchased nationally-available alternative recipe.

But yeah, the idea is that if I give enough details and someone copies me, they should get similar results. And if I do something silly and I don't know about it, if I give enough detail maybe someone will notice and set me straight. And it is my journal that I would keep anyway. I literally paste in the details. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Question for you Abe,
I apologize if it is way back in the journal, but your carbon filters, what are the brand name and CFM that you use? Are there any that you would or would not recommend? The room size that I will be working with is about 850 cubic feet. I was planning on a completely sealed room, but now I'm looking at going with a design I used in the past that just vents the hot air from the top of the room out into the house in the winter, or on hot days (which are few and far between where we live) out of the house. Fresh air is vented in from the house through vents on the bottom of one of the grow-room walls. I am planning on a 200 to 400CFM rate going through the filter. In your opinion or experience would you go with a filter size that is slightly larger that the planned out-take or right at the planed flow? My biggest concern is not intake but outtake, and which size would most efficiently kill odor. I have a 600 can-lite in my shopping cart but I'm willing to adjust the size up or down. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

I use the Can 66 or the Can 75. Google "Can 66 Carbon Filter with Prefilter" for the exact brand I use. They 'own' the first page of results. Look at the flow details. Check other sizes. The longer the pollutant is in the carbon, the more likely it is to be captured. It's just that simple. A large filter with a small slow fan will scrub a room forever (within reason of course) and do a better job than if you blast air through it. Myself, I would buy the largest one I could afford/fit in and use a small inline, like a 4" or 6". My old bloom was 765 cubic feet at 8.5' x 10' with a 9' ceiling and a Can 66 and a cheap SunLeaves blue plastic 6" was great to just leave running in the room, but if I was evacuating to a smell-free area I would run a speed controller on that fan and run it at 1/2 speed or less. Just enough to get the minimum air exchange needed. Also consider a duct muffler to kill the noise some, but they are so spendy - mine was $165.

 

[Mr White]

Thanks for the reply, you are definitely right about the more time in the medium the better, and it is simple when you think about it like that. I'm leaning towards the 75 now. I let you know what I go with and give you an invite to the journal when I start.

 

[OrganicTreees]

No problem, Mr White.

And I see you there Quixilvir...

Today I up-sized pots for 4 veg plants(2 each of Cheese and Blue Dream), and put the 5 Super Lemon Haze clones left into small pots. They had been in there since March 4th, so it was time to empty the clone tray.

The only other items in there were clones of the male Qleaner plants. They were developing clear balls already too and were still rooting. Holy crap. At some point I want some pollen to work with, but this isn't the time for that. I have more infrastructure to build before I'm ready for a blooming male at any size. So I nuked them.

The SLH went into 'straight' coco. I say 'straight' because it's not really just coco. It is what I buy locally as "#2".#2 is primarily coco, with a small amount of pumice added. I'm pretty sure that's it. It's supposed to be an inert coco mix. Anyway, I usually call this just coco and mix 2 bags coco with 1/2 bag each of a soil mix, Alaskan Magic, worm castings, a time release mineral supplement, and pumice. I add in a few heaping handfuls of both ground oyster shell and dry bone meal powder.

Rich, I know. That soil is rocket fuel IMO. It's great for strong plants and older plants. I don't age it. I just mix more when I run out. That mixture makes about 50 gallons at a time. It takes a month to use that much in my garden, though that's changing now that I'm adding more plants. But I think the clones in coco plugs were being eaten by it because it's too hot. That's the theory. We'll know if the theory was correct quite soon. I put the SLH clones into coco only.

eh the minerals are great and don't usually tend to burn, I'd say it's the blood and bone you're adding that would be frying the clones. Once it cooks a bit, it should be milder, but fresh blood and bone in practically any amount will do some sort of damage.. Once you get them in a medium and have a good root system built, I'm sure they will be fine. I'm trying to find the same balance in my soil, I have it down to where I can use it 100% rather than just as a super soil, but that's probably due to the longer cook time.. I give it a month before I start using it, and then by the time it's all done, another 3 months have gone by.. I only mix up around 30 gal at a time.

But, I'm thinking you'll be alright with the plain coco transition period.. I find my clones don't ask for any food for about a week after they've adjusted to their new homes in the dirt.. The smaller pots are great to get the rootball up to size, and just top with some EWC and you will give them enough fuel to make it to transplant time.

 

[Aberration]

Thanks for the reply, you are definitely right about the more time in the medium the better, and it is simple when you think about it like that. I'm leaning towards the 75 now. I let you know what I go with and give you an invite to the journal when I start.

I look forward to seeing that journal.

eh the minerals are great and don't usually tend to burn, I'd say it's the blood and bone you're adding that would be frying the clones. Once it cooks a bit, it should be milder, but fresh blood and bone in practically any amount will do some sort of damage.. Once you get them in a medium and have a good root system built, I'm sure they will be fine. I'm trying to find the same balance in my soil, I have it down to where I can use it 100% rather than just as a super soil, but that's probably due to the longer cook time.. I give it a month before I start using it, and then by the time it's all done, another 3 months have gone by.. I only mix up around 30 gal at a time.

But, I'm thinking you'll be alright with the plain coco transition period.. I find my clones don't ask for any food for about a week after they've adjusted to their new homes in the dirt.. The smaller pots are great to get the rootball up to size, and just top with some EWC and you will give them enough fuel to make it to transplant time.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. What is EWC?


The following is from last night. I wasn't well last night and someone filled in for me in the garden.

==> Bloom - Pre-feed flush:

MTP.3D (50/63 days) : 0.50 gal
MTP.3E (50/63 days) : 0.50 gal

BBX.4C (08/56 days) : 0.50 gal

GKA.1B (08/63 days) : 0.50 gal
WW.0A (08/63 days) : 0.50 gal

TDR.1B (08/77 days) : 0.50 gal
SLH.1A (08/77 days) : 0.50 gal
AH1.0B (08/77 days) : 0.50 gal

-Mix (4) gallons
-Per gallon:
1 T liquid steamed bone meal
1 T Yucca
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.20 @ 21.3 C
1 t blackstrap molasses

==> Bloom - Feed:

MTP.3D : 1.50 gal
MTP.3E : 1.50 gal

-Mix (3) gallons - LATE
-Per gallon:
2 T liquid steamed bone meal
1 T Biggest Bloom
2 t PGE
1 t Silica Blast
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
2 t Notrozyme
2 t Organic Supplement
1 t Soil Nute
--- t Big Foot (ord)
1/2 t Calcium Syrup
1/2 t Carbon sweet
2 T Amino Blast
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 716 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.15 @ 20.6 C
1/2 t Companion

BBX.4C : 0.75 gal

GKA.1B : 0.75 gal
WW.0A : 0.75 gal

TDR.1B : 0.75 gal
SLH.1A : 0.75 gal
AH1.0B : 0.75 gal

-Mix (5) gallons - EARLY
-Per gallon:
1 T liquid steamed bone meal
1 T Biggest Bloom
1 t PGE
1 t Silica Blast
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
2 t Notrozyme
2 t Organic Supplement
1 t Soil Nute
--- t Big Foot (ord)
1 t Calcium Syrup
1/2 t Carbon sweet
1 T Amino Blast
1/2 t TM-7
Natural @ 736 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.21 @ 19.7 C
1/2 t Companion

==> Mature Veg:

SLH.1D : 0.25 gal ea
L.6A, L.6D

-Mix (1) gallon
-Per gallon:
1 T Pure Blend Pro Grow
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
--- t Big Foot (ord)
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 686 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.25 @ 21.0 C
1/2 t Companion

==> Medium Veg:

TDR.2C : water to saturation
BBX.5A, BBX.5B
MTP.4A, MTP.4D
SLH.2B, SLH.2E

-Mix (1) gallon
-Per gallon:
2 t Pure Blend Pro Grow
1 t Cal-Mag
1 T Yucca
--- t Big Foot (ord)
--- t TM-7
Natural @ 662 ppm
pH target: 6.20 (±.10) Actual: 6.11 @ 20.8 C
1/2 t Companion