re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
sometimes both forks in the road lead to good things
sometimes both forks in the road lead to good things
480W & 720W LED Grow - Land of Clovers
- Thread starter IrishBoy
- Start date
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
Would you mind a longer vegetative period? If not and if you see having a little time every day to tend to all the "tops" - with your lights you're likely to have them fighting to get at it... Frustrate those tops (in a manner of speaking) by keeping them low and soon you'll be looking at mad branching. Doing this, continuing to frustrate the multiple tops/tips and soon you won't have room for any more plants, lol.
Considering you've got strong lights, maybe let the growth fill the screen a little more initially with the intention of then letting the individual tops reach upwards more at the end of the traditional "filling stage" since your screen will be fuller at that point anyway - and it appears that the lights will be able to penetrate better so this would be seen as a good thing instead of a bad thing. If you don't get carried away and strangle the plants from lack of room, it ought to look like a scrog that's been supersized (just allow for extra room above the screen because you'll have more upwards growth)... Instead of hundreds of normal-sized buds, you'll have... hundreds... of...
?
I don't see that as a bad thing. Just grab a helper for the harvest, saw (literally) the trunks off down low, and you and your buddy carry the entire screen out and spend the next several (and several after that? lol) hours cutting a "bud" loose, trimming it, cutting a notch into the lower stem, and hanging it upside down (whatever your method of choice is). And repeating until your done.
Simple, no? Just make sure that you've allowed for the root-mass that you'll be looking at - the traditional gauge of one gallon per foot of height goes out the window when one or two plants branch out to fill the entire area of the grow and you find yourself wondering if you could walk across the canopy without sinking
.
How's that sound? Think I... read about it somewhere?
PS save the massive roots (assuming they're healthy) and start adding them a little at a time to salads and pasta, lol. Waste not, want not and all that.
Would you mind a longer vegetative period? If not and if you see having a little time every day to tend to all the "tops" - with your lights you're likely to have them fighting to get at it... Frustrate those tops (in a manner of speaking) by keeping them low and soon you'll be looking at mad branching. Doing this, continuing to frustrate the multiple tops/tips and soon you won't have room for any more plants, lol.
Considering you've got strong lights, maybe let the growth fill the screen a little more initially with the intention of then letting the individual tops reach upwards more at the end of the traditional "filling stage" since your screen will be fuller at that point anyway - and it appears that the lights will be able to penetrate better so this would be seen as a good thing instead of a bad thing. If you don't get carried away and strangle the plants from lack of room, it ought to look like a scrog that's been supersized (just allow for extra room above the screen because you'll have more upwards growth)... Instead of hundreds of normal-sized buds, you'll have... hundreds... of...
?I don't see that as a bad thing. Just grab a helper for the harvest, saw (literally) the trunks off down low, and you and your buddy carry the entire screen out and spend the next several (and several after that? lol) hours cutting a "bud" loose, trimming it, cutting a notch into the lower stem, and hanging it upside down (whatever your method of choice is). And repeating until your done.
Simple, no? Just make sure that you've allowed for the root-mass that you'll be looking at - the traditional gauge of one gallon per foot of height goes out the window when one or two plants branch out to fill the entire area of the grow and you find yourself wondering if you could walk across the canopy without sinking
.How's that sound? Think I... read about it somewhere?
PS save the massive roots (assuming they're healthy) and start adding them a little at a time to salads and pasta, lol. Waste not, want not and all that.
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
ya it has to be lava then
with the ss4 mix could not just put some lime in with the mix, i heard that it keeps your medium at like 6.8?
im sure youll figure somehting good.
what i would do if the two girl died, i would do a 2 plant scrog. i havent see u do that, it would be cool
unless u are really trying to do a test run then ya get 2 more clones. same strain? if so then the two u have are gonna be way ahead of the new ones.
good luck bro
ya it has to be lava then
with the ss4 mix could not just put some lime in with the mix, i heard that it keeps your medium at like 6.8?
im sure youll figure somehting good.
what i would do if the two girl died, i would do a 2 plant scrog. i havent see u do that, it would be cool
unless u are really trying to do a test run then ya get 2 more clones. same strain? if so then the two u have are gonna be way ahead of the new ones.good luck bro
- Thread starter
- #144
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
the only bad thing is i want to knock this grow out as fast as i can and soak up the cold winter weather before i have to face hell again in the heat.
if i were to go SCROG i would flower until the screen was all the way filled up, i would also have the screen no closer them 12". ive been a big fan of SCROG and have learn some good info from great SCROG growers, the biggest thing most mess up on if flowering too early and ending up with a bunk of smaller buds everywhere. not my style of flowering. this is how i want my SCORG to look, 1 plant under a 400w HPS with DWC
This is a SCROG done right. he keeps his screen 20" and vegges for 10 days and flowers for 60days, he knows his strain real good i think he grew it for 8yrs but i could be wrong. the thing that worries me is leds dont stretch that much in flowering so it would be hard to time it. i would end up waiting until their about 6" above the screen to flower.
This is what i am going to do. Call the club tomorrow and see if they have any more of the Casey Jones clones? if they do i will pick up 2 more, if not then i will SCROG, if i am going to add more clones i need to do it now while their still young, any latter then my canopy will be screwed and ill have to raise up those girls to equal things out.
yup u can add lime and you should be ok. or cut it with 1/2 perlite like i did my last grow and you should be ok.
ill see if i can get the same clones tomorrow if not then i might do a SCROG. 1st time for everything.
truesometimes both forks in the road lead to good things
Would you mind a longer vegetative period? If not and if you see having a little time every day to tend to all the "tops" - with your lights you're likely to have them fighting to get at it... Frustrate those tops (in a manner of speaking) by keeping them low and soon you'll be looking at mad branching. Doing this, continuing to frustrate the multiple tops/tips and soon you won't have room for any more plants, lol.
Considering you've got strong lights, maybe let the growth fill the screen a little more initially with the intention of then letting the individual tops reach upwards more at the end of the traditional "filling stage" since your screen will be fuller at that point anyway - and it appears that the lights will be able to penetrate better so this would be seen as a good thing instead of a bad thing. If you don't get carried away and strangle the plants from lack of room, it ought to look like a scrog that's been supersized (just allow for extra room above the screen because you'll have more upwards growth)... Instead of hundreds of normal-sized buds, you'll have... hundreds... of...
I don't see that as a bad thing. Just grab a helper for the harvest, saw (literally) the trunks off down low, and you and your buddy carry the entire screen out and spend the next several (and several after that? lol) hours cutting a "bud" loose, trimming it, cutting a notch into the lower stem, and hanging it upside down (whatever your method of choice is). And repeating until your done.
Simple, no? Just make sure that you've allowed for the root-mass that you'll be looking at - the traditional gauge of one gallon per foot of height goes out the window when one or two plants branch out to fill the entire area of the grow and you find yourself wondering if you could walk across the canopy without sinking
How's that sound? Think I... read about it somewhere?
PS save the massive roots (assuming they're healthy) and start adding them a little at a time to salads and pasta, lol. Waste not, want not and all that.
the only bad thing is i want to knock this grow out as fast as i can and soak up the cold winter weather before i have to face hell again in the heat.
if i were to go SCROG i would flower until the screen was all the way filled up, i would also have the screen no closer them 12". ive been a big fan of SCROG and have learn some good info from great SCROG growers, the biggest thing most mess up on if flowering too early and ending up with a bunk of smaller buds everywhere. not my style of flowering. this is how i want my SCORG to look, 1 plant under a 400w HPS with DWC
This is a SCROG done right. he keeps his screen 20" and vegges for 10 days and flowers for 60days, he knows his strain real good i think he grew it for 8yrs but i could be wrong. the thing that worries me is leds dont stretch that much in flowering so it would be hard to time it. i would end up waiting until their about 6" above the screen to flower.
This is what i am going to do. Call the club tomorrow and see if they have any more of the Casey Jones clones? if they do i will pick up 2 more, if not then i will SCROG, if i am going to add more clones i need to do it now while their still young, any latter then my canopy will be screwed and ill have to raise up those girls to equal things out.
ya it has to be lava then
with the ss4 mix could not just put some lime in with the mix, i heard that it keeps your medium at like 6.8?
im sure youll figure somehting good.
what i would do if the two girl died, i would do a 2 plant scrog. i havent see u do that, it would be cool
good luck bro
yup u can add lime and you should be ok. or cut it with 1/2 perlite like i did my last grow and you should be ok.
ill see if i can get the same clones tomorrow if not then i might do a SCROG. 1st time for everything.
Dexter4Morgan
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
CO2 tanks should not cost that much if you know someone in the food & beverage industry. Just ask them to order an extra one next time they need some
CO2 tanks should not cost that much if you know someone in the food & beverage industry. Just ask them to order an extra one next time they need some
thinkerr
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
just finished reading your last grow and just caught up on this one. lookin forward to a great journal.
sucks about those clones though. i was thinking (for the future) maybe make a diy aerocloner and let the clones sit in there until the roots are long enough to reach the storage of TRF you want to mix toward the bottom of the buckets. this would be done in the veg room 3 weeks before flowering ends for the current grow. this way you could also add some weak neuts to the res of the cloner to get them tolerant to the higher amount of neuts they will be getting in the buckets.
by the way what is DWC?
also you had your lights at 32" on the last grow and those lights were twice as strong maybe lower these lights. you said these lights are at 28". i dont know a lot about how light interacts with the absorbtion of neuts but that could be the case if it does have anything to do with it.
if these lights are 1/2 the power maybe make your light height 18".
by the way i have no growing experience im just throwing some ideas out there so i encourgae the growers to be critical so i can learn.
just finished reading your last grow and just caught up on this one. lookin forward to a great journal.
sucks about those clones though. i was thinking (for the future) maybe make a diy aerocloner and let the clones sit in there until the roots are long enough to reach the storage of TRF you want to mix toward the bottom of the buckets. this would be done in the veg room 3 weeks before flowering ends for the current grow. this way you could also add some weak neuts to the res of the cloner to get them tolerant to the higher amount of neuts they will be getting in the buckets.
by the way what is DWC?
also you had your lights at 32" on the last grow and those lights were twice as strong maybe lower these lights. you said these lights are at 28". i dont know a lot about how light interacts with the absorbtion of neuts but that could be the case if it does have anything to do with it.
if these lights are 1/2 the power maybe make your light height 18".
by the way i have no growing experience im just throwing some ideas out there so i encourgae the growers to be critical so i can learn.
- Thread starter
- #147
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
that is the game plan when i get another small tent and find the strain i want. i am working up to that level and making my own clones and cutting out the middle man (the med club) hopefully soon.
i dont remember what with my other light was? 32" sounds right when i was using the 600w for veg at 1st i believe? but i also believe it got lowered down after they grew more, light i will do to this light, right now i am around 25" and working down. each one of these lights drawl 240w and are still very intense. but u might be right i should lower them soon. i just wanted to keep them higher right now since those 2 are very stressed out. i am 99.9% sure the one is dead, the other might make it? ill see how she looks tomorrow and decide what to do from their? i am going to work down to around 18-20" maybe 2" a day.
DWC= Deep Water Culture
thanks for the good post you are smart for studying the art of growing and asking questions, thats the key to good grows. read a ton of suspenseful grow threads and ask plenty of questions. you can avoid allot of problems this way by learning from others Do's and Dont's
that is the game plan when i get another small tent and find the strain i want. i am working up to that level and making my own clones and cutting out the middle man (the med club) hopefully soon.
i dont remember what with my other light was? 32" sounds right when i was using the 600w for veg at 1st i believe? but i also believe it got lowered down after they grew more, light i will do to this light, right now i am around 25" and working down. each one of these lights drawl 240w and are still very intense. but u might be right i should lower them soon. i just wanted to keep them higher right now since those 2 are very stressed out. i am 99.9% sure the one is dead, the other might make it? ill see how she looks tomorrow and decide what to do from their? i am going to work down to around 18-20" maybe 2" a day.
DWC= Deep Water Culture
thanks for the good post
you are smart for studying the art of growing and asking questions, thats the key to good grows. read a ton of suspenseful grow threads and ask plenty of questions. you can avoid allot of problems this way by learning from others Do's and Dont's- Thread starter
- #148
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
a little up date. i talked to the med club and explained to them what happen with these 2 girls and how the other 2 are doing great. they said come down and they will give me 2 of the healthiest Casey Jones clones for free. these cutting are also from the famous Joe Schmo.
a little up date. i talked to the med club and explained to them what happen with these 2 girls and how the other 2 are doing great. they said come down and they will give me 2 of the healthiest Casey Jones clones for free. these cutting are also from the famous Joe Schmo.
Bionic
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
You mean he veg's his plants for 10 days after they hit the screen, right? Sorry if that's a dumb question. If that's the case, do you know what his total veg time is?
Win!
You mean he veg's his plants for 10 days after they hit the screen, right? Sorry if that's a dumb question. If that's the case, do you know what his total veg time is?
Win!
- Thread starter
- #150
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
nope just 10 days then he throws the screen on and fills it while its flowering and stretching. 10 days veg 60 days flowering total 70days with a flush
nope just 10 days then he throws the screen on and fills it while its flowering and stretching. 10 days veg 60 days flowering total 70days with a flush
Bionic
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
That's crazy! Thanks for the info!
That's crazy! Thanks for the info!
turttle
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
Yeah I agree.that was realy just at the top of my head.You can find better deal(not hydro store).Just a quik quote as I dont want to be off subject.You can find steel tanks pretty cheap.But for a 20g aluminum cheapest I found run 80-120 and a good regulator 100-150.For percision and to do it correctly you need a controller and these can be off the hook expensive.Cheapest I found was the new cap controllers just for co2.Last time I priced was one for 250 wich is the bottom of the bottom line and you wont find a better deal.The next one up is the digital for 350-375 that you can program your exact ppm.This would be ideal for small hobby grower.Prices can be extreme for more of the industrial equipment.Its still expensive.
Yeah I agree.that was realy just at the top of my head.You can find better deal(not hydro store).Just a quik quote as I dont want to be off subject.You can find steel tanks pretty cheap.But for a 20g aluminum cheapest I found run 80-120 and a good regulator 100-150.For percision and to do it correctly you need a controller and these can be off the hook expensive.Cheapest I found was the new cap controllers just for co2.Last time I priced was one for 250 wich is the bottom of the bottom line and you wont find a better deal.The next one up is the digital for 350-375 that you can program your exact ppm.This would be ideal for small hobby grower.Prices can be extreme for more of the industrial equipment.Its still expensive.
thinkerr
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
do they make controllers that can multi-task? they work like a thermostat where they turn on whenever the low setting is hit and turns on to maintain that setting then shut off?
so do they make one that can control CO2, lights (24/0, 12/12, and others), ventilation (when temps are reached), reservoir feedings?
if they dont i wish i was a computer programmer cause the technology already exists to do this its just in a few different systems id have to bring into one.
do they make controllers that can multi-task? they work like a thermostat where they turn on whenever the low setting is hit and turns on to maintain that setting then shut off?
so do they make one that can control CO2, lights (24/0, 12/12, and others), ventilation (when temps are reached), reservoir feedings?
if they dont i wish i was a computer programmer cause the technology already exists to do this its just in a few different systems id have to bring into one.
turttle
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
Yes if you got the $$$$
Yes if you got the $$$$
thinkerr
New Member
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
these more expensive controllers seem to be flawed because you have to plug everything you want to control into them. seems like your paying more for a fancy power surge protector that can handle the "appliances" and rather than for the technology. there are better ways of applying this technology without having to worry about burning your house down.
these more expensive controllers seem to be flawed because you have to plug everything you want to control into them. seems like your paying more for a fancy power surge protector that can handle the "appliances" and rather than for the technology. there are better ways of applying this technology without having to worry about burning your house down.
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
I grew white widow before and if you get the sativa pheno they will stretch like a rubber band. I would start 12/12 at 10 to 12 inches and after about 2 or 3 weeks they were topping 36 to 48 inches. Then they keep growing another 4 to 10 inches on the main colas through the remainder of the grow. It's pretty crazy. You really have to know your strain and pheno really well to perfectly optimize a scrog. But once you do you saw the results.
That's crazy! Thanks for the info!
I grew white widow before and if you get the sativa pheno they will stretch like a rubber band. I would start 12/12 at 10 to 12 inches and after about 2 or 3 weeks they were topping 36 to 48 inches. Then they keep growing another 4 to 10 inches on the main colas through the remainder of the grow. It's pretty crazy. You really have to know your strain and pheno really well to perfectly optimize a scrog. But once you do you saw the results.
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
Not sure I understand your point. I mean... Be a bit hard for a device to control everything if you just carried it in and stuck it in the corner without connecting the devices you wised it to control to said device, wouldn't it?
Or am I missing something?
Accidentally hit the quote button instead of the multi quote one so no quotes for these:
IrishBoy, that's great news about the clones! I'm glad they're replacing them. Obviously, it's good for their reputation (and is a decent thing to do) and I can't see where anything you did caused the problems, but when a place sells clones, the minute those clones leave their possession, it's pretty much out of their hands what happens as far as treatment/environment. So, trying to be completely objective here, I wouldn't have blamed them if they'd told you they were sorry - even been sorry - you had problems, but refused to replace them. Sounds like it's a great place, you've got a good relationship with them, or both.
The picture you posted doesn't really look like the traditional idea of a scrog to me. Looks more like he just used the screen as a way to help hold his colas up and to keep them spaced right. (But it still looks like a great grow.) That's cool - his light is a lot brighter and has much more penetration than what people were using (bunch of 4' 40-watt tubes) when they started using a screen and later coined the term "scrog" to describe. A flat panel of lights without much (lol) in the way of penetrative ability, it made sense to train the plant(s) in such a way that if you'd only have useful light hitting the top few inches of your buds to grow a thick carpet of buds only a few inches long instead of trying for less but larger buds.
It would be very interesting (IMHO) to see some experimentation with LEDs and (traditional, or nearly so) scrog. Flat-panel lighting but with much better penetration than the old tubes. Perhaps less than a high-powered HID, perhaps not (IDK?). Just plan the setup so that there'd always be room for a gap between the tops of the plant and the light for proper spectrum mixing, figure out (or guess) how far into a well-filled canopy the light would penetrate, and grow accordingly. If the end-result was a grow that had the maximum amount of bud between the upper-limit where the individual LEDs' wavelengths weren't blended and the lower limit where penetration dropped off severely... The results could be astounding - even more so than your grows, I mean, lol - and might end up severely shaking up the market in such a way that the only people still buying HIDs would be those who just couldn't afford good LEDs (and they'd be saving their pennies to get them in the future).
Or... maybe not. Be cool, though. I'd subscribe.
Not sure I understand your point. I mean... Be a bit hard for a device to control everything if you just carried it in and stuck it in the corner without connecting the devices you wised it to control to said device, wouldn't it?
Or am I missing something?
Accidentally hit the quote button instead of the multi quote one so no quotes for these:
IrishBoy, that's great news about the clones! I'm glad they're replacing them. Obviously, it's good for their reputation (and is a decent thing to do) and I can't see where anything you did caused the problems, but when a place sells clones, the minute those clones leave their possession, it's pretty much out of their hands what happens as far as treatment/environment. So, trying to be completely objective here, I wouldn't have blamed them if they'd told you they were sorry - even been sorry - you had problems, but refused to replace them. Sounds like it's a great place, you've got a good relationship with them, or both.
The picture you posted doesn't really look like the traditional idea of a scrog to me. Looks more like he just used the screen as a way to help hold his colas up and to keep them spaced right. (But it still looks like a great grow.) That's cool - his light is a lot brighter and has much more penetration than what people were using (bunch of 4' 40-watt tubes) when they started using a screen and later coined the term "scrog" to describe. A flat panel of lights without much (lol) in the way of penetrative ability, it made sense to train the plant(s) in such a way that if you'd only have useful light hitting the top few inches of your buds to grow a thick carpet of buds only a few inches long instead of trying for less but larger buds.
It would be very interesting (IMHO) to see some experimentation with LEDs and (traditional, or nearly so) scrog. Flat-panel lighting but with much better penetration than the old tubes. Perhaps less than a high-powered HID, perhaps not (IDK?). Just plan the setup so that there'd always be room for a gap between the tops of the plant and the light for proper spectrum mixing, figure out (or guess) how far into a well-filled canopy the light would penetrate, and grow accordingly. If the end-result was a grow that had the maximum amount of bud between the upper-limit where the individual LEDs' wavelengths weren't blended and the lower limit where penetration dropped off severely... The results could be astounding - even more so than your grows, I mean, lol - and might end up severely shaking up the market in such a way that the only people still buying HIDs would be those who just couldn't afford good LEDs (and they'd be saving their pennies to get them in the future).
Or... maybe not. Be cool, though. I'd subscribe.
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
Were those sexually-mature clones (staggered internodes, ability to flower at the drop of a hat and already showing "pre-flowers") or were they still immature plants, perhaps grown from individual seeds, when you flipped the lights to the flowering cycle?
(And yeah, the sativa-variant of WW will stretch like a rubber-band, lol. Worth the hassle, though.)
Were those sexually-mature clones (staggered internodes, ability to flower at the drop of a hat and already showing "pre-flowers") or were they still immature plants, perhaps grown from individual seeds, when you flipped the lights to the flowering cycle?
(And yeah, the sativa-variant of WW will stretch like a rubber-band, lol. Worth the hassle, though.)
re: Irish Boy's - 480W & 720w Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers
They were from seed and vegged for 15 or so days after hitting the third or fourth set of leaves. I don't remember. I do know I started flowering at 10 to 12 inches because that is what I had read somewhere to do with white widow. It's a good thing I did. The space btw nodes was close enough to form main colas that were up to15 inches long at the top. Then there was many buds that were 4 to 6 inches on all the side branches which there were many of. I definitely didn't do this in 70 days though. My ww girls took about 65 days of flowering. I was just commenting on how much they can and will stretch with the right pheno. I also didn't have the optimal conditions he did and I used soil.
They were from seed and vegged for 15 or so days after hitting the third or fourth set of leaves. I don't remember. I do know I started flowering at 10 to 12 inches because that is what I had read somewhere to do with white widow. It's a good thing I did. The space btw nodes was close enough to form main colas that were up to15 inches long at the top. Then there was many buds that were 4 to 6 inches on all the side branches which there were many of. I definitely didn't do this in 70 days though. My ww girls took about 65 days of flowering. I was just commenting on how much they can and will stretch with the right pheno. I also didn't have the optimal conditions he did and I used soil.