ClosedCircuit
New Member
If anyone wants to spend that much money they might be interested in plasma light sources as an alternative to LED
36Gr0w's First Journal - Hi-Brix - LOS - Indoor & Out!
- Thread starter 36Gr0w
- Start date
Just to be clear ... I always use the draw wattage when talking about LEDs. The other number is silly.
1000 watts of LED will produce more PAR than 1000 watts of HID - that's a fact - and it's PAR umols we want, so LEDs are more efficient and much cooler.
As CC pointed out, cooling isn't really an issue in a commercial grow in a large building, so LED's one great advantage is lost on the big growers. But in a small hobby grow, it makes some sense. HID are Hot. So as a hobbyist, I'm able to justify not only switching to LED, but nearly doubling the power from 600 watts hps to 1000 watts LED.
This way I should get quality and yield. If not, I have an old 400 watt CMH I'm itching to try in a CMH/LED hybrid - center CMH with LEDs in the corners. 
1000 watts of LED will produce more PAR than 1000 watts of HID - that's a fact - and it's PAR umols we want, so LEDs are more efficient and much cooler.
As CC pointed out, cooling isn't really an issue in a commercial grow in a large building, so LED's one great advantage is lost on the big growers. But in a small hobby grow, it makes some sense. HID are Hot. So as a hobbyist, I'm able to justify not only switching to LED, but nearly doubling the power from 600 watts hps to 1000 watts LED.
This way I should get quality and yield. If not, I have an old 400 watt CMH I'm itching to try in a CMH/LED hybrid - center CMH with LEDs in the corners. 
Just to be clear ... I always use the draw wattage when talking about LEDs. The other number is silly.
1000 watts of LED will produce more PAR than 1000 watts of HID - that's a fact - and it's PAR umols we want, so LEDs are more efficient and much cooler.
As CC pointed out, cooling isn't really an issue in a commercial grow in a large building, so LED's one great advantage is lost on the big growers. But in a small hobby grow, it makes some sense. HID are Hot. So as a hobbyist, I'm able to justify not only switching to LED, but nearly doubling the power from 600 watts hps to 1000 watts LED.
Now that sounds interesting. You have such enviable options Graytail.
- Thread starter
- #1,164
I greatly appreciate the input, opinions, and conversation that has been going on. Thank you all.
I made a diy earth box today, out of things laying around. Please excuse what I imagine will be horrid layout(cell phone), and feel free to ask questions, post concerns, or talk about lights some more.
Mods, if I did this wrong again, I'm sorry. I'm trying lol
I made a diy earth box today, out of things laying around. Please excuse what I imagine will be horrid layout(cell phone), and feel free to ask questions, post concerns, or talk about lights some more.
Mods, if I did this wrong again, I'm sorry. I'm trying lol
- Thread starter
- #1,165
This earth box inspired project is a Sub Irrigated Planter, wicking water up from the bottom res into the soil. The top is mulched and covered to allow the micro life to thrive and break down the top dressings and mulches.
I used an old plastic grass bagger from an old riding lawn mower as my pot. The rimmed "lid" keeps the final plastic top on tight. I cut am old brown basket to the size I needed to fit in the bottom of my pot and form a res. Old filter fabric was used as a screen to keep the soil out of the res, and to help wick water up. The ends of an old wiffle ball bat were cut off, and the bat is used for watering.
I drilled a bunch of holes all over the brown basket, covered with the filter fabric, and put it in the bottom of the pot.
An overflow hole is needed, to make sure you aren't flooding your pot.
I made a top dressing of neem, karanja, kelp, minerals, crustacean meal, and home made compost/ewc. This was worked in the top layer of soil with some oats.
This was watered in with some fish hydrozolate water.
Next, we mulched the top few inches with straw, and thoroughly watered it all.
Lastly, we covered the mulch with black plastic and held it down with the lid.
The res was watered until overflow, and we are done. CBD Widow transplanted and ready to flower when I decide to put her in!
I used an old plastic grass bagger from an old riding lawn mower as my pot. The rimmed "lid" keeps the final plastic top on tight. I cut am old brown basket to the size I needed to fit in the bottom of my pot and form a res. Old filter fabric was used as a screen to keep the soil out of the res, and to help wick water up. The ends of an old wiffle ball bat were cut off, and the bat is used for watering.
I drilled a bunch of holes all over the brown basket, covered with the filter fabric, and put it in the bottom of the pot.
An overflow hole is needed, to make sure you aren't flooding your pot.
I made a top dressing of neem, karanja, kelp, minerals, crustacean meal, and home made compost/ewc. This was worked in the top layer of soil with some oats.
This was watered in with some fish hydrozolate water.
Next, we mulched the top few inches with straw, and thoroughly watered it all.
Lastly, we covered the mulch with black plastic and held it down with the lid.
The res was watered until overflow, and we are done. CBD Widow transplanted and ready to flower when I decide to put her in!
- Thread starter
- #1,166
The Science - Pacific Light Concepts
*Copy/Pasted*
The Science
Light and Plant Growth
There are many different ways of assessing light. But there are certain methods and terms that pertain specifically to plant growth and its symbiotic relationship with light. Quantity(or intensity) and quality(or spectrum) are 2 very basic but sometime misunderstood factors. They are also the 2 most important, so let's look at them closer.
Light quantity
Light quantity is the most directly correlated factor to biomass yields. Photosynthesis is a quantum process, and can be quantified on a photon bases. There are three ways of measuring and testing light quantity.
PPF(photosynthetic photon flux)- is the unit of measurement that shows the total output of a lamp or light source. It is a measurement in µmols/sec of photons emitted by the source. It is a very useful figure because it shows the ability and/or possibility of the lamps capability.
Average PPFD(photosynthetic photon flux density)— As we have said before, it is the relationship between light and plants that makes up a grow light, and grow space is a one of the most essential factors. 1 sq meter is the area unit which studies and scientist have standardized for the measurement unit PPFD. The "D" signify density, meaning how much PPF per area(1m^2). Studies of many varieties of plants have determined that 700-1000µmols/m^2 average is the optimal range for higher light crops. The PPF(total output) of the lamp ÷ by the area in m^2 will give you the average PPFD of the area based on the PPF available. In the case of the CX300, with a PPF of 720µmols, and a coverage area of 3'x3′(.836m^2) we get 720÷.836127=~861µmols/m^2/sec.
Instantaneous PPFD(PAR meters)- Many people have seen instantaneous PPFD readings from tools like PAR meters. These are very useful to see how light is distributed and to check direct intensity levels relative to plant growth. How ever they do not tell the PPF of the lamp, or a true average PPFD of the entire canopy. They are only an extrapolated square meter figures based on that single point in space. As one single measurement these meters can be very misleading, especially with LEDs and their target beams. But when used as a network of instantaneous data points, we can see how well a lamp or source is covering an area and at what intensity.
Light quality
A better known form of light quality is spectrum. Spectrum is the essentially the colors of light that are emitted from a source. Different colors are made by photons at certain energy levels and are broken down into nanometers(nm's). When it comes to photosynthesis, the differences in the nm of a photon, or it's color, changes it's potential effectiveness to drive photosynthesis. This was shown by Dr. McCree in 1972, when he studied and averaged 22 different species of both indoor and field grown plants with their carbon fixation in response to different wavelengths of light. When graphed for every nm in the spectrums range(320nm -780nm), we get what is known the McCree Relative Quantum Efficiency curve, or RQE. To this day, is the only scientifically accepted "action spectrum"
Notice that there is no extreme differences across the range as some are lead to believe. Though red and blue nm's are driving forces in photosynthesis and physiological development, they are no way the only useful or necessary nm's for maximum physiological expression and biomass yields. A full and targeted spectrum is needed so that photosynthesis is maximized and that biological processes are triggered correctly.
© Pacific Light Concepts 2015
*Copy/Pasted*
The Science
Light and Plant Growth
There are many different ways of assessing light. But there are certain methods and terms that pertain specifically to plant growth and its symbiotic relationship with light. Quantity(or intensity) and quality(or spectrum) are 2 very basic but sometime misunderstood factors. They are also the 2 most important, so let's look at them closer.
Light quantity
Light quantity is the most directly correlated factor to biomass yields. Photosynthesis is a quantum process, and can be quantified on a photon bases. There are three ways of measuring and testing light quantity.
PPF(photosynthetic photon flux)- is the unit of measurement that shows the total output of a lamp or light source. It is a measurement in µmols/sec of photons emitted by the source. It is a very useful figure because it shows the ability and/or possibility of the lamps capability.
Average PPFD(photosynthetic photon flux density)— As we have said before, it is the relationship between light and plants that makes up a grow light, and grow space is a one of the most essential factors. 1 sq meter is the area unit which studies and scientist have standardized for the measurement unit PPFD. The "D" signify density, meaning how much PPF per area(1m^2). Studies of many varieties of plants have determined that 700-1000µmols/m^2 average is the optimal range for higher light crops. The PPF(total output) of the lamp ÷ by the area in m^2 will give you the average PPFD of the area based on the PPF available. In the case of the CX300, with a PPF of 720µmols, and a coverage area of 3'x3′(.836m^2) we get 720÷.836127=~861µmols/m^2/sec.
Instantaneous PPFD(PAR meters)- Many people have seen instantaneous PPFD readings from tools like PAR meters. These are very useful to see how light is distributed and to check direct intensity levels relative to plant growth. How ever they do not tell the PPF of the lamp, or a true average PPFD of the entire canopy. They are only an extrapolated square meter figures based on that single point in space. As one single measurement these meters can be very misleading, especially with LEDs and their target beams. But when used as a network of instantaneous data points, we can see how well a lamp or source is covering an area and at what intensity.
Light quality
A better known form of light quality is spectrum. Spectrum is the essentially the colors of light that are emitted from a source. Different colors are made by photons at certain energy levels and are broken down into nanometers(nm's). When it comes to photosynthesis, the differences in the nm of a photon, or it's color, changes it's potential effectiveness to drive photosynthesis. This was shown by Dr. McCree in 1972, when he studied and averaged 22 different species of both indoor and field grown plants with their carbon fixation in response to different wavelengths of light. When graphed for every nm in the spectrums range(320nm -780nm), we get what is known the McCree Relative Quantum Efficiency curve, or RQE. To this day, is the only scientifically accepted "action spectrum"
Notice that there is no extreme differences across the range as some are lead to believe. Though red and blue nm's are driving forces in photosynthesis and physiological development, they are no way the only useful or necessary nm's for maximum physiological expression and biomass yields. A full and targeted spectrum is needed so that photosynthesis is maximized and that biological processes are triggered correctly.
© Pacific Light Concepts 2015
- Thread starter
- #1,167
Gratz on the chop 36 
- Thread starter
- #1,169
Probiotic Farming
No, here's one reason.. with HID the heat is vented away from the grow room, with LED the heat is ADDED to the grow room. I vent the grow room but I cannot get the heat out as efficiently with LED that I was able to do with HID. I've got a 450cfm fan going into a scrubber and 2 large room fans and 2 clip fans currently. Still pretty hot, much hotter than HID. This is really only an issue for summertime but still an issue non the less.
On a 95F outside air temp, in the grow room I'm running ~90F WITH AC on.. I'm going to most likely wind down my grow for the summer for heat reasons OR I may switch to HID for the summer.
I'm just not totally in agreement that LED is more efficient with heat - there's more to it that light broadcast efficiency, we need to take into account the power supply efficiency. Remember the power supplies are actually in the room with the ladies with HID the power supply is not and my PSU for the HID is WAY cooler when running which = more efficient.
So my thought is that the HID digital ballast IS more efficient than the PSU in the LED lights BUT the bulbs in the LED lights are more efficient than the bulbs in the HID units.
Cumulatively which creates the most heat for a given amount of light is the question. I don't think the answer to this is as clear and LED manufacturers are leading us to believe.
BrixKlinger
New Member
FWIW not everyone with HID runs vented hoods.
I'd go so far as to say a large percentage don't.
I'd go so far as to say a large percentage don't.
But an HID with a good vented hood is still less expensive than a comparable LED panel.
LED manufacturers should update their enclosures to allow for venting.
LED manufacturers should update their enclosures to allow for venting.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
I feel like that would open up the lights to electrical issues, what with condensation and what not that could build up in a tent.
- Thread starter
- #1,174
We called that a bomber, back in the day.
Well, back in my day , none of us had the cash to roll like that! So we never did.
Most of the rolling was done in side cars and vans, out cruisin for girls. Cheers eh.
Most of the rolling was done in side cars and vans, out cruisin for girls. Cheers eh.- Thread starter
- #1,178
For some reason when I was younger, the only time I would roll joints was after a basketball game, on the dash of my little truck, for the ride home. For the most part I was a pipe on the road bongs at home kinda guy. The more I've met people, the more I've smoked joints, and since I've been growing, I love rolling a fatty.
There you go. I look forward to having something to store in my jar again. Nice joint 36.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
You might as well!