300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I've been happy with the Pure Power Plant we're growing - it vegged and cloned well, hope it flowers well too! ;)
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Sweet grow lab!Thanks for doing this.


Can I nitpick?

To me a true test would include the heat from the hid ballast inside the tent, since the LED power supply is inside the unit and tent. if led's had external power supply/ ballast outside the grow tent then the lumatek could similarly be left out of the equation.

Again just nitpicking...
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

thanks SnowBender!

Of course you can nitpick, it's even encouraged ;)

To this:

"if LED's had external power supply/ballast outside the grow tent, then the lumatek could similarly be left out of the equation"

I would say:

if frogs had wings they wouldn't get their asses wet

;)

meaning that my approach to this comparison is to allow both technologies to rest on their merits and weaknesses, and to try to use them in the manner most end-users would use them.

To me, that makes the comparison "truer" than trying to set the lights up identically to the degree you mention.

I did my best to try to run the HID tent without air-cooling, but that was impossible, so peeps should take note that I had to take extra measures in that tent to even make this comparison possible in the summer.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I did my best to try to run the HID tent without air-cooling, but that was impossible, so peeps should take note that I had to take extra measures in that tent to even make this comparison possible in the summer.
Click to expand...

so,,, approx... how much extra $$$ is spent on the cooling of the HID? Since the LED is so much more expensive,, I am sure people do not factor the cooling cost in on the HID side,, having the approx cost of that would help give a truer comparison on cost... wouldn't it?
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Setting Sun said:
Here's a pic of the light I took tonight. If anyone needs a pic with the LED's off, let me know.

P1000822.JPG
Click to expand...

SS if you don't mind can you look for this.......>The end two rows of my GLH 300w light have spots were led's should or could go in each of the end two rows. The board has actual perforated holes for the led's but know led's in the holes... The holes on my board are not punched out....But one could punch them out if they wanted to and put two more rows of led's in the unit, one row on each end...

The 3/4 space on the ends is aprox what I have.. But if I look closely (with the light out) I see the perforated holes on each side.. Sorry to bug you my friend, I'm just looking to see if you have an updated light and an explanation as to why your light pulls 20 more watts then mine....

I also checked my light again last night.... I saw 359w once, but for the most part it read 362w

We will get to the bottom of this....LOL
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

just out of curiosity,, could the fans be different in the units? maybe one has a more powerful one for cooling? maybe an upgrade in a newer model/design? just a thought....
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I'm no electrician but, could the size of the wires or quality of the soldered connections or something like that be the cause for the discrepancy?
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Thanks for the pics SS. Much appreciated. Plants look good too!

dogsnova said:
I also checked my light again last night.... I saw 359w once, but for the most part it read 362w

We will get to the bottom of this....LOL
Click to expand...

Hey dn, can you look at the voltage and amp readings on your light and post them also? That's the final piece to the puzzle. Thanks bro! ;)

-TL
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Herb Zen said:
aaawwww... babies are so cute :Hookah:

SS,, how did you get that pic, without it totally blinding you/camera? I tried to take a pic once of my 90w ufo, and just got a big purple blur.. lol
Click to expand...

Nothing special really. Just pointed the camera up from below and took the pic.

Many cameras have a lot of trouble with LED lighting, but the cameras I use are flexible enough to allow me to adjust the exposure and white balance so that I can still take good pics.

OBXGardener said:
I've been happy with the Pure Power Plant we're growing - it vegged and cloned well, hope it flowers well too! ;)
Click to expand...

Are they from Nirvana beans?

Good to hear that it clones well because I had read that PPP clones usually take about a week longer to root than average.

I'm really a bit burned out on indicas right now, so really looking forward to smoking a more cerebral strain like PPP.

thanks for the info OBX!


Herb Zen said:
so,,, approx... how much extra $$$ is spent on the cooling of the HID? Since the LED is so much more expensive,, I am sure people do not factor the cooling cost in on the HID side,, having the approx cost of that would help give a truer comparison on cost... wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

Let's see....................

Glass to seal hood: $22.00
6" ducting: $24.00
additional hose clamps: $5.00
4" to 6" adapters: $15.00 (I needed these, but most peeps probably wouldn't)

so, the total to upgrade my HID tent to air-cooled was around $66.00.





Herb Zen said:
just out of curiosity,, could the fans be different in the units? maybe one has a more powerful one for cooling? maybe an upgrade in a newer model/design? just a thought....
Click to expand...

that's one possibility.

dogsnova said:
SS if you don't mind can you look for this.......>The end two rows of my GLH 300w light have spots were led's should or could go in each of the end two rows. The board has actual perforated holes for the led's but know led's in the holes... The holes on my board are not punched out....But one could punch them out if they wanted to and put two more rows of led's in the unit, one row on each end...

The 3/4 space on the ends is aprox what I have.. But if I look closely (with the light out) I see the perforated holes on each side.. Sorry to bug you my friend, I'm just looking to see if you have an updated light and an explanation as to why your light pulls 20 more watts then mine....

I also checked my light again last night.... I saw 359w once, but for the most part it read 362w

We will get to the bottom of this....LOL
Click to expand...


I'll check the board carefully tonight for what you're describing and try to take a pic with the light off and post it.

no problem my friend ;)
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

420warrior said:
I'm no electrician but, could the size of the wires or quality of the soldered connections or something like that be the cause for the discrepancy?
Click to expand...

There's lots of variables and things that could cause the difference, but looks like we almost got it figured out.

The Lurker said:
Thanks for the pics SS. Much appreciated. Plants look good too!
Click to expand...

you're welcome, and thanks!




dogsnova said:
Will do... And a pic too if SS don't mind
Click to expand...

Don't mind at all. Please do. I'm curious about this also.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

420warrior said:
I'm no electrician but, could the size of the wires or quality of the soldered connections or something like that be the cause for the discrepancy?
Click to expand...

It would depend on how the watt meter is accomplishing it's measurements.
One way uses voltage and amperage in a mathematic formula, the other includes a measurement of resistance in the circuit.

Basically the wiring would only come into play if:
1. The meter is using a resistance based formula to calculate
-and-
2. There is any real difference in the wiring used for the devices in question.

While the household wiring would be a non-issue in two devices at the same location it might make a difference with devices in two different locations.

Also, two devices using two different type of extension cords (one copper / one aluminum or other conducter or different thickness of wire) "might" result in a small discrepancy.

A difference of less than 5 watts would be acceptable in this scenario.

If the difference is 20 watts between two devices in two locations which are supposed to be the same, the difference would have to be internal. I would guess there was some change in the circuitry between the two devices or change in the components used.

These LED light manufacturers are small operations depending on Chinese factories or self assembled lights using imported components. I wouldn't count on any level of "normality" between one device and the next in this case. If they were assembled by robots on an assembly line in a very hight tech / high spec factory you might see more of a baseline.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Setting Sun said:
To me, that makes the comparison "truer" than trying to set the lights up identically to the degree you mention.
Click to expand...

hmm. well your doing all the work, so you get to choose.

I guess id just love to see a HID with internal ballast compared to a same wattage LED. So the heat produced by each can be part of the comparison.

But im not buying one of each to run the test anytime soon..so ill just shut up and learn.:bong:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

dogsnova said:
I also checked my light again last night.... I saw 359w once, but for the most part it read 362w
Click to expand...

next time maybe check and see if the ambient temperatures are also different. electric components draw more or less depending on temp and humidity. (along with all the other factors mentioned.) Thats why laptop batteries never last as long as manufactures say, they test them under ideal atmospheric conditions, that never really occur in real world usage.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Ok I just got back from checking the wattage on my 300w GLH led unit..... Sorry I can't take pics, my daughter took my camera with her on vacation.

The best I can do is post the numbers for you guys sorry. The numbers were taken after the unit had been running for aprox 45 mins.....

Amps 2.92
Volts 113.1
Watts 361 to 365
Power Factor 98

I also counted the rows of led's... My unit has 22 rows of led's wide and 12 rows of led's deep. My unit could hold 24 rows of led's wide. I'm not sure why their not in there..

SS if your unit has 24 rows of led's wide then that explains the 20w difference for sure..
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

WarBux79 said:
You should include in the front page how many cycles the HPS and MH bulbs have on them.
Click to expand...

I agree and will edit it in when SS replies
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS, you mentioned you wore welding goggles to take pics of the LED with the lights on. Would you mind explaining the precautions one should use when working with both of these types of lights while they are on?
:thanks:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

This is going to be an awesome product comparison and I'm buckled in to ride this out till the end.

I will have to admit that I wasn't to stunned by the grow tent temps when comparing an air-cooled hid to an LED lamp. I have found that the worst heat is from air-pumps, ballast, fan motors etc that are in the general room along with the tent. The miscellaneous items tend to bring the overall room temp up if you don't actively cool it. The other big factor is properly exhausting the HID waste heat so that you are not paying to re-cool it during the summer months. This is where HIDs become prohibitive to smaller growers.

So far I'm giving a thumbs up for the LED light! (But I am bias as I so dearly want to see this tech expand and grow in popularity so that prices can start coming down.)

I'd love to see an Air-cooled HID vs LED bubble grow as I am very interested in the LEDs lower light penetration and fewer wavelengths and if it makes a difference in heating up a reservoir. IE does a HID light hanging over a tank of water heat the water faster then the same wattage LED. I have my guess but not the numbers.
 
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