Though I've posted a bit over on Sue's study hall for myself, I just found out that a friend has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer - given only 2 months to live. I've used the search button, but not found anything on pancreatic - does someone have experience with cannabis for this type? I'd like to send his wife some info, but 119 pages is lot for a beginner to get through - I'm just up to 39! If the info is somewhere I can use it, I'd be much appreciative! Thanks in advance for the help!
A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer
- Thread starter CajunCelt
- Start date
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
There's not a lot of research specifically on treating pancreatic cancers with cannabis but what research I can find is encouraging. Pancreatic cancer cells have higher expression of both CB1 and CB2 receptors meaning they should respond well to the base regimen.
Cajun's original regimen posted on page 1 is still the best, with 2 adjustments. He was treating liver cancer so he used coconut oil and inserted his suppositories deeper. Your friend will want to use extra virgin olive oil with liquid sunflower lecithin as the carrier oil and insert the suppositories only 1-2 cm (just past sphincter). The reason for both changes is to avoid being metabolized by the liver.
Because this is so aggressive your friend should also start the suppositories immediately. I think the regimen says to start with tacking and then add suppositories when you reach 25% dose. Use both starting immediately to get doses up faster.
Use high THC oil with some CBD, about 3:1 ratio.
Two key points from the regimen:
Include the apigenin (online at Swanson's) and other supplements before each dose, but don't wait for them to arrive before starting suppositories. The apigenin in particular will block liver enzymes and also help stop growth and spread of tumors.
Take 5 doses per day (every 4 hours) rather than fewer larger doses to keep constant pressure on tumors. That's always important, but with pancreatic cancer you don't want to allow even a few hours in day for it to grow. If your friend is like me and wakes up at 3:00 am then squeeze in a 6th dose.
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
Doctor is right that there is no cure for metastatic cancers, because there are cancer cells circulating in blood stream that can start new tumors. Also with traditional chemo there is still a core of cells not killed by chemo that will eventually start to regrow after treatment is stopped.
Maintenance doses of cco will keep it in check though, so your good news is really good news. Thanks for sharing.
My sister took a 3 month leave of absence to take the oil. Her employer has drug testing, with a zero tolerance drug policy. What is the recommended maintenance dose to hopefully keep new tumors from appearing?
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
I use close to 200mg/day because that's the level I was at when I first saw changes in my scans. Rick Simpson recommends 1-2 grams/month which is 30-60 mg/day. It may be possible to do something like 1 week on and 1 month off which would help if she knows when test is scheduled. Hopefully Cajun can speak up on this because I have not found any research on maintenance dosing protocols. I'm sure I'm using more than I need to but have no idea how much less would still work.
I understood that one need to take 2 apigenin capsules before taking a dosage of CCO (please correct me if I am wrong). when taking 3 or 4 dosages a day does it mean one should take each time 2 capsules before the dosage (6-8)? on their site is written Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, take one capsule per day with water.
I saw on swanson site that their product is Pure grapefruit-derived flavonoid does it actually matter if it is from grapefruit or chamomile?
just for info I had my 3 days with tacking 1 dosage and I feel ok and can't complain about anything that disturbed me. I start today for 3 days 2 dosages. thanks to all for the great help and support
edit
I forgot to ask if I should tell my oncologist that I am taking the CCO?
Be aware that a heavy consumer of cannabinoids can hold the traceable components in the system for up to 80 days. This horrendous policy that forces people to choose between holding their jobs or saving their lives has to stop. The reality of the situation is that your sister will be on a maintenance dose that includes THC for the rest of her life, as far as we can determine. Stopping the maintenance dose to be clear can be a dangerous step we hope she's never up against.
How do we get them to understand that this policy of testing for cannabinoids is archaic and potentially deadly? There must be a way. There's so much money being made by the testing companies the resistance will be strong. We need to find an effective way to to get the message out there.
I understood that one need to take 2 apigenin capsules before taking a dosage of CCO (please correct me if I am wrong). when taking 3 or 4 dosages a day does it mean one should take each time 2 capsules before the dosage (6-8)? on their site is written Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, take one capsule per day with water.
I saw on swanson site that their product is Pure grapefruit-derived flavonoid does it actually matter if it is from grapefruit or chamomile?
just for info I had my 3 days with tacking 1 dosage and I feel ok and can't complain about anything that disturbed me. I start today for 3 days 2 dosages. thanks to all for the great help and support
You'd be taking 2 capsules of the apigenin in advance of each dose. You can take much more than the daily recommended. Apignen is a cancer fighter all on its own, on top of being one of the perfect choices for competitive inhibition. Cajun's oncologist recommended he take 15,000 mg a day. He never took that many, but he did precede every suppository dose with his chosen number of capsules. KR discovered on his own the effectiveness of taking at least two with each cannabinoid dose.
We're all learning together. We're also doing our best to keep everyone safe. I'm glad to hear you're tolerating the oil well. It makes it easier to move forward. How are you feeling emotionally? Have you noticed any shift in your mental/emotional tone? Tacking frequently creates a deep sense of wellbeing. It's all those cannabinoids attaching to brain cells, slowing down the release of stress neurotransmitters that create mental chaos.
SweetSue
thank you for clarifying the apigenin dosage (very important)
emotionally? frankly I didn't feel any change beside this morning I somehow had a deep thinking about my situation and was very sad
I edited and added another question to my last posting
edit
I forgot to ask if I should tell my oncologist that I am taking the CCO?
any idea?
SweetSue
thank you for clarifying the apigenin dosage (very important)
emotionally? frankly I didn't feel any change beside this morning I somehow had a deep thinking about my situation and was very sad
I edited and added another question to my last posting
edit
I forgot to ask if I should tell my oncologist that I am taking the CCO?
any idea?
It's always a good idea, in my opinion, to keep your oncologist informed about your holistic choices, but the reality is not all doctors are open to this protocol. The decision to share with the doctors is a personal one. Hopefully they respond positively. The cannabinoids can potentiate the chemo drugs, so it really is important that everyone be on the same page. If chemo drugs can be reduced that's a choice worth exploring.
Take heart. I understand the stress this diagnosis brings, but you've chosen an option for treatment that holds great potential to balance your internal healing forces. You've taken control of your health care in a profound way. Take every opportunity to appreciate the wonder of life around you. This seemingly innocuous step of deliberately feeling appreciation and wonder has more healing potential than it gets credit for. The ECS responds to your emotional tone, and the more joy you can express the easier it is for the system to fulfill its goal of healing and balance.
that is a very difficult decision if I should tell the oncologist. lets say I tell him so what could he do? he cant give reduced chemo as they added even avastin and btw avastin has terrible side effects
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
that is a very difficult decision if I should tell the oncologist. lets say I tell him so what could he do? he cant give reduced chemo as they added even avastin and btw avastin has terrible side effects
It's a tough decision but it's the right one. First of all your doctors need to know everything that can affect your treatment. There are few negative drug interactions, but doctors need to know you are using cco and other supplements.
Second, if your doctor is not accepting of mmj as medicine or at least open to idea then you have the wrong doctor. You need someone you can trust with all your personal information. (well, almost all. It's okay to have a few secrets.
)Third, we need doctors to know that we are using mmj and being successful with it. They have no training about mmj and know much less about it than we do. Getting doctors to see it first hand and learning how to use it successfully is key step in reforming drug laws and medical practice.
- Thread starter
- #1,794
CajunCelt
New Member
Real quick then I'm going to bed. I've every single window open & it's awesome.
Moving on,
We know a few things that need mentioning.
First; prostate, brain & breast cancer so far are the quickest to respond to the cco. They've a much larger chance to get after it.
Some bad news....
A study came out awhile back starting that colon cells with cancer have a very low expression of CB receptors. That means lots more work to engage the ECS. Lots of demythylating.
Vacation time?
Moving on,
We know a few things that need mentioning.
First; prostate, brain & breast cancer so far are the quickest to respond to the cco. They've a much larger chance to get after it.
Some bad news....
A study came out awhile back starting that colon cells with cancer have a very low expression of CB receptors. That means lots more work to engage the ECS. Lots of demythylating.
Vacation time?
Donvito
New Member
I have used this guide in the past to decarb. 252f for 27 mins.
Which I have done again.
Is the 230/110 considerable better?
Which I have done again.
Is the 230/110 considerable better?
I have used this guide in the past to decarb. 252f for 27 mins.
Which I have done again.
Is the 230/110 considerable better?
This chart was recently debunked as being fake. I don't know the story behind this, just the basics.
Dutch researchers went to great lengths to find what they believe was the best time and temperature for maximum THC conversion, and it turned our to be 110C for 110 minutes. I can't say whether it's an appreciable difference from what you did Donvito, but I know that one of our own, neikodog, used the Dutch numbers and he got 97% conversion, if memory serves me.
Decarb is a function of time and temperature. This means there's great flexibility. Do you have the ability to have your product tested?
Donvito
New Member
Is that an invitation? Or a need for one?
Ecs? Demythlating?
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
ECS = endocannabinoid system
Demethylating is removing methyl groups from receptors so they can be activated again. Methyl group is common molecular group (CH3) leftover from breakdown of cannabinoids and other molecules. They gum up receptors, dna, rna, enzymes and other proteins and prevent them from doing their job. We use mangos and green tea because they contain chemicals that remove them. Otherwise the cannabinoids can't do their job.
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
I have used this guide in the past to decarb. 252f for 27 mins.
Which I have done again.
Is the 230/110 considerable better?
The chart isn't completely fake, but it is misleading because it leaves out some important information. If they extended chart to 2 hours it would show a higher peak level of THC at 230 F after 110 minutes than shorter time at higher temps. The other thing chart doesn't mention is how much CBN is created at temps above 230 F. Last fall one of our members shared the Dutch study that found 230 F to be ideal temp. I found study by GW Pharmaceuticals that confirms it (or actually 220 F for 2 hours, they didn't test 230). It also showed how much CBN gets produced. At 220 for 2 hours you get 98% conversion of THC (i.e. 2% THCA left) and 3% of THC degraded to CBN. At 250 you can decarb 99% of THC in 1 hour with 4% CBN, but if you go any longer the CBN rises rapidly. At 280 you get 100% conversion by .5 hours but CBN is at 6% but a few minutes longer and you get double digits. Keep in mind that THC keeps degrading until it cools, so just removing it from heat doesn't stop it. GW actually included data up to 4 hours. I wish they had tested temps below 220. What neither study mentions is how much terpenes are boiled off at those high temps. Decarbing at 250 isn't bad if you stop soon enough and absolutely do not go over 250, but 230 is better.